Translation & Muslims
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[109:0] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful
[109:1] Say, "O you disbelievers.
[109:2] "I do not worship what you worship.
[109:3] "Nor do you worship what I worship.
[109:4] "Nor will I ever worship what you worship.
[109:5] "Nor will you ever worship what I worship.
[109:6] "To you is your religion, and to me is my religion."
This is pretty OK, not the best but pretty good. I suppose it's the best one could expect from monotheism. It's probably one of best peaces of advice you could give the common person.
HOWEVER I will re-write it and, do the impossible, make it better:
[109:0] In the name of Peace
[109:1] Say, "O you of Humanity.
[109:2] "I do not worship what you worship.
[109:3] "Nor do you worship what I worship.
[109:4] "Nor will I ever worship what you worship.
[109:5] "Nor will you ever worship what I worship.
[109:6] "To you is your beleif, and to me is mine.
[109:7] "We both may be right and we both may be wrong.
[109:8] "Regardless, always love your fellow Humans - they are your brothers and your sisters, your mothers and your fathers"
Yesss SAM feel the hate - let it flow in your veins... come to the Dark Side of Force where we have hope for Humanity....
Why don't you look in the mirror Michael
The ones most obsessed with religion here - yourself, Geoff and (Q)- all such bastions of rationality and tolerance - but only in theory.
The really rational, tolerant ones -spurious, Bells, James- you should take a few lessons from them.
The Qur'anic passage is inherently bigoted - it starts out drawing a line in the sand: "disbelievers" is another way of saying "they who have their head in their arse and, unlike us, are wrong"
Either God is a Twit or this is a 6th Century Cult of Personality attempting to sound Humanistic and failing.
Either God is a Twit or this is a 6th Century Cult of Personality attempting to sound Humanistic and failing.
It's NOT intolerant NOT to accept bigotry.
[109:1] Say, "O you disbelievers.
Pleease SAM, what feeling does this passage bring up in you when you think of "disbelievers"? Probably combined with Sura9 and off with their bloody head!
Look I said it's an OK attempt, probably as good as monotheism can do.
[109:1] Say, "O you disbelievers.
Pleease SAM, what feeling does this passage bring up in you when you think of "disbelievers"? Probably combined with Sura9 and off with their bloody head!
Look I said it's an OK attempt, probably as good as monotheism can do.
You mean like calling a homosexual gay?
A disbeliever is a disbeliever. Its not a slur. Like atheist, goyim. or nastik. Its a completely acceptable way to refer to a person not of the faith.
Its how traditionally a disbeliever would refer to himself. In poems, in songs. Even today, it is commonly used in Indian songs, like romantic songs where the lover claims to have become a kafir on meeting his lady love since he could worship only her.
Please do not impose your orientalism on us.
A disbeliever is a disbeliever. Its not a slur. Like atheist, goyim. or nastik. Its a completely acceptable way to refer to a person not of the faith.
Its how traditionally a disbeliever would refer to himself. In poems, in songs. Even today, it is commonly used in Indian songs, like romantic songs where the lover claims to have become a kafir on meeting his lady love since he could worship only her.
Please do not impose your orientalism on us.
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And they are equally as bad.
I think we can agree that at least Philosophers are better at describing the Human condition in a non-bigoted manner - don't you? It's pretty much impossible to do so with most any "religion".
I'm not so sure it's objective. Consider this statement:
"We demonstrated that art and math and science slows, stagnates and eventually comes to a grinding halt under any religious theocracy. Including Xiantiy including Islam..."
Now do this for me. Go find yourself a list of all Nobel prize winners in science. Count the Jews, Christians and Muslims and atheists. Tell me what you find.
You're no philosopher, don't worry.
And the human condition as described by philosophers is not very useful to the layman.
I do believe that it is the persons living in theocracies who made the earliest advancements in the scientific method.
OTOH it was the people living in secular societies who invented weapons of mass destruction and moved the battlefield to the civilians.
No, not insofar as how they are treated. Jesus said to love your enemies, love your neighbor. Jesus specifically sought out sinners, like prostitutes, IRS employees, lawyers...
What does Allah say about non-believers? What's their fate?
Like the fate of believers, that is for God to decide. And Jesus did say he did not come to change the law, he came with the sword to pit family against family. Besides, does Jesus override God? Where does it say that?
In fact, how do you know what Jesus said? Not everything he said was recovered.
Do you have a link to what's missing?
Also, I summarized Kadark's comments on 5:12-5:18. Did I do an OK job? See post 150.
Thanks.
That israeli guy........