Time Travel is Science Fiction

See added content , it does not need numbers to explain it,

I don't understand then. No numbers to me means you don't know what you're talking about. If you knew what you're talking about you would post your numbers to show me the error of my ways. But you haven't done that yet. That leads me to believe that you are just talking without knowing.

You sound like a bad Discovery Channel repetition.
 
BTW, You do realize there is acceleration in the scenario, right? Just checking.
Accelerate has much as you like, time does not change by actions inside of the actions. Your scenario becomes meaningless, if you understand what I have just explained.
I do not want to sound arrogant, but there is no need to even consider your scenario, when my scenario clearly shows the exact reality and logical axiom of time travel, time dilation, being none existent in the form of time change.
When ''time'' is considered by science, and time dilation and relativistic explanation, I feel too many factors are left out, giving illusion.
 
Accelerate has much as you like, time does not change by actions inside of the actions. Your scenario becomes meaningless, if you understand what I have just explained.
I do not want to sound arrogant, but there is no need to even consider your scenario, when my scenario clearly shows the exact reality and logical axiom of time travel, time dilation, being none existent in the form of time change.
When ''time'' is considered by science, and time dilation and relativistic explanation, I feel too many factors are left out, giving illusion.

Still no numbers...
 
I'm missing something here.

So he traveled for 12 months in total, six there and six back, but does he arrive 230 years in the future or does he just travel 230 light years during that year? I can see how you could travel two six month journeys of 230 light years there and back and it would take the observer 230 years to see the light emitted from his fartherest location but I do not see how you could call it time travel or regard the total trip time as anything but one year on either clock.

Say the ship sends out a photon pulse towards the stationary observer every second as it moves away and returns and, as the ship passes by on leaving, both agree that the pulse is 1 second and the ship is traveling at a very fast but measurable velocity. As the ship moves away the spacing between the pulses increase and the pulse becomes red shifted while on the return journey the separation between the pulses becomes irrelevant as the last pulse emitted when the ship passes the observer will be the only pulse recorded by the observer during the return journey of the ship and both will agree that the pulse is 1 second and the ship is traveling at a very fast but measurable velocity.

As the distance traveled in the time is 230 light years each way and the overall trip time is 1 year, the ship must be traveling at something like 460c. Only those pulses emitted during the first 1/460 (0.8*24*60*60 pulses) of the ships outward journey will arrive at the observer before the final pulse comes in (0.8*24*60*60 + 1 pulses received in total during journey) as the ship returns and passes the observer one year later.

The best thing is that you know in one year (actually much earlier based on pulse timing and shift) if the ship really worked rather than having to wait 230 years to find out if you had been taken by charlatans.

I'll end my post on that note as other working examples of 'time travel' to date are also restricted to places where time travel is not forbidden like the global trade/financial system where you just sell a stock first and then buy it back later to finalise the transaction. Beats buying and selling.
 
No, I'm saying the 8 hours is sleep time.
When you are considering this, are you considering the timing, by the advanced system, similar to a Caesium atom?.

And considering a time dilation of 24 seconds from somewhere?

If not, can you please clarify of what you are trying to say with your post.<reword it>.

If you consider that in 3 dimensional space, with only two Caesium atoms, travelling, has in your scenario.

Neither atom will record a change, because there is no gravity present to make a change of rate. So both observers see no dilation.
 
... The travelling twin not only lives to see his brother long dead and buried, he returns to an Earth around 230 years in the future, while he and his clock have only aged both biologically and mechanically by 12 months.
No he returns to a now - the same now his dead brother's great, great grand children are experiencing on Earth a old men and women. The same now some rich friends of his twin brother could have experienced much more cheaply with about 200 year in suspended animation chamber here on earth all the time before being "re-animated."

While here I'm testing to see if this photo will copy. In any case when I have travel a few minutes into the future, I use a then existing now to remove this:
5
Assuming I don't forget.
 
http://plus.maths.org/content/time-travel-allowed
In brief: The laws of physics allow members of an exceedingly advanced civilisation to travel forward in time as fast as they might wish. Backward time travel is another matter; we do not know whether it is allowed by the laws of physics, and the answer is likely controlled by a set of physical laws that we do not yet understand at all well: the laws of quantum gravity. In order for humans to travel forward in time very rapidly, or backward (if allowed at all), we would need technology far far beyond anything we are capable of today.

