What has god done for you

Wisdom_Seeker said:
But on the other hand, you will probably cause much suffering in this world, you will pay for that with your future suffering; you will suffer for yourself all the suffering you caused. If you kill yourself because you don´t want to pay for that, you are just making things worst, when you kill yourself, you will cause more suffering, and you will have to pay for that and every suffering you caused.
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Yes unless your causing suffering is what is necessary to balance karma. Say this man did something awful and deserved--even demanded--to be murdered, then you killing him is not an imbalance in karma, it is instead righting the wrong. Would you still be to blame for being the hand of Karmic justice?

It seems in this sense as though karma itself is a unstable and inexhaustible circle of meaningless retributions and rewards that ultimately cancel each other out and amount to no gain or progress of any kind.
 
Celpha Fiael said:
Yes unless your causing suffering is what is necessary to balance karma. Say this man did something awful and deserved--even demanded--to be murdered, then you killing him is not an imbalance in karma, it is instead righting the wrong. Would you still be to blame for being the hand of Karmic justice?
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There is no blame, you will just pay for the suffering you caused to others. You can pay it voluntarily or involuntarily. If you are "the hand of karmic justice", then you are interfering with another persons karma, and at the same time, causing your own future karma. If you kill, anyone, even if he wants to die, and you cause suffering because of that; you will pay for that suffering yourself.

Celpha Fiael said:
It seems in this sense as though karma itself is a unstable and inexhaustible circle of meaningless retributions and rewards that ultimately cancel each other out and amount to no gain or progress of any kind.
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The purpose of karma is for us to learn the energetic frequency of compassion. And yes, it is a circle of "retributions and rewards that ultimately cancel each other", and we can do it consciously by helping others with no expectation of reward.
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
There is no blame, you will just pay for the suffering you caused to others. You can pay it voluntarily or involuntarily. If you are "the hand of karmic justice", then you are interfering with another persons karma, and at the same time, causing your own future karma. If you kill, anyone, even if he wants to die, and you cause suffering because of that; you will pay for that suffering yourself.



The purpose of karma is for us to learn the energetic frequency of compassion. And yes, it is a circle of "retributions and rewards that ultimately cancel each other", and we can do it consciously by helping others with no expectation of reward.
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I would like to address your first sentence; somebody or something somewhere had to perform the first causation of suffering, tipping this balance of karma you propose. So the only way to reacquire that balance is to repay the karma with an equivalent deposit of "good" if I understand you rightly. I wonder, can the scale be tipped in the opposite direction? Say that first cause of suffering was instead a cause of pleasure, would suffering be needed to achieve a homeostasis?
 
Celpha Fiael said:
I would like to address your first sentence; somebody or something somewhere had to perform the first causation of suffering, tipping this balance of karma you propose. So the only way to reacquire that balance is to repay the karma with an equivalent deposit of "good" if I understand you rightly. I wonder, can the scale be tipped in the opposite direction? Say that first cause of suffering was instead a cause of pleasure, would suffering be needed to achieve a homeostasis?
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In karma, there is always a factor of divine forgiveness, this is very powerfull. Because thoughts also cause karma, and if you forgive the ones who caused you suffer, this will automatically ´cause a divine forgiveness of your past bad karma.

What do you think the following phrase means?
"Father....Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors." (Matthew 6:12)
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
In karma, there is always a factor of divine forgiveness, this is very powerfull. Because thoughts also cause karma, and if you forgive the ones who caused you suffer, this will automatically ´cause a divine forgiveness of your past bad karma.

What do you think the following phrase means?
"Father....Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors." (Matthew 6:12)
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That's all fine but you didn't answer my question really.
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
I didn´t really fully understand what you meant in :



A cause of suffering, and at the same time a cause of pleasure ...mm... Care to elaborate a little?
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Sure. Karma is all about a balance, correct? If you do harm, to that extent, you will receive it back; if you do good, to that extent you will receive it back. Now keep in mind, you've said yourself that this is a system that ultimately cancels itself out, achieving a kind of homeostasis or equilibrium. Having said that, isn't is possible for too much good to exist, and in consequence would demand suffering to compensate?
 
Celpha Fiael said:
Sure. Karma is all about a balance, correct? If you do harm, to that extent, you will receive it back; if you do good, to that extent you will receive it back. Now keep in mind, you've said yourself that this is a system that ultimately cancels itself out, achieving a kind of homeostasis or equilibrium. Having said that, isn't is possible for too much good to exist, and in consequence would demand suffering to compensate?
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The thing is, we are here because of our past karma, good or bad. If you get to the point were you have paid for your past karma, you will reach a level of consciousness on which you are able to choose to stay in "equilibrium"; or you can choose to reincarnate with the sole purpose of helping others, look what happened to Yeshua because he chose that second path.
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
The thing is, we are here because of our past karma, good or bad. If you get to the point were you have paid for your past karma, you will reach a level of consciousness on which you are able to choose to stay in "equilibrium"; or you can choose to reincarnate with the sole purpose of helping others, look what happened to Yeshua because he chose that second path.
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Right but this still doesn't answer my question. Just nevermind I guess.
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
In karma, there is always a factor of divine forgiveness, this is very powerfull. Because thoughts also cause karma, and if you forgive the ones who caused you suffer, this will automatically ´cause a divine forgiveness of your past bad karma.

