What am I?

[(Q)]

I resolve to live my life with Faith, Faith believes that God is and Hope trusts that He is truly wise and good.

If this were my religion what religion would I be?

You've not described a religion. All you've done is list that which was put into practice through social interaction long before religions were contrived.

So, why would you resolve to live a life of faith when faith has nothing to do with how you choose to live?

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Hi Crunchy,

Thank you for your comments, but I am not personally sure that the “ego” has the ability to heal a completely debilitating bone and cartilage back problem overnight.

Hi Seti,

You are correct, the ego can't do that (although I've seen evidence that a positive attitude can keep the body less stressed and it can focus its efforts better).

That is what happened to my own father over forty years ago and he has never had a back problem since that night. The doctors had given up on him. Sorry, but that is a reality in my life that I just can’t quite easily ignore. My dad is a witness to me of the healing hand of God every time I see him up walking or even dancing around.

Thats really cool, tell me about all the gory details of the events. Sounds fascinating.

So, I guess I would ask you, how you know there is no God? That is a fairly difficult, if not impossible thing to prove.

To put it as simply as I can, most religions assert the existence of one or more life forms called 'God(s)' that is/are presently alive and created our universe using pure will.

To date no evidence supporting the existence of a 'God' has been found and reality has repeatedly contradicted the claims of 'God' (science being the #1 process to find those contradictions). Genesis and the process of evolution would be an example.

 

[(Q)]

Thank you for your comments, but I am not personally sure that the “ego” has the ability to heal a completely debilitating bone and cartilage back problem overnight. That is what happened to my own father over forty years ago and he has never had a back problem since that night. The doctors had given up on him. Sorry, but that is a reality in my life that I just can’t quite easily ignore. My dad is a witness to me of the healing hand of God every time I see him up walking or even dancing around.

Not that I'm having a hard time believing you, but could you explain how it is you know for a fact the "hand of god" had anything to do with your fathers back?

So, I guess I would ask you, how you know there is no God? That is a fairly difficult, if not impossible thing to prove.

Or more precisely, an impossible thing to prove a god exists, don't ya think?

 

[Adstar]

Proverbs 20:30 (NIV)
30 Blows and wounds cleanse away evil,
and beatings purge the inmost being.

I do not agree with this "truth"! Do you? If you agree with it, how should we implement this "wise proverb" to cleanse the world of evil? Should the church adopt this practice and use it against its own "evil" people (that would be all of us)? I think it has actually done this in the past, by the way. Or should we use it only for "evil" people outside the church instead?

In my opinion, we must surely not do any of these wretched things because it is a false and evil statement to begin with. This is called physical abuse! And this is immoral.

Best Wishes!

Hi SetiAlpha6

I agree with physical discipline when a child is misbehaving. So yes giving a kid a smack is good. It teaches the child that there are painful consequences to doing wrong. Of course the PC society of today has gone the other way and now the fruit of their doctrine are growing up to be irresponsible and often violent young adults. The school system sends young men out into the world who cannot read because they where never disciplined and just did what they wanted to. No one wants to be a teacher anymore because of the abuse and violence now happening in schools.

So yes i agree with corporal punishment. A child should be smacked when it is refusing to do as it is told and is being bad. Of course i do not agree with child bashing and abuse. These are two different things. It is sad that society in general cannot find the middle path on this. It is no surprise to me that is a society that has gone crazy with laws against disciplining ones child there is a huge increase in very violent child abuse both physical abuse and sexual abuse. Woe to this society it is going mad in its extremes.

But having said all this SetiAlpha6 this disagreement with the Word of God does not prove or disprove the existence of God. It just shows your disagreement with God.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[ellion]

i think it shows his disagreement with a book.

SetiAlpha would this be your dilemma:
do i trust my own experience and seek to enhance my relationship with god on my own terms.
or:
do i trust what is written in the bible and prescribed by the church despite the contradiction with my own experience and the deterioration of my relationship with god that would result.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

But having said all this SetiAlpha6 this disagreement with the Word of God does not prove or disprove the existence of God. It just shows your disagreement with God.

Proverbs 20:30 (NIV)
30 Blows and wounds cleanse away evil,
and beatings purge the inmost being.

Thank you for clarifying your own personal position on this passage of scripture. I understand your concerns and I agree with you that sometimes spankings, which leave no real injury and only cause a little temporary pain, can be necessary and even beneficial to discipline a child.

