unification of abrahamic religions?

The Devil Inside said:
the point i was trying (badly, i might add) to make is that perhaps a unification could only happen if christianity returned to its roots?
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Its roots are in belief that JC is IT. In Islam Christ is a prophet, in Judaism Christ was a pain in the ass.- thats a joke...relax.

and if this isnt Comparative Religion thread then what is?
 
samcdkey said:
Thats an intriguing notion.

Being a Muslim, I would have to say, to me the easiest way would be if all the Prophets were recognised as such.

So the greatest change would be in Christianity, since Judaism and Islam are already pretty similar, in fact recognising the Prophet would make the Jews essentially Muslim (since thats the only major difference in faith).
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gee never heard that before.
 
The unifying things though, I think would be;

  • Faith
  • Faith in the existence of a God
  • A God that bestows eternal life in a heaven
  • A God that rewards good and punishes evil.
  • A God that informs humanity of what is good and evil via holy books. i.e. revealed scripture.
  • Belief that god sends Prophets into the world (just cant agree on which ones)
  • Belief in soul
  • Belief in the existence of a spiritual realm i.e. an unseen world of angels, jinn, demons, god.
  • Belief that the life to come is more important than the current life (with the exception of Jehovahs witnesses…. I think).
  • Belief that there should be one holy day of the week dedicated to God (just cant agree on which one).
  • Belief that unbelievers in the faith will receive some form of punishment.


That should be a start.....
 
mybreathyourlung said:
I think the most major problem especially coming from a Christian background is the issue between Jews and Christians concerning Jesus being the Messiah. The Christian faith certainly couldn't change on this issue, seeing that it's centered on Jesus being the son of God. The Jewish faith on the other hand isn't dictated around Jesus NOT being the Messiah, so that is part of their religion that COULD change, or, added upon, rather. But that all depends on how strong the case is that Jesus was in fact the son of God.
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Isn't the belief that the Messiah is coming one of the key elements of Judaism? Ani maamin beviat hamashiakh. A patient people, they are waiting, generation after generation after generation, for the glorious day when the messiah comes. When that happens they will explode into rejoicing and their holy books will be rewritten, amended, replaced, or maybe just vaporized in a magical beam of light as they go dancing off into the Promised Land with klezmer music all around and Gentiles weeping in shame for the way they treated them. The Entire World Will Change.

You think somebody can say to the Jews, "Sorry guys, the messiah was already here and you missed him. I'm so sorry about that big party you were planning. Oh by the way, I guess the world didn't really change that much after his arrival and departure, apparently you were wrong about that whole messiah thing. You're still the underdogs and quite a lot of humanity still hates you."

No, I don't think so!
The Devil Inside said:
I have been sitting and wondering this morning on the idea that perhaps the three major abrahamic faiths might be one day congealed into one religion.
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That seems to be at odds with their very nature. Christianity and Islam, and to a lesser extent Judaism, keep splintering into sects that squabble among themselves. I can't imagine what force it would take to reverse that and cause them to settle their differences. Mutual hatred is just part of the deal and if they can't find one of the other religions to hate, they just break up and start hating each other.

Within Christendom, first Catholics and Orthodox, then Protestants, then the Methodists vs. the Baptists, and now at least in my country the staid old Episcopalians are splitting off from their parent Anglicans with great animosity over whether to adopt 21st century attitudes about homosexuality.

Within Islam one hardly has to point out the hatred between Sunnis and Shiites, apparently over some incredible little nuance that happened more than a thousand years ago.

Orthodox Jews in Israel throw rocks at ambulances driven on the Sabbath by Unorthodox Jews.

The whole problem with Abrahamism is its stifling one-dimensional model of the rich and complex human spirit. Everything has to fall on a linear scale with Good at one end and Evil at the other--a binary system that looks like it was invented by a computer geek. People find a great complexity of competing spirits inside themselves, one day they're The Hunter and the next day The Healer, and the polytheistic religions gave them a model and a vocabulary to talk about it and make sense out of it. Abrahamism tells them to find their place on that little line and hope they're on the Good end of it, and they stay bewildered.

They end up so frustrated that they begin fighting among themselves over the best way to interpret that line because it provides no room to embrace the diversity within themselves, in their community, or in the world.

I suppose that would be all right except the rest of us always get caught in the crossfire.
 
The Devil Inside said:
the point i was trying (badly, i might add) to make is that perhaps a unification could only happen if christianity returned to its roots?
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Ah, I see. I agree, but I think this unification could only happen if all religions returned to their roots. But, as Fraggle Rocker said above, with all the different thoughts and ideas on different issues of all the denominations, for everyone to agree on just the simplicity of faith is highly unlikely.

