What if Eve had not eaten the apple?
- Thread starter Cris
- Start date
Trilairian
Registered Senior Member
Yes.
WHY GOD CREATED CHILDREN
(AND IN THE PROCESS GRANDCHILDREN)
To those of us who have children in our lives, whether they are our own,
grandchildren, nieces, nephews, or students...
here is something to make you chuckle.
Whenever your children are out of control, you can take comfort from the thought that even God's omnipotence did not extend to His own children.
After creating heaven and earth, God created Adam and Eve.
And the first thing he said was "DON'T ! "
"Don't what ? " Adam replied.
"Don't eat the forbidden fruit." God said.
"Forbidden fruit? We have forbidden fruit? Hey Eve..we have forbidden fruit !
"No Way! "
"Yes way ! "
"Do NOT eat the fruit ! " said God.
"Why ? "
"Because I am your Father and I said so ! " God replied, wondering why He hadn't stopped creation after making the elephants.
A few minutes later, God saw His children having an apple break and He was ticked !
"Didn't I tell you not to eat the fruit ? " God asked.
"Uh huh," Adam replied.
"Then why did you ? " said the Father.
"I don't know," said Eve.
"She started it ! " Adam said.
"Did not ! "
"Did too ! "
"DID NOT ! "
Having had it with the two of them, God's punishment was that Adam and Eve should have children of their own.
Thus the pattern was set and it has never changed.
BUT THERE IS REASSURANCE IN THE STORY !
If you have persistently and lovingly tried to give children wisdom and they haven't taken it, don't be hard on yourself.
If God had trouble raising children, what makes you think it would be a piece of cake for you ?
THINGS TO THINK ABOUT !
1. You spend the first two years of their life teaching them to walk and talk. Then you spend the next sixteen telling them to sit down and shut up.
2. Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your own children.
3. Mothers of teens now know why some animals eat their young.
4. Children seldom misquote you. In fact, they usually repeat word for word
what you shouldn't have said.
5. The main purpose of holding children's parties is to remind yourself that there are children more awful than your own.
6. We childproofed our homes, but they are still getting in.
ADVICE FOR THE DAY:
Be nice to your kids. They will choose your nursing home one day.
AND FINALLY:
IF YOU HAVE A LOT OF TENSION AND YOU GET A HEADACHE, DO WHAT IT SAYS ON THE ASPIRIN BOTTLE:
"TAKE TWO ASPIRIN" AND "KEEP AWAY FROM CHILDREN"!!!!!
(AND IN THE PROCESS GRANDCHILDREN)
To those of us who have children in our lives, whether they are our own,
grandchildren, nieces, nephews, or students...
here is something to make you chuckle.
Whenever your children are out of control, you can take comfort from the thought that even God's omnipotence did not extend to His own children.
After creating heaven and earth, God created Adam and Eve.
And the first thing he said was "DON'T ! "
"Don't what ? " Adam replied.
"Don't eat the forbidden fruit." God said.
"Forbidden fruit? We have forbidden fruit? Hey Eve..we have forbidden fruit !
"No Way! "
"Yes way ! "
"Do NOT eat the fruit ! " said God.
"Why ? "
"Because I am your Father and I said so ! " God replied, wondering why He hadn't stopped creation after making the elephants.
A few minutes later, God saw His children having an apple break and He was ticked !
"Didn't I tell you not to eat the fruit ? " God asked.
"Uh huh," Adam replied.
"Then why did you ? " said the Father.
"I don't know," said Eve.
"She started it ! " Adam said.
"Did not ! "
"Did too ! "
"DID NOT ! "
Having had it with the two of them, God's punishment was that Adam and Eve should have children of their own.
Thus the pattern was set and it has never changed.
BUT THERE IS REASSURANCE IN THE STORY !
If you have persistently and lovingly tried to give children wisdom and they haven't taken it, don't be hard on yourself.
If God had trouble raising children, what makes you think it would be a piece of cake for you ?
THINGS TO THINK ABOUT !
1. You spend the first two years of their life teaching them to walk and talk. Then you spend the next sixteen telling them to sit down and shut up.
2. Grandchildren are God's reward for not killing your own children.
3. Mothers of teens now know why some animals eat their young.
4. Children seldom misquote you. In fact, they usually repeat word for word
what you shouldn't have said.