But, for me to agree fully with this exact scripture, I would have to be willing to carry out exactly what it actually says. I would have to physically hit my children with “blows” enough to cause “wounds”. I might also have to be willing to call these spankings “beatings” in describing to others what I do to my own children. Are you willing to describe a spanking in this way to your friends at church or the police? Surely, what you describe as spankings are not what this verse describes at all. In my opinion, it describes something far worse. To me, it really does describe physical abuse, not a mere spanking, even if that is what we want to believe it says.

Unfortunately there is more, and it gets even worse. Much worse! Here are some more warm and fuzzy loving family values from the Bible. These verses command the killing of your own children.

Exodus 21 (NIV)
15"He who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

Leviticus 20:9 (NIV)
9 " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (NIV)
18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10 (NIV)
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

This next one shows how far and severe you can go in beating your slave before you are punished. You can clearly beat your slave, with a rod, not the palm of your hand, so hard and so many times that she cannot even stand up for two days. Now how is that for a little spanking?

Exodus 21 (NIV)
20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

Adstar, surely you have enough personal love for your own family, character, integrity, honor, and morals to cause you to take a stand against the ideas presented in these verses, don’t you? If you agree with these then you must also be willing to carry them out. Are you? “Your hand must be the first in putting him to death” and you must “Show him no pity” (Deuteronomy 13:8 & 9). Surely, you cannot really believe that this is good and righteous, can you? Well, anyway I cannot and I do not!

Best Wishes to You My Friend!

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Not that I'm having a hard time believing you, but could you explain how it is you know for a fact the "hand of god" had anything to do with your fathers back?

Hi Q! I do not really expect anyone else to believe what happened to my Dad. All I can say is that I know the character of my Dad. I know that for weeks he had a very real physical back problem, he prayed to God in desperation for a healing, in the middle of the night he felt something like a hand touch his back, and immediately after that he got up out of bed completely healed, and he has never had that same problem again. It was a very personal experience for him. No one else will ever be able to really fully believe what happened. You do not need to believe me. I understand that reason and experience automatically make most people reject such a story. That is fine. That still does not necessitate that I reject the reality of what happened to him just because I may not understand it. Thanks!

Or more precisely, an impossible thing to prove a god exists, don't ya think?

I agree with you Q. Thanks for making this point. Last time I checked, it is still impossible to prove absolutely that God either does or does not exist. Thanks!

 

[SetiAlpha6]

i think it shows his disagreement with a book.

SetiAlpha would this be your dilemma:
do i trust my own experience and seek to enhance my relationship with god on my own terms.
or:
do i trust what is written in the bible and prescribed by the church despite the contradiction with my own experience and the deterioration of my relationship with god that would result.

Thanks ellion, you nailed my current dilemma almost exactly.

 

[(Q)]

I know that for weeks he had a very real physical back problem, he prayed to God in desperation for a healing, in the middle of the night he felt something like a hand touch his back, and immediately after that he got up out of bed completely healed, and he has never had that same problem again.

Funny how a god would miraculously heal your father's back due to a prayer, but won't help feed 17,000 children who die of starvation every day. The parents of those children pray too.

God must consider your father one hell of an important man to ignore the starving children so he may take the time to mend a back.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

Hi Seti,

You are correct, the ego can't do that (although I've seen evidence that a positive attitude can keep the body less stressed and it can focus its efforts better).



Thats really cool, tell me about all the gory details of the events. Sounds fascinating.



To put it as simply as I can, most religions assert the existence of one or more life forms called 'God(s)' that is/are presently alive and created our universe using pure will.

To date no evidence supporting the existence of a 'God' has been found and reality has repeatedly contradicted the claims of 'God' (science being the #1 process to find those contradictions). Genesis and the process of evolution would be an example.

*bumpity bump*

 

[ellion]

CC

he probably sees through your pretense to be genuinely interested.

Thats really cool, tell me about all the gory details of the events. Sounds fascinating.

when i read that i thought, yeah. like CC has any interets in anything but ridiculing this guy. you cannot pretend to be open minded in one sentence when the rest of your posts show you ignorance and closed mindedness.

 

[ellion]

Thanks ellion, you nailed my current dilemma almost exactly.

in which cae i think your dilemma is not really a dilemma you know your true path. that is written in your heart. in your feelings for your children.

i am sure there are parts of the written word that do resonate deeply with your experience, then there are those bits which feel too wrong to be right.

if god is all that was and is and will be, if he is the one in whom we live and move and have our being, if god can reveal himself to you and relate to you intimately on a personal level, why does that god need a book to commune with you?

seek your answers in your soul

 

[Silas]

SetiAlpha6 - first of all, from your handle, it's evident that your true religion is.... Trekkism!