It's kind of silly, how for most faiths they're united by one book, yet somehow so many people pick and choose and re-interpret what they want to suit their own needs.
 
mybreathyourlung said:
so many people pick and choose and re-interpret what they want to suit their own needs.
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Religion is all about interpretation.


And then you have the esoteric arguments - that religious writings are written deliberatley not to be taken at face value and have secret meanings that one has to be initiated into.


The higher paths of (at least eastern) religion always take the view that the highest truths are beyond; words, books, discourse and therefore intepretations.
 
Light Travelling said:
Religion is all about interpretation.


And then you have the esoteric arguments - that religious writings are written deliberatley not to be taken at face value and have secret meanings that one has to be initiated into.


The higher paths of (at least eastern) religion always take the view that the highest truths are beyond; words, books, discourse and therefore intepretations.
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I think for the majority of religious people it is more cultural and not about who is right and who is wrong. From my own experience with all the major religions this is the attraction.
 
John99 said:
I think for the majority of religious people it is more cultural and not about who is right and who is wrong. From my own experience with all the major religions this is the attraction.
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What about one culture with many religions?
 
John99 said:
That is what i am exposed to all the time.:shrug:

In your experience is religion more about tradition or steadfast belief.
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Both, tradition is what maintains it in society, but belief is what sustains it if you move.
 
samcdkey said:
Both, tradition is what maintains it in society, but belief is what sustains it if you move.
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The first part is entirely true, but i see that when people do move they move right into what is their cultural norm. Whole neighborhoods in the U.S are built upon this, and it is not a problem as far as i have seen.

For example, i live right next to a large Indian population and they took their culture with them...right down to the details. It is interesting to note how exposure forms your perception. You unknowingly appreciate the natural beauty in the Indian female.

um, do you work at Subway?
 
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I don't think it is possible that the three religions will join together.

First of all, Judaism is essentially a religion for Jewish people and has appeal mainly for that ethnic group. Though there are sects which allow conversion, it is not very common. The belief in One God and its teachings, however, gives many people a favorable view of the religion.

Christianity is a religion with a wide scope, however the problem I see with the religion is that it is associated with colonialism in many parts of the world. Also, the belief in trinity alienates many people who do not accept it. The appeal of the Christian religion are the teachings of Prophet Jesus (peace be to him).

My belief is that Islam is the religion which has the most potential to unite different people, though many people on this forum would not agree with me. This is evident to me by the fact that wherever Muslim followers exist, Islam has become a part of the region and culture. Only a minority (20%) of Muslims are Arabs. This becomes even lower if we only consider the original Arab tribes of the center of the Peninsula. Muslims accept all the Hebrew prophets such as David, Moses, Jesus, John (Yahya), along with the Prophet Muhammad (peace be to them). Muslims also believe in the fact that all nations of humanity where sent prophets, though we only are informed of the Middle Eastern prophets.

For Muslims, atleast, Islam is the continuation of the Jewish and Christian traditions. This is the reason why it has an immense following among the descendants of the ancient Christians (Egyptians, Levant, Yemen, Turkey) and Jews (Palestine) of the Middle East.

The Prophet Muhammad (peace be to him) is praised in Islam because he is the final prophet and the greatest example to humankind. Also, his message is the one we have most knowledge and detail of.

As related by the Prophet Muhammad (peace be to him), "My similitude in comparison with the other Prophets before me is that of a man who has built a house nicely and beautifully, except for a place of one brick. The people go about it and wonder at its beauty, but say: "Would that this brick be put in its place." So I am that brick, and I am the last of the prophets." (Sahih Bukhari)

Fraggle Rocker said:
Within Islam one hardly has to point out the hatred between Sunnis and Shiites, apparently over some incredible little nuance that happened more than a thousand years ago.
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There is a disagreement between Sunni and Shiat, however, this occurred centuries ago and was of political origin. Sunni and Shiat Muslims generally don't define themselves as of a sect, but as Muslims. There are five madhabs (classical schools) of Islamic thought and each differ in minor areas (such as where to place hands while praying). These five schools are defined by their teachers Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal, Imam Shafi'i, Imam Malik, Imam Abu Hanifah, and the Shiat school Imam Jafari. All of the five Imams were acquaintances, and learned from each other.

It is in the interest of those uninformed of Islam to attempt to show that Muslims hate each other, when this is not clearly a case. If anyone is interested and wants to ask more questions, I will be glad to answer.
 
