is their velocity constant at high rates while they are sleeping ?
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Time Travel is Science Fiction
- Thread starter Farsight
- Start date
Motor Daddy
Valued Senior Member
Do you not understand the scenario and how acceleration, constant velocity, and "at rest" relate to distance and time?
Again, that's as valid as saying that California does not exist to someone who lives in New York. After all, they can only see information about California that was "handed down" to them.
However, both the past and California have real existences, even to the person in New York.
Let the anaut clock run slower than the earth clock for the duration of the trip (excluding the reversal for simplification).
Anaut Al will have recorded all earth events upon his return. Those events will have occurred in a shorter time interval for Al, and thus at a faster rate. Al explains this as a result of a contracted universe as it moves past him
(his interpretation of his own time dilation). He is always in the presence of his twin, via communication. Allowing for light transit time, the future occurs for him while (simultaneously) occurring for his twin.
He does not travel in time, but his clock has a slower beat.
Anaut Al will have recorded all earth events upon his return. Those events will have occurred in a shorter time interval for Al, and thus at a faster rate. Al explains this as a result of a contracted universe as it moves past him
(his interpretation of his own time dilation). He is always in the presence of his twin, via communication. Allowing for light transit time, the future occurs for him while (simultaneously) occurring for his twin.
He does not travel in time, but his clock has a slower beat.
No it isn't. California exists, New York exists. Whether somebody lives in New York or not, California exists, and New York exists. However the past does not. It's just a label we give to where everything used to be. There is no way you can move such that everything is back where it was. Time travel is science fiction.
i understand sleeping is irrelevant in this scenario.
but i will admit, i did not read the scenario[ i also assumed it was the typical twin scenario], i usually skip your post since they are nothing but trolling tactics, that are usually irrelevant.
Whether you live one nanosecond or one second from a point in time, the past exists. Indeed, all you can observe is the past. You cannot observe the present.
Motor Daddy
Valued Senior Member
Well then just keep skipping them. Why would you do something you don't want to do? Are you a glutton for punishment? Put me on ignore, it will help you with your
my addiction ??
i'm not the one going around to every topic i can find with irrelevant,argumentative nonsense.
amusingMotor Daddy
Valued Senior Member
my addiction ??
i'm not the one going around to every topic i can find with irrelevant,argumentative nonsense.
Show me the numbers. If you're scared say you're scared.
Motor Daddy
Valued Senior Member
You're wrong! You have no idea what acceleration is and how it relates to distance and time. In my scenario there is acceleration, constant velocity, deceleration and rest, in each direction. The distance and time was measured.
It goes like this:
Start with a zero velocity at a point in space.
Accelerate away from that point for a duration of time.
Stop accelerating and cruise at a constant velocity for a duration of time.
Start accelerating (decelerating) from a constant velocity to a zero velocity in a duration of time.
Sleep for 8 hours, which is a duration of time.
Accelerate away from that point in space (towards original start point) for a duration of time.
Stop accelerating and cruise at a constant velocity for a duration of time.
Start accelerating (decelerating) from a constant velocity to a zero velocity in a duration of time.
But you don't know anything about that, because you're clueless.
Sure he returns to "now"....quite a different "now"then he would be experiencing if he had not partaken in his trip.
Which supports the fact that there is no Universal "now" or "time" and that time dilation and its effects is certainly a form of time travel....or "now"travel if you like.
It's only Sci/Fi at this time.....Tomorrow it may be Sci/Fact.
You seem to be continually discarding the scientific methodology like MD with regards to ghosts,fairies and Goblins.
We have many speculative theoretical scenarios for time travel. We have none for ghosts and fairies, but if that's what you chose to accept, then go for it. But do it in the appropraite thread. I'm here to talk and learn science....not fairy tales, alternative rubbish and myth.
amusing.the clueless part is the staggered step of the scenario that becomes equivalent.
edit-
IMO, you always focus on a piece, without grasping the whole situation and what is involved in the whole situation.
but all in all, who cares, what ever
(shrugs)
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Your opinion counts for naught.
We have scientific observational evidence for time dilation......
But like MD and Farsight, you probably also accept a belief in ghosts and fairies whose probability of existence does not align with the scientific method
I do though believe in Angels, and have observational evidence for there existence....
see....