Travelling forward in time rapidly
Albert Einstein's relativistic laws of physics tell us that time is "personal". If you and I move differently or are at different locations in a gravitational field, then the rate of flow of time that you experience (the rate that governs the ticking of any very good clock you carry with you and that governs the aging of your body) is different from the rate of time flow that I experience. (Einstein used the phrase "time is relative"; I prefer "time is personal".)


This personal character of time allows one person to travel forward in time much faster than another, a phenomenon embodied in the so-called twins paradox. One twin (call him Methuselah) stays at home on Earth; the other (Florence) travels out into the Universe at high speed and then returns. When they meet at the end of the trip, Florence will have aged far less than Methuselah; for example, Florence may have aged 30 years and Methuselah 4,500 years. (The twin that ages least is the one who undergoes huge accelerations, to get up to high speed, slow down, reverse direction, then accelerate back and slow to a halt on Earth. The twin who leads the sedate life ages the most.)

A massive black hole is another vehicle for rapid forward time travel: If Methuselah remains in orbit high above the event horizonof a massive black hole (say, one whose gravitational pull is that of a billion suns) and Florence travels down to near the event horizon and hovers just above it for, say, 30 years and then returns, Methuselah can have aged thousands or millions of years. This is because time flows much more slowly near a black hole's event horizon (where the acceleration of gravity is huge) than far above it (where one can live sedately).

These time travel phenomena have been tested in the laboratory. Muons — short-lived elementary particles — travelling around and around in a storage ring at 0.9994 of the speed of light, at the Brookhaven National Laboratory on Long Island, New York, have been seen to age 29 times more slowly than muons at rest in the laboratory. And atomic clocks on the surface of the Earth have been seen to run more slowly than atomic clocks high above the Earth's surface — more slowly by about 4 parts in 10 billion.

more.....
http://plus.maths.org/content/time-travel-allowed
''Travelling forward in time rapidly
Albert Einstein's relativistic laws of physics tell us that time is "personal". If you and I move differently or are at different locations in a gravitational field, then the rate of flow of time that you experience (the rate that governs the ticking of any very good clock you carry with you and that governs the aging of your body) is different from the rate of time flow that I experience. (Einstein used the phrase "time is relative"; I prefer "time is personal".)''

In my opinion , untrue, time does not change, only the ''timing of decay'', if you and I move differently or are in a none gravitational reference frame, or equal gravitational reference frame, then relative to us, there is no dilation of the timing.
A third observer, would time no difference relative to them. <depending on reference frame>.

A third observer, at 0 velocity, relative to another observer at 0 velocity, in the same reference frame, experiences no dilation.

A third observer who travelled at x velocity equal to the observer in motions velocity, will observe no dilation.
But will both experience a dilation of decay compared to the 0 velocity observer, in a gravitational field.

In all instances, a forth observer, from an outer view, records no time dilation in either instances from their relative perspective view.
 
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I failed to add to that list of methods, a Kerr metric BH....or a spinning BH and its ergosphere, from whence escape is possible, and also the subsequent ring singularity, in which we could safely pass through, if we calculated the correct trajectory, so that the gravity pull from all sides canceled itself out.
It's all science fiction. The coordinate speed of light at the event horizon is zero. And GR does not forbid ghosts. Or fairies. Or unicorns.
 
In a sense neither exists until you get there. But keep in mind that you do not observe the present; you observe things that happened some time ago and just call it (with some accuracy) "the present."...
The "auditory past" does exist for normal humans for up to about 4 seconds (and does for me):
http://www.wisegeekhealth.com/what-is-echoic-memory.htm said:
When a person hears a sound, like a few notes of music or a short sentence, echoic memory engages and the brain keeps a perfect replica of that sound for a brief period. People may even defer paying attention to the sound’s meaning when they hear it, and could instead interpret the brain’s copy. For instance, sometimes a person isn’t paying full attention to another’s conversation. He might ask a speaker to repeat something, and then realize he knows what was said before the speaker can say it again. This is echoic memory in action, producing the copy of the sound so the person can catch up on listening or be able to briefly think about a sound’s significance.

