To all ppl that believe in a god.

YES! Time -as we are made to understand it by the culture we are in--Is an invention of man. meaning HOW to experience it. The patriarchs put clocks on churches in the Middle Ages. The prupose being to gain control over the pagan experience of organic time. Rather the oppressive Chrush/State wanted to mechanicalize it, and us. Make time linear, and 'purposeful'. THAt we are still in


Had a laugh over Christmas. was listening to a radio show, and this DJ said someting like "does ANYone know what day this is? Ther's no way it feels like a Monday....I don't know what day it is"...what he said made me burst out laughing, cause i was feeling the same. It was cause all the mechanical pointers that condition us to linear time, like the news on TV, same old splots of programms, the workaday world, ,,all that had been altered cause of the season, so likewise we lose the SENSE of mechanical time and enter organic time. This is also why holidays 'HOLYdays' also can feel that time is more organic

About 'God' and 'science': What we must remember are these VERY important points:

The Church suppressed the REAL sacraments, which were originally hallucinogenic and gave people DIRECT spiritual-natrual axperience. They not only prohibited them, they also tried to erase the memory of their use.
They replace them with an empty PLACEBO-sacrament which offers the people nothing. And also ENFORCe their dogma to such an extent, one could very easily be tortured and murdered for dis-believing the 'faith'...!

So, do you agree that all of that was superstitius fascism?

THAT is what the rebelling scientists were against. So-called spirituaity had left a bad taste in their mouth, so they gave their energy and hopes to science, and ecided to leave FEELING out ot it. Thus it ALSO becomes mechanical!

Now, ging back to 'God' for a minute. 'He' was the authority of the patriarchy, right. And they had denigrated the mythology of GODDESS. This is really important to understand for this reason: That even though science SEEMS to have left the superstitions of 'God' religions behind, yet STILL they haven't resolved the REAL crisis of consciousness, because they have misinterpreted what they rebelled AGAINST. which was already corrupt. T
So their unconscious actions STILL reflect the aspirations of the religion they rebelled against. Are you understanding me? for example, in the 'he-God' religons they hate Goddess. goddess has ALWAYs represented Nature, Femininity, and enpirited matter. SO, untill that is deeply undestood, and explored, the NEW religion, Science' will unknowingly still be caught in a patriarchal mindset. Where,
in their own way they have removed the spirit OUT of Nature (the theocrats 'transcended' spirit into their sky god0, whereas the materialistic scientists disMISS spirit altogther. and assume reality is mechanical!
 
time (n.) A nonspatial continuum in which events occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future.

Time is not an invention of man. How we measure time is an invention of man.
 
top mosker: All this discussion of time makes me want to bring up the fact that time is just another invention of man.
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M*W: Man learned how to monitor time by sun-up and nightfall. However, long before man learned to monitor time and eventually creat the patriarchal solar calendar, woman had already been monitoring time by menstruation and childbirth with the lunar calendar.

You go girls!
 
duendy: YES! Time -as we are made to understand it by the culture we are in--Is an invention of man. meaning HOW to experience it. The patriarchs put clocks on churches in the Middle Ages. The prupose being to gain control over the pagan experience of organic time. Rather the oppressive Chrush/State wanted to mechanicalize it, and us. Make time linear, and 'purposeful'. THAt we are still in
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M*W: Right on!
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duendy: Had a laugh over Christmas. was listening to a radio show, and this DJ said someting like "does ANYone know what day this is? Ther's no way it feels like a Monday....I don't know what day it is"...what he said made me burst out laughing, cause i was feeling the same. It was cause all the mechanical pointers that condition us to linear time, like the news on TV, same old splots of programms, the workaday world, ,,all that had been altered cause of the season, so likewise we lose the SENSE of mechanical time and enter organic time. This is also why holidays 'HOLYdays' also can feel that time is more organic
*************
M*W: It was the wiccan herbalists, medicine women, shamans, druids and pagans who used certain herbals according to specific times.
*************
duendy: About 'God' and 'science': What we must remember are these VERY important points:

