spuriousmonkey said:
if you have sense, then it will make sense.
Thoughts on Modesty in Islam
- Thread starter Proud_Muslim
- Start date
if you have sense, then it will make sense.
Proud_Muslim said:
it has too many words missing to make sense!
Proud Muslem,
From your discourse you sound firm in your beliefs in the equality of both genders and I respect this.
It may also be true that the majority of Muslem peoples are of similar implied and other integrity as you have tried to show us.
It is an unfortunate reality that what you are telling us is contrary to the reality of the worlds state of terror caused by be it may extremist elements of your faith.
If I had a wish I would wish that all Muslems read your words and behave accordingly and that women are no longer left uneducated, beaten for minor indescretions and subjected to servitude by their male masters at a global scale.
It is not here that you should be posting but at forums where Muslems preach extremist views about Islam and extreme religious bigotry by Islam as being acceptable.
Here in the west we mostly already share views of equality of genders etc and most importantly we attempt to achieve religious tolerance and not the bigotry we some times see displayed by some religions.
Your words tell me that you are trying to defend the integrity of Islam....I would suggest that you fight your cause where it is needed and where it will achieve what you desire and that is with other more extreme Muslems.
Then when you are successful and Muslem women enjoy the same equality and rights as they do in the West Come back and tell us of your success.....
But I want to see it happen...like no terrorism, no planes flying in to buildings, no beatings on TV......educated children regardless of gender......hospital care and birth control rights etc etc etc......
In fact a good place to start is the Charter of Human Rights ( United nations 1948 ) have a read and ask your self......how close are you?
From your discourse you sound firm in your beliefs in the equality of both genders and I respect this.
It may also be true that the majority of Muslem peoples are of similar implied and other integrity as you have tried to show us.
It is an unfortunate reality that what you are telling us is contrary to the reality of the worlds state of terror caused by be it may extremist elements of your faith.
If I had a wish I would wish that all Muslems read your words and behave accordingly and that women are no longer left uneducated, beaten for minor indescretions and subjected to servitude by their male masters at a global scale.
It is not here that you should be posting but at forums where Muslems preach extremist views about Islam and extreme religious bigotry by Islam as being acceptable.
Here in the west we mostly already share views of equality of genders etc and most importantly we attempt to achieve religious tolerance and not the bigotry we some times see displayed by some religions.
Your words tell me that you are trying to defend the integrity of Islam....I would suggest that you fight your cause where it is needed and where it will achieve what you desire and that is with other more extreme Muslems.
Then when you are successful and Muslem women enjoy the same equality and rights as they do in the West Come back and tell us of your success.....
But I want to see it happen...like no terrorism, no planes flying in to buildings, no beatings on TV......educated children regardless of gender......hospital care and birth control rights etc etc etc......
In fact a good place to start is the Charter of Human Rights ( United nations 1948 ) have a read and ask your self......how close are you?
spuriousmonkey said:
or it has so much sense that you cant find a words to refute it !!
Islam is unlike christianity and other religions look at sex as way to pleasure oneself ( for both men and women ) and to procreate...Islam indeed does make sense.
analysis:
Islam is unlike christianity and other religions; look at sex as way to pleasure oneself ( for both men and women ) and to procreate...Islam indeed does make sense.
- the three parts have no connection to each other
or
Islam is unlike christianity; And other religions look at sex as way to pleasure oneself ( for both men and women ) and to procreate...Islam indeed does make sense.
- a grammatical nightmare
and 'Islam indeed does make sense' has no connection with the previous sentence.
So an educated guess would be that the sentence is crooked and incorrect. But of course it is modest of you to tell me that you wrote a perfectly good sentence which I should be able to understand. Newsflash; it is a shit sentence that doesn't make sense.
You modest muslim.
analysis:
Islam is unlike christianity and other religions; look at sex as way to pleasure oneself ( for both men and women ) and to procreate...Islam indeed does make sense.
- the three parts have no connection to each other
or
Islam is unlike christianity; And other religions look at sex as way to pleasure oneself ( for both men and women ) and to procreate...Islam indeed does make sense.
- a grammatical nightmare
and 'Islam indeed does make sense' has no connection with the previous sentence.
So an educated guess would be that the sentence is crooked and incorrect. But of course it is modest of you to tell me that you wrote a perfectly good sentence which I should be able to understand. Newsflash; it is a shit sentence that doesn't make sense.
You modest muslim.
Quantum Quack said:
This is what your biased media show you, they dont show you that the spots in the world where NON MUSLIM SO CALLED TERRORISM is raging is far more than the places where Muslims involved.
I agree that there are some problems in some muslim countries and so in America ( 4 american women are ** murdered** every day as a result of domestic violence ) but your media show you only the bad side:
rememebr, every story has 2 sides, you are only seeing one side, for example, your media does not tell you that the president of the largest Muslim country in the world ( Indonesia ) is indeed a Muslim woman !!! they dont tell you that AMERICA failed to elect a single woman as its president !