Of course they do. Unlike the non-existent "past" the New Yorker, can go to California - it physically exits.
You can not go to Ferguson the day before Mike Brown was shot and suggest that he stay home watching TV. - That past (and ALL others) no longer physically exists anywhere for you to go to.
Your analogy is the worst I have seen in a long time.
It will never be Sci/Fact. It will always be Sci/Fi. For the reasons I gave in the OP.
I'm not. Read that OP. I'm the one adhering to scientific methodology. I give the logic and the evidence and the argument. But you don't give any counterargument, you just stick your fingers in your ears and repeat your vapid little wishful-thinking mantra.
No, you're the one peddling the fairy-tale and clinging to myth. Go find a mirror. Look into it, and pay attention: you're the one who believes in rubbish.
Here is a chart showing how time dilation effects, hence time travel, are evidenced and factual with speed......
The following table illustrates how insignificant the effect of time dilation are for velocities as great as half the speed of light, but how dramatic it becomes as you draw ever closer to the speed of light. For each velocity, the time which elapses in the rest frame for each day measured by the ship's clock is given. By the time we reach 90% of the speed of light, for each day on board, two and a quarter days pass for an observer stationary with the respect to the Lattice. As we start tacking on nines to our velocity, time dilation becomes ever more extreme. At 0.999999 of the speed of light, almost two years pass in the Lattice for every ship's day. If we continue to accelerate to 0.99999999999999 c, for every day on board, nearly twenty thousand years pass for the observer at rest.
Rest Frame Time Elapsed
per Day on Ship
v/c Days Years
0.0 1.00 0.003
0.1 1.01 0.003
0.2 1.02 0.003
0.3 1.05 0.003
0.4 1.09 0.003
0.5 1.15 0.003
0.6 1.25 0.003
0.7 1.40 0.004
0.8 1.67 0.005
0.9 2.29 0.006
0.95 3.20 0.009
0.97 4.11 0.011
0.99 7.09 0.019
0.995 10.01 0.027
0.999 22.37 0.061
0.9999 70.71 0.194
0.99999 223.61 0.613
0.999999 707.11 1.937
0.9999999 2236.07 6.126
0.99999999 7071.07 19.373
0.999999999 22360.68 61.262
0.9999999999 70710.68 193.728
0.99999999999 223606.79 612.621
0.999999999999 707114.60 1937.300
0.9999999999999 2235720.41 6125.261
0.99999999999999 7073895.38 19380.535
0.999999999999999 22369621.33 61286.634
At the velocities people currently travel the effect of time dilation is small, but measurable with accurate instruments. Since time dilation affects the rate at which time passes, the total discrepancy between stationary and moving clocks increases throughout the voyage. Several Russian cosmonauts have spent a year or more in Earth orbit on the space station Mir. Their orbital velocity, about 7700 metres per second, is only 0.0000257 times the speed of light, yielding a time dilation factor of 1.00000000033; each second on board Mir, 1.00000000033 seconds pass on Earth. For every second you age on Earth, the cosmonaut in orbit ages 3 nanoseconds less. This doesn't seem like much, but it adds up; after a year the cosmonaut's watch will be 3.8 seconds behind your earthbound timepiece.
You don't even have to go into orbit to measure time dilation. Modern-day atomic clocks are so accurate that when synchronising clocks between different observatories, the effect of time dilation due to transporting the reference clock on an airline flight must be taken into account.
You'll see dilation of time in action when we embark on a mission to fly through the Lattice. As you step through the movie frame by frame, compare the ship's clock with the clock at rest with regard to the Lattice, noting how the discrepancy increases as the ship's velocity approaches the speed of light.
from...............
https://www.fourmilab.ch/cship/timedial.html
The following table illustrates how insignificant the effect of time dilation are for velocities as great as half the speed of light, but how dramatic it becomes as you draw ever closer to the speed of light. For each velocity, the time which elapses in the rest frame for each day measured by the ship's clock is given. By the time we reach 90% of the speed of light, for each day on board, two and a quarter days pass for an observer stationary with the respect to the Lattice. As we start tacking on nines to our velocity, time dilation becomes ever more extreme. At 0.999999 of the speed of light, almost two years pass in the Lattice for every ship's day. If we continue to accelerate to 0.99999999999999 c, for every day on board, nearly twenty thousand years pass for the observer at rest.