I resolve to love justice, to long for that which is right, to love mercy, to pity the suffering, to assist the weak, to forget wrongs and remember rights -- to love the truth, to be sincere, to utter honest words, to love liberty, to wage relentless war against slavery in all its forms, to love wife and family and friend, to make a happy home, to love the beauty in art, in nature, to cultivate the mind, to be familiar with the mighty thoughts that genius has expressed, the noble deeds of all the peoples of the world, to cultivate courage and cheerfulness, to make others happy, to fill life with the splendor of generous acts, the warmth of loving words, to discard error, to destroy prejudice, to receive new truths with gladness, to cultivate hope in others, to see the calm beyond the storm, the dawn beyond the night, to do the best that can be done and then to be resigned.

I resolve to live my life with Faith, Hope, and Love. Faith believes that God is and Hope trusts that He is truly wise and good. Those who have no shelter hope for a home. -- Hope builds their house and plants the flowers and fills the air with song. The sick and suffering hope for health. -- Hope gives them health and paints the roses in their cheeks. The lonely, the forsaken, hope for love. -- Hope brings the lover to their arms. They feel the kisses on their eager lips. The poor in tenements and huts, in spite of rags and hunger hope for wealth. -- Hope fills their thin and trembling hands with gold. I will Hope against hope that this poor old earth on which we now live, may still one day be a world without crime -- without hunger -- without hate -- without fear -- without a tear. The dying Hopes that death is but another birth, and Love leans above the pallid face and whispers, "We shall meet again." I will Hope that there is another life after this one. One that will bring peace and joy to all the children of men.

(I rewrote and personalized something that was originally written by Robert G. Ingersoll)

If this were my religion what religion would I be?

What is religion, though, to you? Is it a philosophy and way of life, or is it a set of rituals, coupled with a sense of community with fellow believers? If it's just a philosophy (plus belief in God) then there's no point in assigning a specific label. You believe in God and live your life according to Religion.

I'd like to disagree with Archie here:

From your original post, I would deem you a Deist with Humanist overtones. And probably a real nice guy.

He's not a Deist, since he derives hope of the love of a personal God. Well, that's a strict definition, I guess. And he's certainly not a Humanist. I've seen this before, the confusion between Humanism and Humanitarianism. Humanism has nothing to do with fellow feeling, or compassion or brotherhood or love. It has to do with celebrating the Human animal, and relying on Humanity's resources to solve its problems, and not putting trust in the spiritual or supernatural.

 

[Crunchy Cat]

CC

he probably sees through your pretense to be genuinely interested.


when i read that i thought, yeah. like CC has any interets in anything but ridiculing this guy. you cannot pretend to be open minded in one sentence when the rest of your posts show you ignorance and closed mindedness.

ellion, I'm really sorry that critical thinking and evidence are close minded and ignorant for you. Because you identify yourself as being part of the group whom you feel is ridiculed by me personally, I may never be able to influence your position because it's already pre-refused due to self-polarization.

What makes this even sadder, is that I am the easiest person in the world to influence. Fell free to take anything from the following list that you accept as existing and provide supporting evidence for it. It's the easiest and most effective way to influence me:

God
Spirits
Souls
Ghosts
Vampires
Werewolves
Ghouls
Telekenesis
Pyrokenesis
Clairvoyance
Telepathy

 

[SetiAlpha6]

Funny how a god would miraculously heal your father's back due to a prayer, but won't help feed 17,000 children who die of starvation every day. The parents of those children pray too.

Thanks Q, if that is your real name!
You have the basic logic of the problem clearly defined. I have thought the same thing on many different occasions. So by possibly all logical constructs that are conceivable it should not be and yet my dad walks today. For me it is both logically inconceivable and yet also undeniable. That is just me!

I have had to go through surgery even after praying for a healing. And one of my sons had a coarctation of the aorta. We prayed for him but he was not healed directly by God either. Why? I don't know! He was healed by the skill and dedication of a flesh and blood team of surgeons after thousands of years of human learning and probably millions of dollars of expense. I'm just glad I didn't have to pay for it all.

You can tell me that it dosen't work logically and I can even agree with you as long as you want. But to my dad it was real! To you, it probably could never of happened period. You probably do not want to open yourself up to being duped into believing something that never really happened. I respect you for that. You have every "reason" to be skeptical.

Thank you for trying to set me straight!

 

[ellion]

ellion, I'm really sorry that critical thinking and evidence are close minded and ignorant for you.

it is not critical thinking and evidence that i see as being closed minded and ignorant what i see as closed minded and ignorant is when you know that you are right and the other person is wrong even delusional when this knowledge is only based on your own reasoning, if you have no proof of existence and no proof of non-existence then it is closed minded to say that one is truer than the other, it has nothing to do with critical thinking it is simply ignorance.