... research into short-term auditory memory has shown that people appear to increase their echoic memory to higher second times as they grow. Therefore, a toddler’s auditory sensory memory isn’t as long as a teenager’s. Some of this ability to produce and keep copies of sounds tends to deteriorate with advanced aging, however.
Although I am old, I am very active mentally and for me echoic memory seem to not yet be growing shorter. In fact often my concentration is so focused that I do not even realize my wife is speaking to me from only three feet away, until a second or two has passed. Then I can "play back" from my echoic memory and answer her. I. e. a short part of the "past" is available to the "present" but we know it was an earlier "present." Humans do have a little of the "flow of time" in their brains that they naturally extend in their intuitive concept of time as an unending flow from the not yet present "future" into years of their past, via other forms of memory. ... For example, when I'm not hearing my wife consciously, I was unconsciously hearing her and probably even had formed my reply with no conscious awareness of it. Not only just "hearing her" but fully processing the continuous (there are no breaks between words) sound steam first into parsed words, then looking them up as they arrive in my "lexicon" to first learn what roles they can play in a sentience:

Like (a) transitive verb, expect a noun or pronoun object., or (b) noun - for examples of both consider "hit." If case (a) ball or Jack place holders are made and quickly filled if possible. If (b) expect word to be used as "predicate adjective" like in "The play was a hit." If "play" has already been herd and process then the sentence tree branch with "play" having the possible role as the verb will drop to lower probability.

All this sequential processing is well documented experimentally - read some of the research into Dichotic Listening, other wise known a the "cocktail party effect" as there typically are several nearby conversations you are fully processing in parallel but are conscious of only the one your are "attending." However if one of the others has just said something of great interest to you (your name, or that "Bob is sleeping with Joan." {name of your wife} etc. your attention will switch to it and from you now conscious echoic neural activity you can hear what was said even though those sound waves no longer are existing in the present. What I said about nerves and echoic memory is well confirmed experimentally and may be why all humans have the intuitive idea of time flowing.

Then in this sentence construction example case, you have in short term memory to possible different sentences being held. Next from the lexicon, after look up of possible functional roles for each word, you get meanings for both (a) & (b) plus any (c)s etc. As more of the sound stream arrives and is analyzed/processed, your short term memory capacity may become limiting forcing you to discard some of the several dozen " low probability possible sentences" you have been developing. At end is an example of a "garden path" sentence that the improbable, but only correct sentence was discarded. (You were led down the "garden path" to error.)

But again point is humans do have neurological activity persisting a few seconds in the brain, which is the result of very complex unconscious processing, we are not immediately conscious of so yes you are correct when you said:

" you observe things that happened some time ago and just call it (with some accuracy) "the present."

The "sonic past" that can be brought into your present conscious experiences is less than 5 seconds old. Older than that you can not experience it - only remember it. Ideic (memory recall of images) is only tiny faction of a second, unless it was an image that "instantly" dropped to black as vision, unlike sentence construction, is processed in only about 0.05 seconds and the next image "frame" over writes the old. - Why movie frames need to be displayed at least ~15 / second to be seen as continuous - neurologically they ARE CONTINUOUS, thanks to ideic neural persistence.
... Science as we know it would be impossible if the present was not based on the past, ...
Not literally true as the past does not exist - what science is "based on" is information, discovered in the past (or currently) that has been handed down to the present. For centuries that "handing down" was mainly via books or starting ~150 years ago in photographs and sound recordings, but now some of it is being preserved for use in the future in digital form in various devices that can store "bits.'

* Below, as I promised, is an example of an erroneously discarded "garden path" sentence. These lopped off branches of the growing "sentences tree" under dynamic construction are low probably but sometimes are the only valid sentence. (Normally for clarity when written, there would be some punctuation and or conjunctions to make it not a garden path sentence.)

