What is Islam?

GeoffP said:
Wow. Nasty. I bet it would justify an attack by the Israelis.
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No there are no Muslims inside.
GeoffP said:
Hitler_portrait_crop.jpg
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Oh look some one mentioned the holocaust again, talk about milking the dead. :yawn:

So Hitler was a German Muslim?
 
Rather, someone mentioned a significant historical parallel. Those who disregard history are doomed to be...you.
 
James R said:
PsychoTropicPuppy:
There was no problem with the thread opener, and the thread was left open for some time. The problem came when SAM went from her original, innocent-sounding query, to her real agenda for the thread, which was to demonise Jews. In particular, she proposed that all Jews would hand over their own children to the Nazis to be killed in order to save their own skins, or something similar. At that point, I closed the thread, since SAM had turned it into an anti-semitic tirade.
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Lol, I really don't know why I got myself involved into that.. "curiosity killed the psychotropicpuppy"

Look, if my memory serves me well, she never said "all" but "some". To the other, it wasn't false, historically speaking. I wouldn't say that it's anti-Semitic. She may have been critical of a few things some Jews did, which doesn't really make it anti-Semitic. Though I must say that she doesn't seem to be in possession of a lot of empathy since she's been completely disregarding the psychological aspect of the Jews' situation.

No. Absolutely wrong.
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Well, from what I've observed it really did look that way. People entered this thread and from the first page on they were already kvetching and/or making sly remarks about how her thread and questions are offending, or referring to her anti-Semitic intentions which weren't at all present at that time, nor later on.
I'm not really here to defend, nor justify S.A.M., because she surpasses me by far in eloquence, and therefore can do it herself.
I just thought that the reason for the lock of this thread was uncalled for. I was really interested in seeing how individual Jews view their religion, and ethnic background, and how they identify themselves with it, etc. - the sole reason why I actually meddled with what others were discussing.


It's not unusual to concentrate on the actions of moderators in order to avoid examining the actual issue that led to the moderation in the first place. Criticism of moderators most often comes from those sympathetic to the moderated poster's position, for obvious reasons. Everybody has a cheer squad. Moderators have a hard job because it is impossible to please everybody. Nobody whose post is edited or deleted or whose thread is locked is every happy about it, because if they had believed their behaviour in posting the offensive material was unacceptable or unjustified they presumably would not have posted it in the first place.
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Eh, I'm not really trying to be critical of moderators. I'm just saying that they have the control over what can stay on this board and what not, but I also realise that they can't monitor everything, nor control every user's actions, and I know that people on here are rather outspoken so they'll come and b*tch about anything whether it was one of their posts that got deleted, or whether the length of their ban was justified or not, blah blah. I know all of this..
I just suggested, later on, that maybe it would be a good idea to employ a mod, who isn't particularly involved/interested in these topics, who would specifically monitor those.
 
Thanks for showing me the picture.
no_muslims.jpg


Now that I've seen it I can actually judge it. And honestly, this one is clearly hinting against Muslims.

First it informs us that they probably sell pork meat there. Okay, but right after that it says: "Safest Restaurant on Earth" which is then followed by "No Muslims Inside"
To me this sounds like that this restaurant is safe because there are no Muslims inside, i.e. no suicide bombers/terrorists. At least that's me trying to put myself into the shoes of a primitive-thinking person, who is strongly influenced by the anti-Muslim propaganda.
 
Glad you could see the context. Its why I always follow any news to its source. Context is very important.
 
Lucysnow said:
I don't have it anymore. Think of a restaurant sign that has a neon pig on it, the name of the restaurant suggests pork is the speciality. So they have the name and below in block letters, like you see at the movie theatre, was 'we don't serve muslims'.
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Saw the picture. It's clearly not made with good intentions.

If you know how Sam twists things then you know it is only a matter of time before she makes comments like the ones she had made. The whole topic is eventually diverted towards her agenda (israel, whatever flaw she can find in a jew, american imperialism, atheism (eg Israel beginning with atheist jews) etc. The topic wasn't sincere from the start because we already know what she thinks of jews. She wasn't asking a simple question and when the question was answered by spidergoat which is to say that jews believe in many different things, practice in many different ways, it didn't take long before she raised the Kapos and offering ones children to the nazis benefitting the nazis. If someone started a thread suggesting there was something wrong with muslims because they offer their children up for martyrdom, suicide bombing and the like she would be offended. If someone questioned their morality she would be offended. I understand why you think you need to defend her, I also used to defend her and thought everyone was just 'picking' on her because she was a muslim until I got to see it for myself, over and over and over again. People are hostile towards her bigotry not towards her. There are other muslims on this board who do not raise the red flag.
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I can't say that I "know" S.A.M., but from what I've seen she likes to play with other people's words and their mind (my guess anyway). I don't see where the topic was hinting insincerity. I actually had the impression that she was really interested in what some Jews had to say, until people came and started to go on a rant against S.A.M.'s intentions. I mean, I can say that I was really interested in this topic myself.
I told you to go back and see her comments in context. I didn't read it as if she was kidding. Where is the irony or humor in this comment exactly?
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I did. The irony lies within the fact that she did exactly what everyone expected her to do, or more like what everyone wanted her to do. But she made it safely, i.e. she pointed out that she's just referring to one individual, in this case GeoffP. Well, like I said previously.