5. The main purpose of holding children's parties is to remind yourself that there are children more awful than your own.
6. We childproofed our homes, but they are still getting in.
ADVICE FOR THE DAY:
Be nice to your kids. They will choose your nursing home one day.
AND FINALLY:
IF YOU HAVE A LOT OF TENSION AND YOU GET A HEADACHE, DO WHAT IT SAYS ON THE ASPIRIN BOTTLE:
"TAKE TWO ASPIRIN" AND "KEEP AWAY FROM CHILDREN"!!!!!
Trilarian,
Mormonism as we see here is largely and heavily based on A&E being literally true. And within the wider Christianity community there is a mixture of support. By demonstrating the nonsense of such myths we can continue to undermine the credibility of parasitic institutions like Christianity.
The justification for Christ and the salvation concept depend entirely on man's fall from grace begun by A&E. If the A&E story is not literally true then Christianity has no basis.
Mormonism as we see here is largely and heavily based on A&E being literally true. And within the wider Christianity community there is a mixture of support. By demonstrating the nonsense of such myths we can continue to undermine the credibility of parasitic institutions like Christianity.
Hi Jenyar,
Nice post.
In real practical terms most would need to leave the planet and expand into the rest of the galaxy and beyond which would become full eventually given eternal lifetimes. The bible doesn’t appear to mention space travel.
That raises another question – if we cannot die then would we need to breathe? Presumably God would provide adequate spacecraft which would never fail and he would provide suitable new Earthlike worlds for us to fill.
Nice post.
I’m not sure that I would, but if I was just limited to the garden only for eternity then there is only so many times I could do something an infinite number of times in one place before it became really repetitive, right?
Possibly because the bible gives no indication of anything else other than a garden paradise. Even descriptions of heaven, presumably our goal and greatest prize, is not clearly defined anywhere – it is left to our imagination. But why would there be any progression? If everything is provided, presumably God would discreetly clear away any excess excrement, all food would be provided in abundance, life would be eternal, and there would be no disease and no fear of death, and no struggle for survival – what then would be the purpose of doing anything?
What was man created to do?
But there would be no death and if we were to do as God commands and continue to multiply then the Earth would become wall-to-wall people in about 38 generations, or about 1 trillion people, and continuing to grow at an exponential rate.
In real practical terms most would need to leave the planet and expand into the rest of the galaxy and beyond which would become full eventually given eternal lifetimes. The bible doesn’t appear to mention space travel.
That raises another question – if we cannot die then would we need to breathe? Presumably God would provide adequate spacecraft which would never fail and he would provide suitable new Earthlike worlds for us to fill.
And that is good because? And, doing what?
Unlike the command to multiply in Eden it is not clear if people in heaven are meant to have sex.
That is somewhat like asking; "If I wasn't born how would the world be different?" Tough to answer such questions as there are so many possibilities including "me" just being born later - speculation reigns in these cases.Cris said:
I can't see where this is headed; the lack of current techonology is only to be expected from a primitive setting.
Not necessarily. They may have developed other forms of entertainment - why not? One may wonder though, because the sexual form of entertainment present in this our continually advancing technological society is arguably the most popular. When one approaches Christianity with a soley literal or soley symbolic view he will surely not address a significant portion of Christendom with his arguments.
No one can say for sure but one can always speculate. Eternal existence in this form perhaps?
Marlin,
From your web reference.
So which is it? The events did occur or they didn't?
You need the fall to have occurred to justify the salvation concept. This is essential to Mormonism and the rest of Christianity. The freewill disobedience of perfect humans, A&E, must be taken literally otherwise we must assume that God deliberately created people to be sinful from the outset, in which case he has no justification for punishing them and no justification for salvation or a Christ. We would have been sinful because of his design error.
From your web reference.
So which is it? The events did occur or they didn't?
You need the fall to have occurred to justify the salvation concept. This is essential to Mormonism and the rest of Christianity. The freewill disobedience of perfect humans, A&E, must be taken literally otherwise we must assume that God deliberately created people to be sinful from the outset, in which case he has no justification for punishing them and no justification for salvation or a Christ. We would have been sinful because of his design error.