Because you identify yourself as being part of the group whom you feel is ridiculed by me personally, I may never be able to influence your position because it's already pre-refused due to self-polarization.

not really i dont think you have ever ridiculed me, actually you are one of the more open minded of the closed minded of the forum, and it i dont think you are as bad as some of the others for ridiculing people.

with that post you made however it was obvious to me that you was not interested in how that guys back was healed you just wanted to see how delusional he was and maybe poke some fun. or could i be wrong would you be willing to accept or even warm to the idea, that the guy had his back healed by God. and you could listen to this without eveidence and based solely on a personal testimony.

i mean;

Thats really cool, tell me about all the gory details of the events. Sounds fascinating.

the sentence sounds so slimey to the context of the rest of the post which was your normal "critical thinking" CC

What makes this even sadder, is that I am the easiest person in the world to influence. Fell free to take anything from the following list that you accept as existing and provide supporting evidence for it. It's the easiest and most effective way to influence me:


God
Spirits
Souls
Ghosts
Vampires
Werewolves
Ghouls
Telekenesis
Pyrokenesis
Clairvoyance
Telepathy

i dont really need you to beleive in anything like this, you live your life and i live mine, if one day you get bitten by a vampire you will have all the proof you need, what would be nice is if we could share thoughts feelings and expereinces without fear of judgement criticism and ridicule. no your not as bad as the others, maybe i would like to influence you in this, listen to people try to understand what they are experiencing. life is fulll of mystery and wonder a genuine curiousity towarrds someone wtihout prejudgemet, will bring you more understanding and knowledge from them than a demand for evidence will bring you.

 

[(Q)]

So by possibly all logical constructs that are conceivable it should not be and yet my dad walks today. For me it is both logically inconceivable and yet also undeniable. That is just me!

You can tell me that it dosen't work logically and I can even agree with you as long as you want. But to my dad it was real!

Thank you for trying to set me straight!

But, it IS deniable that a god had anything to do with your dads condition, and yes, it IS you who refuses to deny it, and it is your dad.

You simply have failed to acknowledge and refused to accept any alternatives that could have naturally affected your dads back. You both jump to the conclusion that it was devine intervention.

It isn't a matter of logic, its a matter of both you and your dad WANTING to believe it was a god who healed your dads back, and nothing more.

 

[SetiAlpha6]

But, it IS deniable that a god had anything to do with your dads condition, and yes, it IS you who refuses to deny it, and it is your dad.

You simply have failed to acknowledge and refused to accept any alternatives that could have naturally affected your dads back. You both jump to the conclusion that it was devine intervention.

It isn't a matter of logic, its a matter of both you and your dad WANTING to believe it was a god who healed your dads back, and nothing more.

If the above is what you yourself "WANT" to believe to match your own view of this universe then there is no reason to argue with you about it. No evidence, personal testimony, or experience that conflicts with your own apparently materialistic world view will probably ever change your mind. It certainly "IS" deniable by you or anyone else or even my dad. I have never said I could prove it to you as a fact. It was a personal experience for him alone.

I would be interested if you could tell me what your own view of the universe is and what factual and absolute basis it is built on.

Thanks!

 

[Crunchy Cat]

it is not critical thinking and evidence that i see as being closed minded and ignorant what i see as closed minded and ignorant is when you know that you are right and the other person is wrong even delusional when this knowledge is only based on your own reasoning, if you have no proof of existence and no proof of non-existence then it is closed minded to say that one is truer than the other, it has nothing to do with critical thinking it is simply ignorance.

I don't know that the other person is wrong and there is nothing for me to be right about at this point. Sounds like I was pre-judged there.

Consequently, you are correct in that I have seen no evidence for the existence of 'God' and I have seen evidence against it's existence. The proof process doesn't work the way described. I could claim the zaboombafoo dimension exists and evidence for or against it won't be available, yet in the end I am just inventing pure fantasy and it doesn't really exist. In other words, the burden of evidence is on the claimer. If the claimer doesn't have it and is working on finding some through experimentation / observation then the claim can be called a 'hypothesis'. If enough supporting evidence is available then a theory can be modeled. If the core concept (not necessarily the details) are undeniably supported by the theory then you have a proof. 'God' is not even at a hypothetical stage, as none of it's claimers seem to even be trying to find evidence.

The 'God' idea has been around millenia (probably longer) and yet in all this time, no supporting evidence exists.

not really i dont think you have ever ridiculed me, actually you are one of the more open minded of the closed minded of the forum, and it i dont think you are as bad as some of the others for ridiculing people.