The horse raced thru both the barn and the puddle behind it the flooding lake had made swam ;but the older horse just walked there to drink. I.e. there is a long participle phase inserted between horse and swam which is the verb of the simple sentence 'The horse swam." telling which horse swam.
Hint:
After you can't make sense of this perfectly good sentence, pretend you will "reply" to quote my text and see some more text that is invisible now as it is colored white.
 
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When you are considering this, are you considering the timing, by the advanced system, similar to a Caesium atom?.

And considering a time dilation of 24 seconds from somewhere?

If not, can you please clarify of what you are trying to say with your post.<reword it>.

If you consider that in 3 dimensional space, with only two Caesium atoms, travelling, has in your scenario.

Neither atom will record a change, because there is no gravity present to make a change of rate. So both observers see no dilation.

Show me your numbers and we can talk.
 
What all?
All the physics that says things that Farsight doesn't agree with. All the quotations from Einstein that people produce that Farsight never addresses. All the passages before and after the quotations from other sources that Farsight uses.
Which coordinates are you using?
The one, true, holy coordinates of Farsight-Relatvity's "inhomogeneous space". (Please ignore the fact that Farsight views actually providing coordinates or actually doing physics applications in general a barrier to understanding.)
 
Let's assume the total trip is 230 ly and the traveler is moving at a speed VERY close to c.
So he traveled for 12 months in total, six there and six back, but does he arrive 230 years in the future or does he just travel 230 light years during that year?
Both. He has traveled about 230 ly and the trip took about 230 years for the observer in the nontraveling frame. The trip took 1 year for the observer in the traveling frame.

I can see how you could travel two six month journeys of 230 light years there and back and it would take the observer 230 years to see the light emitted from his fartherest location but I do not see how you could call it time travel or regard the total trip time as anything but one year on either clock.
The total trip is 230 ly so the farthest point of travel would be 115 ly from the starting point. Light emitted by the space ship at the farthest point would therefore take 115 years to reach the starting point. The space ship would arrive shortly after the light arrived (since the ship is moving at ~.99999 c). The time that elapsed on the space ship from the farthest point to arriving at the starting point would be 6 months.

Say the ship sends out a photon pulse towards the stationary observer every second as it moves away and returns and, as the ship passes by on leaving, both agree that the pulse is 1 second and the ship is traveling at a very fast but measurable velocity. As the ship moves away the spacing between the pulses increase and the pulse becomes red shifted while on the return journey the separation between the pulses becomes irrelevant as the last pulse emitted when the ship passes the observer will be the only pulse recorded by the observer during the return journey of the ship and both will agree that the pulse is 1 second and the ship is traveling at a very fast but measurable velocity.
Here is the problem you said that both agree that the time between the pulses is 1 second. That is NOT possible!
If the space ship sent out a pulse of light every second based on their clock, then the time between pulses seen by the stationary observer will be one pulse every 230 seconds, not every second.

As the distance traveled in the time is 230 light years each way and the overall trip time is 1 year, the ship must be traveling at something like 460c. Only those pulses emitted during the first 1/460 (0.8*24*60*60 pulses) of the ships outward journey will arrive at the observer before the final pulse comes in (0.8*24*60*60 + 1 pulses received in total during journey) as the ship returns and passes the observer one year later.
Due to length contraction the traveler would see that he had traveled approximately 1 ly in 1 year. When he landed and returned to his starting frame he would see that from that frame he had traveled 230 ly in 230 years in the original frame, but that would be 1 year of ship time.

The best thing is that you know in one year (actually much earlier based on pulse timing and shift) if the ship really worked rather than having to wait 230 years to find out if you had been taken by charlatans.
Huh?
 
No, I'm saying the 8 hours is sleep time.
Yes that is what most would normally call those 8 hours; but they are a mild form of hibernation that bear do for 3 or more months. Like wise hibernation is a mild form of "suspended animations" which is being researched (in less than human animals, at present) as it may make colinazation of Mars much more economical - no need for food during about a 3 year trip, etc.

Paddoboy in direct response to my question said, in post 863, he would consider both suspended animation man re-animated and the traveling twin who are both alive and well 200 years by Earth clocks after their birthdays to have been Time Travelers, who traveled into the future - I don't consider that to be "time traveling." - Just two different means were used to slow (by earth clocks) their rates of aging. While I do disagree, I congratulate him on being consistent.

