*************He uses nasty men, too. Anything he can to try to steal our joy.
M*W: Your "joy" is not worth stealing.
What caused you to turn away from your faith?
- Thread starter Acitnoids
- Start date
M*W: Your "joy" is not worth stealing.
Billy T,
Thank you for elaborating. I couldn't agree more.
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M*W,
The premise of this thread is to share why you did or did not turn away from your childhood faith. This should not be confused with questioning peoples motives behind their current belief system (there are plenty of other threads for that). Keeping that in mind, under which faith were you brought up and do you still practice it? You seem like a smart enough lady so how about staying on topic.
Thank you for elaborating. I couldn't agree more.
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M*W,
The premise of this thread is to share why you did or did not turn away from your childhood faith. This should not be confused with questioning peoples motives behind their current belief system (there are plenty of other threads for that). Keeping that in mind, under which faith were you brought up and do you still practice it? You seem like a smart enough lady so how about staying on topic.
*************
M*W: I'll stay on topic when you make everyone else stay on topic.
But, since the thread asks about the history of our faith, here's mine in a nut shell (no pun intended):
Prenatal: Atheist
Born: Atheist
Age: 1-5: Baptised Methodist, raised by hard shell Baptist grandmother
Age: 5-9: Parents Agnostic, I followed other kids to Primitive Baptist Church
Age: 9-17: Agnostic home. No mention of god or anything religious
Age: 17-21: Baptist University, but I hated it and still didn't believe
Age: 21-23: Agnostic
Age: 23-43: Embraced Roman Catholicism fervently. Confirmed RC
Age: 43-54: Started questioning theology. Priests wouldn't answer questions
Age: 54-??: Joined Sciforums. Got re-educated. Began to embrace Atheism
Age: ??-??: Confirmed atheist. I was born an atheist, and will die an atheist.
You quote dinosaur as stating: “An agnostic is a cowardly atheist.”
I don't think that is correct as the Atheist, like the religious, is sure of their beliefs, which are no more verifiable than the converse that God does exist.
I visited your link -Thought I might point this out there too and give my post 29's footnote argument for the doubting POV, but to post you need to join as an Atheist so that would be sort of self contradictory. I assume you are a member. If you think post 29 footnote interesting for them, please feel free to copy and post it there.
I am pleased to meet you, Medicine*Woman. IMHO, thread jacking is a noble hobby, though I have had an e - finger shaken at me recently by the thread police for merely saying that.
Anyways, to answer your question, he was resident in my wife's uterus listening to me read a Group Algebra text from a graduate math class to him. It has not helped his high school math grades out much though......
He also kicked a bit and did other unborn child type stuff that I couldn't see. He does a lot more stuff now though.We got kicked out of church when he was just a couple of months old. He is an atheist, as am I. No ghost in the machine, no god, no soul, no angels or devils, WYSIWYG, once than done, like an old dot matrix printer ribbon.
Tip of the hat to Sandy for 'her' online persona - well played!
Actinoids, the premise of the title and thread is slightly misleading.
It's like, "is the glass half empty or half full?"
You ask why people "turned away" from the faith.
That wording specifically implies that the faith is real and yet lost minds turn away from it.
You might consider having the title changed to a much more neutral position, such as, "Why do you lack faith in divine beliefs?" or something, if you wish to hold a serious topic.
The title immediately puts a person who does not believe in the divine on the defensive.
I disagree unless of course you consider the OP of any thread to be an inconsequential formality. The first paragraph of the OP (all three sentences of it) clearly specifies the topic to be discussed.
What?!? That's quite an assumption. You thought I was saying that the faith is real and yet lost minds turn away from it? What?!? Where did you get that idea from?
The current title makes more sense. Look, none of us had a choice in which faith we would be born into. (The rule in my family was, "If you live under my roof then you have to go to church." This is probably why I moved out the day after graduating highschool.) But at some point in our lives we made a conscious decision to either embrace our parents faith or turn away from it. That is my inquiry. No offence but, I could care less about your current faith or lack there of. You can't get more neutral than that. As I like to say, "To me it's just a half glass of whatever."
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Being that you decided to join in ... how would you answer the questions found in the OP?
In earlier post I said "eduction" caused me to drop my indoctrinated beliefs, and that is the main reason but there was another that operated subconsciously to make me hate church:
Both my parents smoked -essentially chain smokers. My step mother would have done her hair up shortly before we got in the car and I was not allowed to open any window as that could mess it up. To this day, I do not like to ride in a car with the windows entirely closed. I don't recall being conscious of it at the time, but I am sure I must have hated just going to church. Like Pavlov's dogs I was conditioned not to like church.
Thank God or "what ever powers may be" we were too poor for her to have hair spray or it did not yet exist.
Both my parents smoked -essentially chain smokers. My step mother would have done her hair up shortly before we got in the car and I was not allowed to open any window as that could mess it up. To this day, I do not like to ride in a car with the windows entirely closed. I don't recall being conscious of it at the time, but I am sure I must have hated just going to church. Like Pavlov's dogs I was conditioned not to like church.
Thank God or "what ever powers may be" we were too poor for her to have hair spray or it did not yet exist.
From how it was worded. As I explained clearly in my post in which I did not accuse you in the least of doing it intentionally.
It was merely a suggestion. If you don't like it- that is fine.