Cris said:
I have to confess that I am not sure which are allegorical and which are true, other than the fact that the Fall of Man through Adam and Eve's transgression is taught as church doctrine (after all, it's in all of our scriptures). I think what the web page I referred you to is saying is, that Adam was not literally formed from dust, and Eve was not literally formed from Adam's rib, etc. The basic Fall doctrine is essential to Mormonism, you're correct. How much is allegorical? We are still awaiting further revelation, perhaps, on that subject.
I wouldn't say that it is relevant, as much as it is expedient--for you to know that you are digging a pit for your brothers to fall in. And inasmuch as you prepare this pit for them to fall in, you will be the one to fill it. As deep as you dig it, so also will be the fall.
You blaspheme precious truths revealed to us, for our salvation.
You blaspheme precious truths revealed to us, for our salvation.
Speculation reigns. For one who is "In Search of Immortality" you appear to have a lot of qualms about the whole subject. Your descriptions above may lead one to think that if we didn't "eat the fruit" then we'd have many more problems to solve and would be way further advanced in technology than we are today. After all, that's what drives techonological developments - the need to work around issues.Cris said:
We'd probably be the be way past birth control issues, we'd be fully utilising "alternative" energy sources and we'd have terraformed the planets we could, built "moon" bases on whichever moons we could, manipulated space-time (travel) and be on the continuous search for "new worlds and new civilizations", and to "boldly go" "where no man (or child)" in the present world will hope to go anytime soon.
Most likely we'd have mastered recycling techonologies so that air generation and nutrition wouldn't be a problem. Also, the universe is a big place. Infinite if I can recall? I guess it'd take an infinite number of humans to fill it... then it's expanding... I wonder if we could fill it.
Looking at it like that... I say we put our energies into building a time machine and going back to A&E's time. We tie them up and threaten to kill their asses if they dare eat that fruit - the world might be a place more to my techy tastes.
Vindicator,
Hi and welcome to sciforums.
My point though is that the issue shouldn't be speculative. If God were to have really existed and truly intended that the garden was to be perfect and permanent with perfect beings then those intentions and plans should be far more obvious than they are. The myth-makers really hadn't thought that through and merely wanted to get to the part when man becomes bad and hence justifies the punishment/reward style religions to follow.
Hi and welcome to sciforums.
LOL, well probably not. I somehow doubt that whether you lived or not would effect world events in such a dramatic manner as is claimed by the fall of A&E.
My point though is that the issue shouldn't be speculative. If God were to have really existed and truly intended that the garden was to be perfect and permanent with perfect beings then those intentions and plans should be far more obvious than they are. The myth-makers really hadn't thought that through and merely wanted to get to the part when man becomes bad and hence justifies the punishment/reward style religions to follow.
This is the history that is relevant to us. Father Adam and Mother Eve-- Fell by partaking of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. There is consequence to sin. And all things physical are a representation of what happens spiritually. This physical world dies. And in this same likeness, the spirit will fall and die when separated from God. God is the posessor of the keys of life and sustains all life. BUT it's predicated upon His law and His government.
Many things we experience on earth is a lesson, and truth, taught to us from God. Hence the fall of Adam and Eve affects us literally and is part of the consequence to sin, as well as a lesson to show us--where life came from. Who gave it to us. And what we must do--to perpetuate our own lives into eternity.
Many things we experience on earth is a lesson, and truth, taught to us from God. Hence the fall of Adam and Eve affects us literally and is part of the consequence to sin, as well as a lesson to show us--where life came from. Who gave it to us. And what we must do--to perpetuate our own lives into eternity.
So the only creation that can govern itself, is the offspring of God. Every other creation is governed by and obeys God perfectly. From the planets to the molecules and atoms that compose the universe.
However the only kingdom that a child of God can inherit outside of the government and laws of God, which are the laws of Eternity; the only kingdom that they can inherit is a kingdom of misery and endless torment. According to the misery and torment of satan who is the author of sin.
Because a universe of thought and potential is at our disposal, and only God can navigate us from our birth and into immortality and Eternal Life.
However the only kingdom that a child of God can inherit outside of the government and laws of God, which are the laws of Eternity; the only kingdom that they can inherit is a kingdom of misery and endless torment. According to the misery and torment of satan who is the author of sin.
Because a universe of thought and potential is at our disposal, and only God can navigate us from our birth and into immortality and Eternal Life.