Your media does not tell you that every 12 seconds an american woman is battered and that about 8 million american women are raped every year !
They only concentrate on the bad stories because they sell well for the advertisment space ! imagine if I take my camera and went to the states or to the UK and start filiming about the western women who suffer so much abuse ( domestic violece ) and then come back home to Syria and broadcast this film on national TV telling my people: this is how they treat women in America !! what do you think the reaction would be ????
There is gross deliberate misinformation against Islam and Muslims.
I do fight extremists all the time, but I dont think it is fair to make terrorism or extremism exculsivly Muslim, look at the jewish extremists and terrorists in Palestine, look what they are doing to the palestineans ! why we dont hear about this jewish terror ????
Or look at the Tamil tigers ( hindu terrorists ), why we dont hear about their suicide bombings ??? or the maoist rebels in Nepol, why we dont hear about their terrorism ?
Or the Lord Resistance Army in Uganda, a chrisitan terrorist organization that massacred thousands of innocent civilians?
Or the christian serbs and their massacres against Muslims in Bosnia ??
Or the Russian terrorism against Muslims in chechnya ??
Or the Indian terrorism against Muslims in Keshmir ??
Here is a link about the above massacres, just click on the left side of the page on the country name and you will see live pitures:
http://www.alkhilafah.info/massacres/
I agree with you, but what I see here is pure hate and ISLAMOPHOBIA against my faith, I think it is my duty also to expell some lies and myths displayed by some posters here about Islam.
You sound very reasonable person and I will be very happy to discuss anything you want about Islam and Muslims.
I think you are so mistaken to think Western Women enjoy so much equality and rights, I believe Muslim women in many Muslim states enjoy more rights than western women, let me show you some statistics about women abuse in the west:
National Statistics
Domestic violence has become one of the most common of all crimes. Here are some National Statistics:
Every 12 to 15 seconds a woman is battered in the United States.
95% of all domestic violence is committed by males against their female partners. (NCADV)
Domestic violence is the largest single cause of injury to women in the U.S.- more than injuries from auto accidents, muggings and rapes combined. (Surgeon General of the U.S.)
Estimates range from 960,000 incidents of violence against a current or former spouse, boyfriend, or girlfriend per year (U.S. Department of Justice, Violence by Intimates: Analysis of Data on Crimes by Current or Former Spouses, Boyfriends, and Girlfriends, March 1998) to three million women who are physically abused by their husband or boyfriend per year. (The Commonwealth Fund, Health Concerns Across a Woman's Lifespan: 1998 Survey of Women's Health, May 1999)
Around the world, at least one in every three women has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused during her lifetime.( Heise, L., Ellsberg, M. and Gottemoeller, M. Ending Violence Against Women. Population Reports, Series L, No. 11., December 1999)
Nearly one-third of American women (31 percent) report being physically or sexually abused by a husband or boyfriend at some point in their lives, according to a 1998 Commonwealth Fund survey. (The Commonwealth Fund, Health Concerns Across a Woman's Lifespan: 1998 Survey of Women's Health, May 1999)
Intimate partner violence is primarily a crime against women. In 1999, women accounted for 85 percent of the victims of intimate partner violence (671,110 total) and men accounted for 15 percent of the victims (120,100 total). (Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report, Intimate Partner Violence and Age of Victim, 1993-99, October 2001)
While women are less likely than men to be victims of violent crimes overall, women are five to eight times more likely than men to be victimized by an intimate partner. (U.S. Department of Justice, Violence by Intimates: Analysis of Data on Crimes by Current or Former Spouses, Boyfriends, and Girlfriends, March 1998) From 1993 to 1998, victimization by an intimate accounted for 22 percent of the violence experienced by females. It accounted for three percent of the violent crime sustained by males. (U.S. Department of Justice, Intimate Partner Violence, May 2000.)
Women are seven to 14 times more likely than men to report suffering severe physical assaults from an intimate partner. (National Institute of Justice and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Prevalence, Incidence, and Consequences of Violence Against Women: Findings from the National Violence Against Women Survey, November 1998.)
On average, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends in this country every day. In 1999, 1,642 murders were attributed to intimates; 74 percent of the murder victims. (Bureau of Justice Statistics Special Report, Intimate Partner Violence and Age of Victim, 1993-99, October 2001)
If you dont want to see planes flying in to buildings, stop sending planes flying into our air spaces and stop sending your bombers to kill our civilians.
Given the above statistics about women abuse in the west, I think it is you guys who need to ask yourselfs, how close are you to this charter ?
I find it very hypocritical, how the majority of this forum dismisses ETI and "pseudo science" calling it nonsense. Yet, engage PM's nonsense, which really is nonsense in the true sense of the word.
Truth hurts, it specifically hurts when it comes from MUSLIMS.
God help you !!