We have had sharper tongues in this forum and believe me no one ever thought them a racist or bigot. I am not speculating that she hates jews I am saying she proves over and over that she hates jews. Why the obsession with them? Why say that Israel speaks for all Jews? Why start yet another upon another thread on jews?
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I don't know if she specifically hates Jews, but from what I've read she's advocating against Israelis.
You can ask her whatever you like but you won't get an honest answer if you get her to answer at all. She loves to avoid pointed questions by diverting the issue or by answering the question with another question.
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I kind of expected the part in bold.


_______

On a side note: I think I'll give this a rest, because I'm not particularly interested in dragging this out to the extent where I'd be involved in some Online Drama Llama. Just thought that it sucks that the thread got locked because of one individual who's not meeting up with the community's expectations.
 
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central belief of Islam is that there is only one God (Allah) and only He should be worshipped and Muhammed is His Messenger.

The Quran is the Holy Book which is the verbatim Word of Allah.

In order to learn about Islam one would have to read the Quran as well as ask questions about Islam to Muslims
 
SAM said:
Exactly and this is not just in this thread, but in most topics where I make mirror image arguments of arguments that are allowed to stand on sciforums.
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You have gone considerably beyond "mirror image", in many cases. And you don't appear to recognize that.

And while it is true - and noteworthy - that you are subjected to continual and IMHO illegitimate personal attacks, it is also true that you do not always argue in good faith, nor do you recognize in your own arguments the very aspects of others' arguments to which you most object.

You might attempt - as an exercise - to remove the two word phrase "the Jews" from your posting on any topic, and avoid similar references via "them" and "they". Just for a while.
waragainsterror said:
In order to learn about Islam one would have to read the Quran as well as ask questions about Islam to Muslims
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One can learn a great deal about Islam without reading a word of the Quran in any language - as with Judaism, Christianity, and any other holy book religions.

And this is a good thing - I doubt you would appreciate the impression an outsider gets of Islam merely by reading the Quran. The constant threatening and violent tone, the impression it leaves of a benighted and ugly people being hectored and herded by some kind of quasi-parental authority for their own good and his own ego-stuffing, is unfortunate.
 
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iceaura said:
nor do you recognize in your own arguments the very aspects of others' arguments to which you most object.

You might attempt - as an exercise - to remove the two word phrase "the Jews" from your posting on any topic, and avoid similar references via "them" and "they". Just for a while.
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What part of mirror image arguments is hard to comprehend?
 
SAM said:
What part of mirror image arguments is hard to comprehend?
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None. It's usually fairly easy to see when they are not being made, for example. At least, I would have thought so.
 
iceaura said:
None. It's usually fairly easy to see when they are not being made, for example. At least, I would have thought so.
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When was the last time you objected to the terms "the Muslims", "the Americans" "the atheists", "the Arabs", "the Christians" [or even the Xians] or the famous quoted "the "Palestinians""?
 
SAM said:
When was the last time you objected to the terms {1}"the Muslims", {2}"the Americans" {3}"the atheists", {4}"the Arabs", {5}"the Christians" [or even the Xians] or the famous quoted {6} "the "Palestinians""?
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I don't recall the exact two word phrases, but I have spoken to the problem they sometimes symptomise with 1,2,3, and 5, - especially 3, from you. 4 and 6 have been handled by others in threads involving me, but IIRC not by me in particular except indirectly in replying to people like Buffalo.

I don't object to the term "the Jews", btw. It's a fine and useful term. I just recommend that you avoid it for a while.
 
PsychoTropicPuppy said:
I did. The irony lies within the fact that she did exactly what everyone expected her to do, or more like what everyone wanted her to do. But she made it safely, i.e. she pointed out that she's just referring to one individual, in this case GeoffP.
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Well, not exactly, to be honest.
 
PsychoTropicPuppy:

On a side note: I think I'll give this a rest, because I'm not particularly interested in dragging this out to the extent where I'd be involved in some Online Drama Llama. Just thought that it sucks that the thread got locked because of one individual who's not meeting up with the community's expectations.[/QUOTE]

Really? Why would a muslim be inside of a pork serving restaurant unless they no longer practice their religion? If I have an all male gay gym and have a sign that says 'no women inside' would you also find that it didn't have good intentions?

She advocates against Israelis and all jews as she says that Israel speaks for all jews.

If she was interested in only what jews had to say then why didn't she take it to a jewish site and ask them?

Sam does what she wants to do and we have all learned what to expect because its always the same.
 
Well, it kinda depends on the facts of the case. Sam presents me constantly as despising muslims, whereas I'm actually critical of the involvement of the islamic religion in law, because it ends up badly for everyone else.
 
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