Time Travel is Science Fiction

paddoboy said:
Motor Daddy my dear fellow, if you want to accept ghosts, be my guest.
Time travel has many theoretical possibilities and applications governed by GR
Ghosts do not...Neither is God, and that's why that is also a non scientific answer.
But if you chose God, then once again, be my guest. I prefer science.
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I didn't ask you if I accept ghosts, I asked you if GR forbids ghosts. A simple yes GR forbids ghosts, or no GR does not forbid ghosts will do for an answer. I'll try to ask more clear this time using an example that you understand.

1. Does GR forbid time travel?
2. Does GR forbid ghosts?
3. Does GR forbid peanut butter sandwiches?

See how this works? In your reply you should list 1, 2, and 3. After each number there should be a yes or no. Three questions and three yes or no answers. See? If you need help just say so and I'll do what I can to help you along in your pursuit of answers. But they must be answered, or you get a zero.
 
paddoboy said:
I failed to add to that list of methods, a Kerr metric BH....or a spinning BH and its ergosphere, from whence escape is possible, and also the subsequent ring singularity, in which we could safely pass through, if we calculated the correct trajectory, so that the gravity pull from all sides canceled itself out.
That sufficiently advanced civilistion would be handy though. ;)
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Actually [ ignoring the funnies, :)] the Kerr metric BH might be our best bet for this sufficiently advanced civilisation....A region between EH's where one could return,[ergosphere] and passing through the axis of spin directly into the middle of the ring singularity.
Just one problem.....where would one emerge is debatable. :)
 
http://plus.maths.org/content/time-travel-allowed
In brief: The laws of physics allow members of an exceedingly advanced civilisation to travel forward in time as fast as they might wish. Backward time travel is another matter; we do not know whether it is allowed by the laws of physics, and the answer is likely controlled by a set of physical laws that we do not yet understand at all well: the laws of quantum gravity. In order for humans to travel forward in time very rapidly, or backward (if allowed at all), we would need technology far far beyond anything we are capable of today.

Travelling forward in time rapidly
Albert Einstein's relativistic laws of physics tell us that time is "personal". If you and I move differently or are at different locations in a gravitational field, then the rate of flow of time that you experience (the rate that governs the ticking of any very good clock you carry with you and that governs the aging of your body) is different from the rate of time flow that I experience. (Einstein used the phrase "time is relative"; I prefer "time is personal".)


This personal character of time allows one person to travel forward in time much faster than another, a phenomenon embodied in the so-called twins paradox. One twin (call him Methuselah) stays at home on Earth; the other (Florence) travels out into the Universe at high speed and then returns. When they meet at the end of the trip, Florence will have aged far less than Methuselah; for example, Florence may have aged 30 years and Methuselah 4,500 years. (The twin that ages least is the one who undergoes huge accelerations, to get up to high speed, slow down, reverse direction, then accelerate back and slow to a halt on Earth. The twin who leads the sedate life ages the most.)

A massive black hole is another vehicle for rapid forward time travel: If Methuselah remains in orbit high above the event horizonof a massive black hole (say, one whose gravitational pull is that of a billion suns) and Florence travels down to near the event horizon and hovers just above it for, say, 30 years and then returns, Methuselah can have aged thousands or millions of years. This is because time flows much more slowly near a black hole's event horizon (where the acceleration of gravity is huge) than far above it (where one can live sedately).

These time travel phenomena have been tested in the laboratory. Muons — short-lived elementary particles — travelling around and around in a storage ring at 0.9994 of the speed of light, at the Brookhaven National Laboratory on Long Island, New York, have been seen to age 29 times more slowly than muons at rest in the laboratory. And atomic clocks on the surface of the Earth have been seen to run more slowly than atomic clocks high above the Earth's surface — more slowly by about 4 parts in 10 billion.

more.....
http://plus.maths.org/content/time-travel-allowed
 
paddoboy said:
Actually [ ignoring the funnies, :)] the Kerr metric BH might be our best bet for this sufficiently advanced civilisation....A region between EH's where one could return,[ergosphere] and passing through the axis of spin directly into the middle of the ring singularity.
Just one problem.....where would one emerge is debatable. :)
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Could this possibly lower my electric bill?
 
Motor Daddy said:
Could this possibly lower my electric bill?
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Not really [:rolleyes: more attempts at humour] but it does support the accepted fact that I have continually stated, that being that the laws of physics and GR do not forbid time travel, and in fact support possible theoretical apllications of how it can be achieved.
You could learn a lot.
 
paddoboy said:
Not really [:rolleyes: more attempts at humour] but it does support the accepted fact that I have continually stated, that being that the laws of physics and GR do not forbid time travel, and in fact support possible theoretical apllications of how it can be achieved.
You could learn a lot.
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You have not told me what you mean by "time travel" yet.