The Church suppressed the REAL sacraments, which were originally hallucinogenic and gave people DIRECT spiritual-natrual axperience. They not only prohibited them, they also tried to erase the memory of their use. They replace them with an empty PLACEBO-sacrament which offers the people nothing. And also ENFORCe their dogma to such an extent, one could very easily be tortured and murdered for dis-believing the 'faith'...! So, do you agree that all of that was superstitius fascism?
*************
M*W: The Church did not fall far from the pagan tree.
*************
duendy: THAT is what the rebelling scientists were against. So-called spirituaity had left a bad taste in their mouth, so they gave their energy and hopes to science, and ecided to leave FEELING out ot it. Thus it ALSO becomes mechanical!
*************
M*W: When the mechanical clock was invented, time became linear. There is nothing more authentic than the time kept by the goddesses.
*************
duendy: Now, ging back to 'God' for a minute. 'He' was the authority of the patriarchy, right. And they had denigrated the mythology of GODDESS. This is really important to understand for this reason: That even though science SEEMS to have left the superstitions of 'God' religions behind, yet STILL they haven't resolved the REAL crisis of consciousness, because they have misinterpreted what they rebelled AGAINST. which was already corrupt.
*************
M*W: Earliest man's god was the sun. Earliest woman's goddess was herself.
*************
duendy: So their unconscious actions STILL reflect the aspirations of the religion they rebelled against. Are you understanding me? for example, in the 'he-God' religons they hate Goddess. goddess has ALWAYs represented Nature, Femininity, and enpirited matter. SO, untill that is deeply undestood, and explored, the NEW religion, Science' will unknowingly still be caught in a patriarchal mindset. Where, in their own way they have removed the spirit OUT of Nature (the theocrats 'transcended' spirit into their sky god, whereas the materialistic scientists disMISS spirit altogther. and assume reality is mechanical!
*************
M*W: The only mechanical objects goddesses worship is their dildo.
 
M*W: No, that's not the case. The universe is cyclic. There is no beginning and there is no end. No one can truthfully establish the dates of the random and natural occurance of the Big Bang. We are still experiencing ripples from the Big Bang. No one created the Big Bang -- it just evolved as did we.
Click to expand...

Where did the matter for the big bang come from?

Where is the proof that the universe is cyclic. Accourding to astronomy, the universe is definantly open, which means it expands for eternity. But then we have a problem, because eternity cannot be cyclic accourding to the laws of mathematics.

M*W: There is no need for God to have a beginning, because he never existed.
Click to expand...

Just because you do not believe in Him does not mean that He doesn't exist.
 
are you asserting that your god exists, enigma.
if so can you indulge us, and show us.
thank you.
waiting in anticipation.


oh yes, using reality please.
 
Enigma'07 said:
Where did the matter for the big bang come from?

When you ask that question, you reveal to me that you are beliving matter is separate from spirit?. This is quite an old problem which began with the patriarchy, when 'spirit' was said to be separate from 'Nature/matter/mater/Mother". In secular lingo it is the "mind/body" problem. so as you can see this patriarchal idea is being maintained even through a different paradigm. Which DOESN'T mean it is true. Actually i believ that matter and spirit/consciousness are ALWAYS togther. like two sides of a same coin.

Where is the proof that the universe is cyclic.

haha....well. checkout your sur-ROUNDings.....you are living on a circular SPHERES which travels circularly in space, as do other planets including moon......We have seasons which circulate.......When you go for a walk you leave at a beginning and end where the beginning started. ie., you complete a ROUND journey. we have alternating day and night, etc. Galaxies form circulating spirals. EVEN that mechanical clock on your wall goes round (if it's not digital. but even then mumbers go round to starting time digits) in a circle....What MORe proof do you want? that reality dances in circles. that beginnings are ends and ends are beginnings. ETERNITY is deeply being aware of this. it doesn't mean it is separate from time. they are both embedded dynamically in each other.

Accourding to astronomy, the universe is definantly open, which means it expands for eternity.

There is not ONE scientific theoriy about this as i am sure you may know. Soem talk about a 'fractal universe' etc. So don't assume therer is one theory. otherwise ou are beginning a religion.

But then we have a problem, because eternity cannot be cyclic accourding to the laws of mathematics.

As i explained. the 'law of mathematics' is a law. i can't say i am familiar with it. always was crap at maths (the way it was taught in school no doubt)....so i cant say i believe you are not. but you see HOW could a person KNOW unless they have experienced eternity? Have you? I believe i have dude to my exploration with hallucinogens. and yes, it is not only cirular, but multidimensionally SPIRAL!

Just because you do not believe in Him does not mean that He doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
whach says what exactly? what does that statement MEAN? we could say it about Santa Claus couldn't we?
 
Victor E said:
Just want to give you all something to think at;

if god created the universe from nothing, he created everything. Nothing existed from the beginning.

Then, who created god?
Click to expand...