You can either be defensive... Or be self aware enough to consider whether or not my point had merit.
:shrug:
I answerd in the post where I seconded "Education."
I was born to christian parents, christened, and attended christian schools. My family never attended church, I only went with the school, and that wasn't very often.
I never really believed in god. None of the claims about god made any sense to me, I always had questions. None of the believers I spoke to were convincing, and many were downright hypocrites.
Two of the kids I went to school with went to Sunday school, and would always tell us what they were taught at school afterwards. I couldn't believe the crap they were fed, the apologetic watered down half truths adults tell to children to get them onboard astounded me. The fact these kids were bright, but swallowed that stuff, and didn't question it bothered me. There were always questions, but they never had an answers, and when I asked them, they avoided answering, and always changed the subject.
Seems christian methodologies haven't changed, and now, as an adult, I still have yet to meet an honest christian.
So that makes me an atheist. I never was a believer, and I'm still not.
I never really believed in god. None of the claims about god made any sense to me, I always had questions. None of the believers I spoke to were convincing, and many were downright hypocrites.
Two of the kids I went to school with went to Sunday school, and would always tell us what they were taught at school afterwards. I couldn't believe the crap they were fed, the apologetic watered down half truths adults tell to children to get them onboard astounded me. The fact these kids were bright, but swallowed that stuff, and didn't question it bothered me. There were always questions, but they never had an answers, and when I asked them, they avoided answering, and always changed the subject.
Seems christian methodologies haven't changed, and now, as an adult, I still have yet to meet an honest christian.
So that makes me an atheist. I never was a believer, and I'm still not.
As well know, atheism is a lack of belief. The only thing I am sure of, is my lack of a belief.
Agnosticism is often the word atheists use to refer themselves, because they think declaring themselves an atheist could be confrontational. That is a bit cowardly.
If however, they are real agnostics, and are making a statement about epistemology, well, that's pure folly. It's a definite statement about something esoteric, and there is no evidence to back up the position. It's as groundless as faith.
Some may say that being an agnostic means you are skeptical about the existance of God. That person is an atheist. You either believe, or you don't, there is no midground.
I dislike the term agnostic. I think it's vague, cowardly, and unscientific.
Shrews stealing your joy, Mexicans stealing your jobs, but you think you are happy 'Sandy'?
You complain a lot for a happy person.
You're confused phlog. Atheism is the belief that there is no god. In other words, you're just as irrational as everybody else.
Don't be so sure...
Wikipedia definition of the word:
It says Atheism is not a belief; it is the “absence” of belief.
dictionary.com adds “doctrine” and “disbelief” alongside belief:
Oxford dictionary, however, support your claim:
I think these perspectives are the result of different individual perceptions of atheists. But I also suspect that some of the definitions, especially the ones claiming Atheism is a belief system, are the attempts of believers trying to impose their delusional mental state to non-believers.
To Baftan:
The agnostic says that he does not know if God exists or not.
The atheist does not have this doubt. He states that God does not exist.
Those are the facts. It is really of no consequence whether or not you want to say the atheist holds a "belief" or not. Some dictionaries may use the word "belief" when describing the atheist’s POV and other may not. So what?
There is a very definite difference between these two positions and it has nothing to do with courage. It has to do with doubt or not. It is false to assume the agnostic is just a cowardly atheist.* In most cases, mine certainly, the agnostic is just more cautious about making claims he cannot defend with evidence. If forced to bet, I would go with atheist POV as in general I tend not to accept the existence of things for which I know of no evidence.
For example, I tend to think unicorns do not exist, but it is quite possible that on some distant planet in this vast universe unicorns are currently pulling plows for some farmer. It is nearly impossible outside of math, to prove the non-existence of anything (unicorns or God) so I am an agnostic.
The older I get, the less I know for sure. Long ago, when I was 20, I knew a lot.
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* I will, however admit that in a religious dominated culture, many atheists may keep still, or claim to be agnostics if forced to explain their lack of participation in religious activities.
The agnostic says that he does not know if God exists or not.
The atheist does not have this doubt. He states that God does not exist.
Those are the facts. It is really of no consequence whether or not you want to say the atheist holds a "belief" or not. Some dictionaries may use the word "belief" when describing the atheist’s POV and other may not. So what?
There is a very definite difference between these two positions and it has nothing to do with courage. It has to do with doubt or not. It is false to assume the agnostic is just a cowardly atheist.* In most cases, mine certainly, the agnostic is just more cautious about making claims he cannot defend with evidence. If forced to bet, I would go with atheist POV as in general I tend not to accept the existence of things for which I know of no evidence.
For example, I tend to think unicorns do not exist, but it is quite possible that on some distant planet in this vast universe unicorns are currently pulling plows for some farmer. It is nearly impossible outside of math, to prove the non-existence of anything (unicorns or God) so I am an agnostic.
The older I get, the less I know for sure. Long ago, when I was 20, I knew a lot.
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* I will, however admit that in a religious dominated culture, many atheists may keep still, or claim to be agnostics if forced to explain their lack of participation in religious activities.
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No Billy. An atheist makes no such statement. I don't believe in god, like I don't collect stamps. I do not deny the existence of stamps, or the existence of stamp collectors. Atheism means I just don't believe in anybody else's god(s).