What do you think the following phrase means? "Father....Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors." (Matthew 6:12)
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*************
M*W: I don't know why I'm still replying to your posts, but that quote in Matthew, "Father, forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors" is applicable in a bankruptcy.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
*************
M*W: I don't know why I'm still replying to your posts, but that quote in Matthew, "Father, forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors" is applicable in a bankruptcy.
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You are free to reply to my posts, even if you experience anger because of my annoyance :m: .
From that perspective, you say Jesus was asking God to forgive his financial debt to God... right, that makes sense; and Jesus could not possibly lend money, he had none, he had no capital to form a financial institution. On the other hand, Jesus did forgive everyone that insulted and misstreated him.
 
Wisdom_Seeker said:
You are free to reply to my posts, even if you experience anger because of my annoyance :m: . From that perspective, you say Jesus was asking God to forgive his financial debt to God... right, that makes sense; and Jesus could not possibly lend money, he had none, he had no capital to form a financial institution. On the other hand, Jesus did forgive everyone that insulted and misstreated him.
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*************
M*W: Why am I not surprised that you once again have misinterpreted something I have said? If I 'annoy' you, then put me on ignore or just don't bother answering. I think you misinterpret them on purpose just to be an ass.

I was NOT saying that 'Jesus was asking god to forgive his financial debt he owed to god.' Where does it say Jesus ever had a financial debt to god? If that has never been stated in the blibel or anywhere else, why would you interpret that to be what I said? My post has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus having money or not having money. It's not even about Jesus. The problem here is that you have Jesus on the brain, and that's where your misunderstanding comes into play.

My post was a joke. Just a joke. No ulterior motives intended.

Saying "Jesus forgives..." is like the song from the musical Annie, "The sun will come out... tomorrow... da da da di di da da da... tomorrow, tomorrow, the sun will come out... tomorrow... and it'll be a brand new day.....".

Sure, 'Jesus' forgives. The sun will come out tomorrow, no matter how bad we've been today.

But you say Jesus didn't have any money. I say he did. You know why? Because Jesus saves... and at today's prices, that's a miracle!
 
what has god done for me??

nothing, absolutly nothing, i did it all myself, i got what i have got all by myself, that way i dont have to say thankyou, to any sort of church organisation!!
 
I never said you were annoying M*W, if you read well, I said I was annoying.
Nevertheless, I now understand your "joke", lol.
 
SnakeLord said:
*
It was however to the person I responded to. If you don't think or claim that it's from another dimension then why respond to my quote that was a response to that direct claim?
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**
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing personal against make believe, personal desires, wishes and dreams and nor do I actually have issue with a claim that there are things we currently do not know exist that actually do - but if someone makes a claim to the existence of something, they need to show it to exist or have convincing evidence before I just accept it.
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***
I happen to have seen, and are friends with, Lenny the leprechaun, king of leprechauns.
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****
Are you saying you should accept that as true because I claim to have seen it? Of course not - you require the exact same things I do.
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*Well, I did say it was a tangent... I used your post as a touchpoint. And it did address the same issue, that of direct manifestation of matter, 'a thing', albiet from a different point of view.
**WTF?
It wasn't 'make believe' nor did I have any 'personal desire' surrounding the event.
As to proving it, true. I can't. Conversely, can you prove to me something that happened to you 26 years ago?
***About this: first off, I take this as a flip remark. However, if you assert that you are 100% sincere, I will at least entertain the concept. After a while, your integrity of intellect will become apparent, i.e. sane or crazy.
****See above...No wait, Lenny just told me that you...:D
 
About this: first off, I take this as a flip remark. However, if you assert that you are 100% sincere, I will at least entertain the concept. After a while, your integrity of intellect will become apparent, i.e. sane or crazy.
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I'm being sincere. My sister also knows him well.
 
A few pages ago, ok several, anyway I made a thing of the definition of atheist and that it is a position of belief.
Most/many folks "It simply means 'I don't believe in God.'"
Something like that, anyway.
The reason I was adamant in asking "Is this a positive: There is no God", or just: a lack of belief.
The general tone of the response was, "What difference does it make?".
Here's my point on that; If you ask me if I believe in god, I'd say: Yeah, something like that.

But (and it's a big butt) Do I believe in 'a time/space corporeal being that controls all of creation/the universe/collective acceptance like a conductor and sits in judgement of us, e.g. Jehovah or Allah'?
My responce is: I have no use for such a concept. If I had to answer Y/N I'd pick No, I don't believe in that.
Yet I an no atheist.

I will cede this; when I went to look up 'pantheism' in the dictionary on my 'puter my internal response was "Well, that's a limited definition".

Pascal's wager aside,:D I think all of existence, (trying to avoid the word 'creation') is imbued with spirit, the life force, Chi, prana. And so, has intrinsic or inherent value.
Nothing that is, is lifeless. And, Yes, I include rocks. Smash those atoms and SEE the life force/energy.;)
 
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