Rest Frame Time Elapsed
per Day on Ship
v/c Days Years
0.0 1.00 0.003
0.1 1.01 0.003
0.2 1.02 0.003
0.3 1.05 0.003
0.4 1.09 0.003
0.5 1.15 0.003
0.6 1.25 0.003
0.7 1.40 0.004
0.8 1.67 0.005
0.9 2.29 0.006
0.95 3.20 0.009
0.97 4.11 0.011
0.99 7.09 0.019
0.995 10.01 0.027
0.999 22.37 0.061
0.9999 70.71 0.194
0.99999 223.61 0.613
0.999999 707.11 1.937
0.9999999 2236.07 6.126
0.99999999 7071.07 19.373
0.999999999 22360.68 61.262
0.9999999999 70710.68 193.728
0.99999999999 223606.79 612.621
0.999999999999 707114.60 1937.300
0.9999999999999 2235720.41 6125.261
0.99999999999999 7073895.38 19380.535
0.999999999999999 22369621.33 61286.634
At the velocities people currently travel the effect of time dilation is small, but measurable with accurate instruments. Since time dilation affects the rate at which time passes, the total discrepancy between stationary and moving clocks increases throughout the voyage. Several Russian cosmonauts have spent a year or more in Earth orbit on the space station Mir. Their orbital velocity, about 7700 metres per second, is only 0.0000257 times the speed of light, yielding a time dilation factor of 1.00000000033; each second on board Mir, 1.00000000033 seconds pass on Earth. For every second you age on Earth, the cosmonaut in orbit ages 3 nanoseconds less. This doesn't seem like much, but it adds up; after a year the cosmonaut's watch will be 3.8 seconds behind your earthbound timepiece.
You don't even have to go into orbit to measure time dilation. Modern-day atomic clocks are so accurate that when synchronising clocks between different observatories, the effect of time dilation due to transporting the reference clock on an airline flight must be taken into account.
You'll see dilation of time in action when we embark on a mission to fly through the Lattice. As you step through the movie frame by frame, compare the ship's clock with the clock at rest with regard to the Lattice, noting how the discrepancy increases as the ship's velocity approaches the speed of light.
from...............
https://www.fourmilab.ch/cship/timedial.html
It depends upon what you mean by "universal" In any one inertial frame there is a universal time far from masses in the main part of the universe. - All clocks stationary in most of that frame (the vacuum part, far from stars) can be synchronized no mater how far apart, in principle, although actually doing that would be expensive. Also if there is not transparent material to light material between the two clocks you want to synchronize, then you may need to radar pulses, etc. - there are technical difficulties, but none in principle and it is easy if only vacuum exist between them.
Say both points define an "x-axis and are at (0,0) & (2X, 0) in a Cartesian plane. Then at (X,0) you flash a brief light and by definition the arrives at t = 0 at the origin, (0,0) and at t = Tb at the clock located at (2X,0). That clock is corrected or reset by subtracting Tb from its future indication or physically changed to show Tb less than before.
Time dilation, due to motion,* one frame wrt another is only the fact that an observer in either frame observers that clocks in the frame moving wrt to his run more slowly. Some ignorant people quickly comment: "That is impossible! Both can not be running more slowly that the local clock." but they can and always do.
* Even in one inertial frame, two stationary clocks can, and will run, one more slowly than the other, if in a different (stronger) gravity field.
An interesting thought just occurred to me. We may be able to define another type of "geosynchronous orbit" that has nothing to due with Earth's spin rate. One with altitude where the clock tick rate slowing of gravity is same a the slowing due to higher relative velocity (V orbit > V surface) This of course is only possible, I think, if the net effect on GPS is due to gravity slowing. That should decrease with distance for earth's mass center, r, as inverse square, but the cube of the orbit radius r goes as the square of the period, which goes as r/v. So v^2 goes as inverse square too, but the time dilation due to has (v/c)^2 under a square root, I think. I.e. seems possible, but need to actually work out if the 2nd type of "geosynchronous orbit" does exist - I'm too lazy for that.
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