Now we come to the question is the slowing of rate of aging a bear does when hibernating? I of course say "no" but assume Paddoboy would say "Yes, but a very minor extent of "time travel" - just from fall until spring."

So does your 8 hours of sleep qualify as time travel into the future? I still say "No." because there is no now existing future to travel into - there is no way the 31,557,600 seconds of only 2016 exist as each of them is very different* 3D space in the universe - need than many different universses, just with one second different conditions, but time can be "sliced" much more finely than by the second. For example the event the LHC's beam makes in the target are dramatically different each femtosecond - some particle that were real particle will only be gamma rays a femtosecond later.

If the entire future universe is existing now in different femtosecond slices for me to "time travel" to it arriving in the femtosecond of my choice, the is a lot of mass energy existing some where (Outside of our universe, I assume.)
So believers that time travel to the future is possible, are also without knowing it, are postulating that they can travel outside of our universe.

* For example, a bank guard was alive and well as the bullet pierced his heart in the next second.
 
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8 hours is 28,800 seconds. During that time bears hibernate, people take naps, and light spheres increase the radius 28,800*299,792,459 meters.

There is no escaping or cheating time, regardless if you hibernate, die, or travel, 8 hours is 8 hours, as measured by a clock. You can not exist for any other amount of time than 8 hours in 8 hours. The light sphere can not and does not change it's radius because a bear hibernates.
 
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nearly free fall for four or less seconds. (There is slight air drag gravity due to the stabilization fins.)

Trips are pre-programed and fully automatic. - Only controls, once started, are the "abort" and "jump" buttons.
The first returns you to the departure space time and the jump pre-maturely sends you into next leg of your trip.
No refunds are given for un-used future visit time if either button is passenger activated. Your will be belted in,
But have an unobstructed full view of everything below thru the glass bottom of our modern time machines.
Chose your trip from the extensive list of tested visits to the future & pay (Major credit systems all accepted) at:

WWW. NYTT.com/ trips. See the FAQs and satisfied prior user comments there too. Go to the future & return!

* Minimum dwell is 20 seconds. By IRS requirements, return is mandatory. (IRS will return tax evaders to jail.)
 
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''Travelling forward in time rapidly
Albert Einstein's relativistic laws of physics tell us that time is "personal". If you and I move differently or are at different locations in a gravitational field, then the rate of flow of time that you experience (the rate that governs the ticking of any very good clock you carry with you and that governs the aging of your body) is different from the rate of time flow that I experience. (Einstein used the phrase "time is relative"; I prefer "time is personal".)''

In my opinion , untrue, time does not change, only the ''timing of decay'', if you and I move differently or are in a none gravitational reference frame, or equal gravitational reference frame, then relative to us, there is no dilation of the timing.
A third observer, would time no difference relative to them. <depending on reference frame>.

A third observer, at 0 velocity, relative to another observer at 0 velocity, in the same reference frame, experiences no dilation.

A third observer who travelled at x velocity equal to the observer in motions velocity, will observe no dilation.
But will both experience a dilation of decay compared to the 0 velocity observer, in a gravitational field.

In all instances, a forth observer, from an outer view, records no time dilation in either instances from their relative perspective view.

time dilation,relative velocity
delta t' = gamma delta t = delta t / sqrt 1-v^2/c^2
gamma = 1/ sqrt 1- v^2/c^2

time dilation, gravitation and motion together
dt^2(sub script)E= (1- 2GM(sub script)i/r(subscript)i c^2) dt^2(subscript)c - (1-2GM(sub script)i/r(subscript)i c^2)^-1 dx^2+dy^2+dz^2/c^2

coordinate velocity,clock
v^2=dx^2+dy^2+dz^2/dt^2(subscript)c

situated infinitely far from all gravitational masses [U=0]and stationary in the system of coordinates[v=0]
dt(subscript)E/dt(subscript)c = sqrt 1-2U/c^2 - v^2/c^2 - (c^2/2U-1)^-1 v(subscript)||^2/c^2

there is also time dilation at constant force.
 
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