What do you mean when you say the words "time travel"?
 
billvon said:
Agreed, as is manned travel to Mars. Although in 1950, human beings on the Moon was science fiction as well.

Cool that we are starting to learn how things like time travel (Tipler cylinder) and faster than light travel (Alcubierre drive) might be possible though.
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Nice early post that actually hit home what this thread is about.
 
Billy T said:
OK that is consistent with your claim the traveling twin DID "time traveled" as he dies later than this brother - lives to see his 150th birthday on earth's calendars.
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That just appears to be a cheapening of scientific facts....or to support your other concept of time not being real.
The travelling twin not only lives to see his brother long dead and buried, he returns to an Earth around 230 years in the future, while he and his clock have only aged both biologically and mechanically by 12 months.
 
paddoboy said:
The travelling twin not only lives to see his brother long dead and buried, he returns to an Earth around 230 years in the future, while he and his clock have only aged both biologically and mechanically by 12 months.
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I dug this one up from years ago. I see my language improved but the content is still 100%, as usual!!


The Rocket Ship

Twin brothers are standing next to each other on Earth. One brother is showing the other brother his new rocket ship. He says "this baby will go from 0 to 93,000 miles per second (.5c) in one second." He explains to the brother that an acceleration rate of 93,000 miles/sec^2 is the rate of change of velocity. If an object's initial velocity is zero, and the object accelerates (thrusts) at the rate of 93,000 mi/sec^2 for one second, one second later the object will have traveled a distance of 46,500 miles, and will be traveling at the velocity of 93,000 mi./sec.

The brother says, "cool, can I take a spin?" The other brother says, "no problem." The brother immediately jumps into the rocket, ready to go. The rocket ship has on board data acquisition systems that will record the exact distance traveled per time interval, and a state of the art time device. The ship also has a accelerometer that records the acceleration of the ship at all times in every direction.

The brother flips the switch that activates the data acquisition systems and the max thrust engines at the same time. He turns off the thrust when one second has elapsed. He is now traveling at the velocity of 93,000 miles/sec. The brother continues to travel at that velocity for 10 seconds at which time he reverses thrust and "decelerates" at the rate of 93,000 miles/sec^2 for a duration of 1 second.

His velocity is now zero miles per second and he is 1,023,000 miles away from his brother. He just traveled a total of 1,023,000 miles in the duration of 12 seconds. The brother decides to get some sleep.

Exactly 8 hours after arriving, the brother activates all systems, including max thrust that starts the return journey. The brother accelerates at the same rate (93,000 miles/sec^2) for one second. After one second has elapsed he turns off thrust. He again travels at the velocity of 93,000 miles per second for 10 seconds, at which time he "decelerates" at the rate of 93,000 miles per second (reverse thrust). Total elapsed time of return travel is 12 seconds, and again, the distance traveled is 1,023,000 miles.

The ship traveled 1,023,000 miles in 12 seconds in one direction, and 8 hours later traveled 1,023,000 miles in 12 seconds in the opposite direction.

Actual travel distance- 2,046,000 miles
Actual travel time- 24 seconds
Layover time- 8 hours
Total time- 8 hours 24 seconds
Max acceleration- 93,000 mi/sec^2
Min acceleration-0
Maximum velocity- 93,000 mi./sec
Minimum velocity-0
Average speed- 85,250 mi./sec
 
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Motor Daddy said:
I dug this one up from years ago. I see my language improved but the content is still 100%, as usual!!


The Rocket Ship

Twin brothers are standing next to each other on Earth. One brother is showing the other brother his new rocket ship. He says "this baby will go from 0 to 93,000 miles per second (.5c) in one second." He explains to the brother that an acceleration rate of 93,000 miles/sec^2 is the rate of change of velocity. If an object's initial velocity is zero, and the object accelerates (thrusts) at the rate of 93,000 mi/sec^2 for one second, one second later the object will have traveled a distance of 46,500 miles, and will be traveling at the velocity of 93,000 mi./sec.

The brother says, "cool, can I take a spin?" The other brother says, "no problem." The brother immediately jumps into the rocket, ready to go. The rocket ship has on board data acquisition systems that will record the exact distance traveled per time interval, and a state of the art time device. The ship also has a accelerometer that records the acceleration of the ship at all times in every direction.