Proud_Muslim=No one has the right to determine what women should dress but the ONE who created them, GOD and God told them in the Quran to be modest.
Greco=How come God dint say anything to the indians in South America or the people of New Guine or most of the tribes of Africa. Does your God only like Arabs? Or maybe just like the Jews you claim that you are the chosen people?If God was fair he would pass the word to everyone at once and not depend on some self appointed conduits to pass the word of God.
PM=It is only religion that elevated people from barbarism and CANNIBALISM and adulterous age to the age of purity, modesty, family and civilization.
Greco=Greece had a magificent civilization before Islam was created and it was partialy religion that set back Greek civilization. Dont think I'm picking on Muslims, I think all religions are dangerous, counter-productive and delusional.
Greco=How come God dint say anything to the indians in South America or the people of New Guine or most of the tribes of Africa. Does your God only like Arabs? Or maybe just like the Jews you claim that you are the chosen people?If God was fair he would pass the word to everyone at once and not depend on some self appointed conduits to pass the word of God.
PM=It is only religion that elevated people from barbarism and CANNIBALISM and adulterous age to the age of purity, modesty, family and civilization.
Greco=Greece had a magificent civilization before Islam was created and it was partialy religion that set back Greek civilization. Dont think I'm picking on Muslims, I think all religions are dangerous, counter-productive and delusional.
The only reason one can find statistics about abuse of women in the west is because someone is trying hard to eradicate this problem. I doubt accurate statistics could be found of abuse of women in muslim countries because it is not considered a problem, so ingrained is abuse into muslim culture.
34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.(Qu'orn, Sura al-Nisa´ 4:34).
34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.(Qu'orn, Sura al-Nisa´ 4:34).
Proud Muslim if you want to go around all covered up please do but do not dare to tell women how they must dress. If they chose to follow your religion that is their right but the rest of us have no intention of allowing anyone to dictate to us how we dress. Religion is a personal choice and you have no right to foist your religious beliefs on others.
Proud Muslem,
Some times the price of freedom can be very high. N.B. Freedom does not necessarilly equate with Peace.
When you look at the USA and the freedoms that it's political and social systems allow you have to admit it's incredible how successful they are.
Is it any wonder that freedom can cause problems?
Is it any wonder that freedom even if painful is worth striving for?
Self determination free from religious imprisonment is never an easy path.
Some times the price of freedom can be very high. N.B. Freedom does not necessarilly equate with Peace.
When you look at the USA and the freedoms that it's political and social systems allow you have to admit it's incredible how successful they are.
Is it any wonder that freedom can cause problems?
Is it any wonder that freedom even if painful is worth striving for?
Self determination free from religious imprisonment is never an easy path.
candy said:
Well candi,your hedonistic moraly corrupt western societies are indeed dictating what western women should dress, if you dont dress sexually then you are peice of garbage and you know it.
let us look and compare:
This is a picture of a typical Muslim woman. Pure, innocent, virgin (until marriage) and non sexual. A true man would be willing to die for a true and blessed angel of that kind, because if she's faithful to her GOD Almighty, then she will definitely be faithful and honorable to her family.
Even though I tried to pick the least sexual pictures, but in general, this is what a typical western woman would look like when she is at either the beach (wearing bikinis) or health club, where 95% to 99% of her body is totally exposed to men. cheap meat worth nothing.
I am not generalizing all western women. I am certain there are many Angelic ones out there who remain virgins until marriage and are non-sexual, and they are fully devoted to GOD Almighty. But I believe that it is safe to say that more than 90% of the Christian women world-wide are Satanic.
.Quantum Quack said:
America is NOT free, it is controled by zionists and corporate ethics in which the poor and the weak are crushed.
Some times the borders between freedom and chaos become so tiny.
Proud Muslem, can I ask you teh same question I want to ask Osama Bin Ladin?
What is your solution to terrorism?
What would you have the world do if you had the power to govern the world?
What is your solution to terrorism?
What would you have the world do if you had the power to govern the world?
Proud_Muslim said:Well candi,your hedonistic moraly corrupt western societies are indeed dictating what western women should dress, if you dont dress sexually then you are peice of garbage and you know it.
let us look and compare:
This is a picture of a typical Muslim woman. Pure, innocent, virgin (until marriage) and non sexual. A true man would be willing to die for a true and blessed angel of that kind, because if she's faithful to her GOD Almighty, then she will definitely be faithful and honorable to her family.
Even though I tried to pick the least sexual pictures, but in general, this is what a typical western woman would look like when she is at either the beach (wearing bikinis) or health club, where 95% to 99% of her body is totally exposed to men. cheap meat worth nothing.
I am not generalizing all western women. I am certain there are many Angelic ones out there who remain virgins until marriage and are non-sexual, and they are fully devoted to GOD Almighty. But I believe that it is safe to say that more than 90% of the Christian women world-wide are Satanic.
So according the muslims the perfect picture of a woman is a child? Perverts.