What makes you think the universe was created from 'nothing'? What exactly is nothing?
And why would it be necessary for God to have been created?
And if God is created then why would He be God?

Some points for you to consider.

Jan Ardena.
 
When you ask that question, you reveal to me that you are beliving matter is separate from spirit?.
Click to expand...

How so?

...travels circularly in space, as do other planets including moon...
Click to expand...

WRONG!!! They travel in elipses.

haha....well. checkout your sur-ROUNDings.....you are living on a circular SPHERES which travels circularly in space, as do other planets including moon......We have seasons which circulate.......When you go for a walk you leave at a beginning and end where the beginning started. ie., you complete a ROUND journey. we have alternating day and night, etc. Galaxies form circulating spirals. EVEN that mechanical clock on your wall goes round (if it's not digital. but even then mumbers go round to starting time digits) in a circle....What MORe proof do you want? that reality dances in circles. that beginnings are ends and ends are beginnings. ETERNITY is deeply being aware of this. it doesn't mean it is separate from time. they are both embedded dynamically in each other.
Click to expand...

eternity cannot be a circle, eternity must be a line. For if it were a circle, time would repeat itself, and this goes against the definition of time in our perspective.

There is not ONE scientific theoriy about this as i am sure you may know. Soem talk about a 'fractal universe' etc. So don't assume therer is one theory. otherwise ou are beginning a religion.
Click to expand...

Then do you believe that creationism should be taught in schools, so as to prevent evolution from becoming a religion?
 
I read somewhere that Meister Eckhart (famous christian mystic) described God as an intelligence instead of a being with mass and all that other stuff that would need to be "created". That makes sense to me. But then you say, how can an intelligence that has no mass interact with mass? Well, does human consciousness have mass? Many would say no, since they haven't been able to locate it in any one specific process in the body, but it definitely interacts with the body. If you do however believe that it all boils down to electrical impulses in the brain, or whatev, well then maybe God's mechanism of creating thought is different from ours. It would explain this verse in the bible -

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:8-9

Or maybe God has mass but the dimension God spends most of God's existence in was "created" before ours was.

I am not surprised that the lack of information that is exhibited by a question (asked in modern times at least) like, "if God created everything, how was God created?" is the basic ground on which most people base their beliefs, because you see it every day. It is sad though. Let's try harder, world! Maybe we could have free public education for everyone or something like that.

I do have to say however, I am grateful that I'm not the only one who cares more about asking these types of questions than watching television.
 
Enigma'07 said:
How so?



WRONG!!! They travel in elipses.

oh GOD, i wasn't being geometrically-specific.



eternity cannot be a circle, eternity must be a line.

is that so? actually there are no straight lines in Nature, so why should 'eternity' be one?

For if it were a circle, time would repeat itself, and this goes against the definition of time in our perspective.

Because as said above, you are stuck-on thinking of cyclic as being a strict geometrical 'circle', Rather think of a mutidimensional SP{IRAL

Then do you believe that creationism should be taught in schools, so as to prevent evolution from becoming a religion?
Click to expand...

you ask that because i said for you not to assume ONE scientific theory tells us whats what right? Well it is true. whay aren't you aware of this. there are several interpretations of quantum mechanics..ie., what it MEANS. there are several theories about the 'Big Bang'...NOT just one. Do you use the Web etc or what?
Also theree is matrialistic understanding of science, but there also are more organic and holistic understandings of science too. i of course empathize with the latter theories
 
Could the speed of light and time be relative to scale? For instants, relative to us an atom moves very quickly because it exists in such a smaller scale than we do. On the other hand a galaxy looks like it is a snapshot in space. It hardly moves at all relative to us. If we were at the same scale as a galaxy then we would see the galaxy move very quickly. We would look out to super clusters and they would appear to move slowly, but how fast would they move if we were the same scale as the super clusters?

Scientist's are basing the age of the universe on our scale. How long is 15 billion years to something the size of a galaxy, or a super cluster, or even to the universe itself? If you were the size of the galaxy you would see how fast it is actually spinning. 15 billion years to us would seem like a very short time to you. By the time you could bat an eye millions of generations of people would have come and gone. To us you would not appear to be moving at all.

For example, you look at your watch. It is 12:00 noon. You instantly grow the size of the galaxy and you notice the galaxy is rotating quite briskly. You then wait till your watch turns to 1:00 pm. Only one hour has past for both you and the galaxy. However, when you shrink back down to normal size you find that millions or even billions of years have passed on earth.