I don't see much chance for a reunification of the three groups in question until the Messiah returns and takes direct control of the world.

The primary difference between Judaism and Christianity is the identity of the Messiah. Christians identify the Messiah as Jesus Christ and mainstream Judaism rejects that indentification. (I don't recall anything in Islam regarding the Messiah.)

For Judaism and Christianity to merge, both groups would have to agree on the identity - or lack of identification - of the Messiah. I doubt if the Jews (as a group) will ever admit they 'missed' the appearance of the Messiah; I equally doubt if Christians (as a group) will ever admit they were mistaken in their identification of the Messiah. That is, until the Messiah comes; that should pretty well answer the question.

Islam differs from Judaism and Christianity by the negation of the Messiah and the addition of certain aspects of Arabic mythology. I hasten to add this is not intended to offend - although I'm sure it is not popular - this is simply the view from the outside.

Christianity claims to be the final word from God regarding His intentions toward mankind. Christianity claims to be the fulfillment of Judaism. It says in so many words no new word or teachings will come.

For Islam to merge with either Judaism or Christianity, Islam would have to essentially give up Islam. I see that as far less likely than the merge of Judaism and Christianity.
 
Archie said:
Islam differs from Judaism and Christianity by the negation of the Messiah and the addition of certain aspects of Arabic mythology. I hasten to add this is not intended to offend - although I'm sure it is not popular - this is simply the view from the outside.

Christianity claims to be the final word from God regarding His intentions toward mankind. Christianity claims to be the fulfillment of Judaism. It says in so many words no new word or teachings will come.

For Islam to merge with either Judaism or Christianity, Islam would have to essentially give up Islam. I see that as far less likely than the merge of Judaism and Christianity.
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Muslims believe that Jesus (peace be upon him) is the Messiah.

We believe the Messiah was of virgin birth, and was sent to save the Jews from their disbelief but they rejected him, therefore Allah (swt) made his religion dominant and cursed the Jewish community who rejected him.

It is interesting to note that the regions of the Levant, Yemen, Egypt, and Turkey were Christian until the advent of Islam, where the people of these regions promptly converted to the new faith.

Muslims view Islam as the successor to the Christian and Jewish religions, we belief that all the biblical prophets including Jesus and Moses (peace be to them) taught the same message, Islam.

We also believe in the second coming of Jesus (peace be upon him) and in the descendant of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) al Mahdhi who will be born in Madinah, then establish a pure Muslim state there and will have the name Muhammad ibn Abdullah. We also believe in the Antichrist, who we refer to as al Masih ad-Dajjal, the false messiah who will cause mischief in the Middle East, then the Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) will fight his army and kill him.

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam aren't that different from each other.
 
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DiamondHearts said:
Christianity is a religion with a wide scope, however the problem I see with the religion is that it is associated with colonialism...

My belief is that Islam is the religion which has the most potential to unite different people...
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I associate Islam with the oppression of women. In Egypt, as one example, MOST, I repeat, MOST women have undergone cliterodectomies. Such is the fear and hatred of women's sexual desire that it must be cut out by the root.

Nowhere have I heard an Islamic prohibition or even criticism of this practice. I have heard much criticism of 'Western' morals relating to women, but this fundamental crime seems to have tacit approval at the very least.
 
Grantywanty said:
I associate Islam with the oppression of women. In Egypt, as one example, MOST, I repeat, MOST women have undergone cliterodectomies. Such is the fear and hatred of women's sexual desire that it must be cut out by the root.

Nowhere have I heard an Islamic prohibition or even criticism of this practice. I have heard much criticism of 'Western' morals relating to women, but this fundamental crime seems to have tacit approval at the very least.
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Christianity is associated with colonialism in many parts of the world whether it is fair or not, and this is mostly because of Western Imperialism in the 19th and 20th centuries and modern American evangelists who only give aid to Christians and tempt people to embrace their religion to necessity.

Female Genital Mutilation is not an Islamic custom, it is a pre-Islamic African custom which is not only limited to Egypt.

Islam doesn't encourage it, the majority of modern Islamic scholars condemn it.

Please start another thread if you want to discuss this topic further.
 
DiamondHearts said:
We also believe in the Antichrist, who we refer to as al Masih ad-Dajjal, the false messiah who will cause mischief in the Middle East, then the Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) will fight his army and kill him.
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Do you (or Islam) believe that this impending war will be a physical or spiritual war? In other words, the passage from the Qur'an that speaks of this war, do you translate that literally or metaphorically?
 
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