The diet cola of the close minded eh? The Devil Inside would get a kick out of that.

with that post you made however it was obvious to me that you was not interested in how that guys back was healed you just wanted to see how delusional he was and maybe poke some fun. or could i be wrong would you be willing to accept or even warm to the idea, that the guy had his back healed by God. and you could listen to this without eveidence and based solely on a personal testimony.

I am quite interested to know if the guys back is actually healed as well as the before and after details of the ailment at this point.

i mean;

the sentence sounds so slimey to the context of the rest of the post which was your normal "critical thinking" CC

That always happens when I find something attractive and get excited about it. I say "thats cool, gimme more" and because I am sharing an emotional state (which is not common on these forums) it gets interepreted as slimy.

i dont really need you to beleive in anything like this, you live your life and i live mine, if one day you get bitten by a vampire you will have all the proof you need, what would be nice is if we could share thoughts feelings and expereinces without fear of judgement criticism and ridicule. no your not as bad as the others, maybe i would like to influence you in this, listen to people try to understand what they are experiencing. life is fulll of mystery and wonder a genuine curiousity towarrds someone wtihout prejudgemet, will bring you more understanding and knowledge from them than a demand for evidence will bring you.

I agree that its good to have a place where people can share their thoughts, feelings, and experiences together without fear. A big part of that comes from being responsible for any conclusions/claims. Here is an example of irresponsibility:

* God healed my brother's HIV infection and I telekentically moved a glass across the table.

In this example a person asserted several observations:

- My brother's HIV infection went away.
- A glass moved across the table while I was concentrating on it.

And the person asserted four fantastic claims:

- 'God' exists
- 'God' performed a miracle
- 'Telekensis' exists
- I am telekenetic

That's going to attract ridicule. Now, if the original statement were asserted in a way like so:

* My brother's HIV infection went away without treatmenet and a glass moved across the table as I was concentrating on it.

Then it's a whole different ball game. The events were shared and no fantastic claims were made. Now people can ask questions, make observations, etc. There might not be any conclusion at the end of the tunnel due to absence of information. There might be a very real conclusion at the end of the tunnel based on the presence information.

 

[Adstar]

Proverbs 20:30 (NIV)
30 Blows and wounds cleanse away evil,
and beatings purge the inmost being.

Thank you for clarifying your own personal position on this passage of scripture. I understand your concerns and I agree with you that sometimes spankings, which leave no real injury and only cause a little temporary pain, can be necessary and even beneficial to discipline a child.

But, for me to agree fully with this exact scripture, I would have to be willing to carry out exactly what it actually says. I would have to physically hit my children with “blows” enough to cause “wounds”. I might also have to be willing to call these spankings “beatings” in describing to others what I do to my own children. Are you willing to describe a spanking in this way to your friends at church or the police? Surely, what you describe as spankings are not what this verse describes at all. In my opinion, it describes something far worse. To me, it really does describe physical abuse, not a mere spanking, even if that is what we want to believe it says.

Unfortunately there is more, and it gets even worse. Much worse! Here are some more warm and fuzzy loving family values from the Bible. These verses command the killing of your own children.

Exodus 21 (NIV)
15"He who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.
17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

Leviticus 20:9 (NIV)
9 " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (NIV)
18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10 (NIV)
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

This next one shows how far and severe you can go in beating your slave before you are punished. You can clearly beat your slave, with a rod, not the palm of your hand, so hard and so many times that she cannot even stand up for two days. Now how is that for a little spanking?

Exodus 21 (NIV)
20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

Adstar, surely you have enough personal love for your own family, character, integrity, honor, and morals to cause you to take a stand against the ideas presented in these verses, don’t you? If you agree with these then you must also be willing to carry them out. Are you? “Your hand must be the first in putting him to death” and you must “Show him no pity” (Deuteronomy 13:8 & 9). Surely, you cannot really believe that this is good and righteous, can you? Well, anyway I cannot and I do not!

Best Wishes to You My Friend!

The price of sin is death. Is it not? All the things dealt with in the scriptures you posted are sin, striking, cursing, and the rest; they still hold a death penalty, eternal death. Nothing has changed in that regard. Of course through Jesus we are told not to judge, so not we no longer carry out the death penalty. But discipline is still a good thing for kids. No matter what the governing authorities say.

Those who sin and have not obtained forgiveness through belief in the Messiah Jesus are under an eternal death penalty. That is the will of God, His will be done.
Ones agreement or disagreement with God makes no difference to the ultimate outcome. God is Just and has provided a way for our sins to be atoned for.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days