The brother flips the switch that activates the data acquisition systems and the max thrust engines at the same time. He turns off the thrust when one second has elapsed. He is now traveling at the velocity of 93,000 miles/sec. The brother continues to travel at that velocity for 10 seconds at which time he reverses thrust and "decelerates" at the rate of 93,000 miles/sec^2 for a duration of 1 second.

His velocity is now zero miles per second and he is 1,023,000 miles away from his brother. He just traveled a total of 1,023,000 miles in the duration of 12 seconds. The brother decides to get some sleep.

Exactly 8 hours after arriving, the brother activates all systems, including max thrust that starts the return journey. The brother accelerates at the same rate (93,000 miles/sec^2) for one second. After one second has elapsed he turns off thrust. He again travels at the velocity of 93,000 miles per second for 10 seconds, at which time he "decelerates" at the rate of 93,000 miles per second (reverse thrust). Total elapsed time of return travel is 12 seconds, and again, the distance traveled is 1,023,000 miles.

The ship traveled 1,023,000 miles in 12 seconds in one direction, and 8 hours later traveled 1,023,000 miles in 12 seconds in the opposite direction.

Actual travel distance- 2,046,000 miles
Actual travel time- 24 seconds
Layover time- 8 hours
Total time- 8 hours 24 seconds
Max acceleration- 93,000 mi/sec^2
Min acceleration-0
Maximum velocity- 93,000 mi./sec
Minimum velocity-0
Average speed- 85,250 mi./sec
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And the third brother records no change in time, relative to his reference frame of the other brothers.
 
theorist-constant12345 said:
If you add a third observer to any relativistic explanation, they always record, no change in time. And yes meaning, change it from twins to triplets, and a whole new story of time arrives.
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If you feel a third observer is important to the scenario, then by all means, post your numbers for the third brother. Don't just talk, act! Show me the numbers!!
 
Motor Daddy said:
If you feel a third observer is important to the scenario, then by all means, post your numbers for the third brother. Don't just talk, act! Show me the numbers!!
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The 3rd observer is at the half way stage of distance travelled , by the two other brothers. His velocity is 0, in a stationary reference frame relative to the brothers in motion.
Or the better way with new numeric values,
3 brothers linear to each other equal spaced apart.
1

2

3

Brother 2 , is in a stationary reference frame at 0 velocity.
Brother 1 travels at c anti-clockwise, perpendicular to brother 2.
Brother 3 travels at c clockwise perpendicular to brother 2.
Brothers 1,2 and 3, are all unaware they are also travelling left to right.

If you want to add your numeric values to relative brother, please do, but you will see time never changes, and time travel, looked at based on ''time'' , and travelling backwards in ''time'', is not the correct way to look at time travel.
Time travel is possible, relative to stages of evolution of galaxies. One galaxy being younger or older than ours, relating to past and future.
 
What about the 8 hours of sleep and the fact that the ship traveled along a single axis and back, not clockwise and such??
 
Motor Daddy said:
What about the 8 hours of sleep and the fact that the ship traveled along a single axis and back, not clockwise and such??
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It does not really matter, Consider even if brother 1 stopped at 180 degrees relative to starting point, at the exact time brother 1 stops, brother 3 is exactly 180 degrees to his starting position.
But in neither instant, is there any change relative to brother two, all three brothers, are moving left to right unaware,
The radius never changes, relative to all brothers, they all equally move along in equally proportion.
If both 1 and 3, stop relatively at 90 degrees and 270 degrees, one is not in the future and one in the past and one in the present. They all move relatively equal to timing.

I know you explained a linearity, consider the perpendicular and also the linearity in the explanation. And also consider our perception of the Visual Universe, is to u-turn at the outer limits.

Added- Change brothers to Caesium atoms, relative to brother 1 and 3 , there is no change, relative to 2 there is a change in timing of 1 and 3, but relative to observer 4<outside observer>, there is still no change in time.
 
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theorist-constant12345 said:
It does not really matter, Consider even if brother 1 stopped at 180 degrees relative to starting point, at the exact time brother 1 stops, brother 3 is exactly 180 degrees to his starting position.
But in neither instant, is there any change relative to brother two, all three brothers, are moving left to right unaware,
The radius never changes, relative to all brothers, they all equally move along in equally proportion.
If both 1 and 3, stop relatively at 90 degrees and 270 degrees, one is not in the future and one in the past and one in the present. They all move relatively equal to timing.

I know you explained a linearity, consider the perpendicular and also the linearity in the explanation. And also consider our perception of the Visual Universe, is to u-turn at the outer limits.
Click to expand...

Post your numbers to my scenario. You keep talking and saying nothing. Post up your numbers, or do you not have the numbers?
 
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