The volume of the Sun is 1,299,400 times bigger than the volume of the Earth; about 1,300,000 Earth’s could fit inside the Sun. This would mean that one day for the sun would be like 297 years for the Earth. So to the Sun the Earth is really whipping by fast. This could also explain why it takes a sun so long to fizzle out. That is just the Earth relative to the Sun. How much bigger is the Earth relative to us? Are there any mathematicians out there that can figure this out? My guess is that 1 day for the Earth is like billions of years for us. Just a side note but it kind of puts a new spin on the Bible account that it took six days for God to create the heaven’s and the Earth.
 
oh GOD, i wasn't being geometrically-specific.
Click to expand...

Duendy, if you wish to communicate clearly, seeing as I cannot read your mind, than you must not make vague statements, and you must use geometrically correct terms. Thanks.

is that so? actually there are no straight lines in Nature, so why should 'eternity' be one?
Click to expand...

Once again, this reverts back to geometry. In geometric theory, a line does extend to both positive and negative infinity.

Because as said above, you are stuck-on thinking of cyclic as being a strict geometrical 'circle', Rather think of a mutidimensional SP{IRAL
Click to expand...

Ahhh. but there is a differance between cyclic and spiral.
cyclic= circle=> 2D
spiral= cord=> 3D

Either way, though, they are not linear, and linear is the only way infinity can be shown.

you ask that because i said for you not to assume ONE scientific theory tells us whats what right? Well it is true. whay aren't you aware of this. there are several interpretations of quantum mechanics..ie., what it MEANS. there are several theories about the 'Big Bang'...NOT just one. Do you use the Web etc or what?
Also theree is matrialistic understanding of science, but there also are more organic and holistic understandings of science too. i of course empathize with the latter theories
Click to expand...

I am aware of this. The only issue is that there is one main theory that scientists agree on. I am saying that just as the majority of scientists agree with the theory of evolution, so it is that the majority of scientists believe the universe is open. Have you ever taken an astronomy class? How about geometry? I don't mean to offend, I was just wondering.
 
Although I put a lot more faith in the consensus of scientists from the twentieth and twentyfirst centuries than in previous ones, let's not pretend for a second that they are the final word...

they're not. <---the final word
 
I still waiting enigma.
misty said:
are you asserting that your god exists, enigma.
if so can you indulge us, and show us.
thank you.
waiting in anticipation.


oh yes, using reality please.
Click to expand...
as soon as possible please, thank you.
 
Enigma'07 said:
Duendy, if you wish to communicate clearly, seeing as I cannot read your mind, than you must not make vague statements, and you must use geometrically correct terms. Thanks.

errrm, i am not sure i know what a 'geometrically correct term' IS

Once again, this reverts back to geometry. In geometric theory, a line does extend to both positive and negative infinity.

but i am not speaking of geometric THEORY, but organic LIFE

Ahhh. but there is a differance between cyclic and spiral.
cyclic= circle=> 2D
spiral= cord=> 3D

i am also suggesting a multidimensional spiral

Either way, though, they are not linear, and linear is the only way infinity can be shown.

'shown'? hmmmmmm. so show me? but felt....no.

I am aware of this. The only issue is that there is one main theory that scientists agree on. I am saying that just as the majority of scientists agree with the theory of evolution, so it is that the majority of scientists believe the universe is open.

i am no way trusting of consensual 'scientific opion'. when we get there politics is there to. as in the previous paradigm of the theocratic medieval church and STATE, so it is now with 'science'&state. this means that what is 'accepted' is accepted for political/corporate reasons. so it behoves us--very much so, eg., the people, to look deeper behind what is being said MUST be accepted by scientific dogma. this exploration opens you up to other fields. it HAs to

Have you ever taken an astronomy class? How about geometry? I don't mean to offend, I was just wondering.
Click to expand...

no........but this shouldn't disqualify me
or ANYone from exp[loring about these things
 
a little late, but......

"I claim that the universe and everything in it exists only in my mind. When I die, all of you, and the rest of the universe will cease to exist. Can anyone find fault with that?"-----marv

your signature DOES say you are just a dumb hillbilly! lol
 
I'm replying to the first post:
In the Bible, it states that God is just "there", he is, "I am."
He says that this is something mankind will never understand. If this is something you want to believe, but are struggling to do so, think of it this way: God is from a totally different dimension, not from this universe and so on. So that's how he created our existence, because he is from a different existence. Of course there isn't anything in the Bible to back this up, but it makes more sense.
 
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