Thought Transference

[Robittybob1]

These Early Edition type experiences are not really a premonition for the events have already happened but just that dream of what is going to appear in the news the next day. That is why I was thinking is it a type of thought transference?
On page 2 of the thread I gave you a link to another forum where I "solve" a murder case using dream information as a guidance tool. No one commented on it so I mention it again.
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthr...ual-Guidance-assists-in-Scott-Watson-s-Pardon

OK we are still waiting for the pardon to be announced.

 

[Arioch]

@Rob --

He was using some low frequency like 1 in a million and multiplying that by the thousands of millions of people on Earth.
So that is why I am saying what is the odds of it happening to just one person every night for a year?

You just grabbed the wrong end of entirely the wrong stick. You should have grabbed the one about making sure to take all of the data into account. You need to count the hits and the misses.

You also apparently missed the bit about the fact that we all dream about multiple things every night.

 

[Robittybob1]

Yes, but you're trying to use it as evidence of precognative dreams.

Post facto.

Are you serious?

What am I claiming? It is you that are making the claims about me. All I'm saying is I get this weird connection. Some can see the connection but a true skeptic like yourself would want my subconscious side to operate entirely in concious thought. Who dreams like that?

 

[Robittybob1]

@Rob --



You just grabbed the wrong end of entirely the wrong stick. You should have grabbed the one about making sure to take all of the data into account. You need to count the hits and the misses.

You also apparently missed the bit about the fact that we all dream about multiple things every night.

I thought he meant the dream has multiple facets to it, like mine did, little pictures telling the entire jumbled story. It is unlikely that you remember more than one dream per night.
You do dream every hour or so but how many do you recall?
Dreams I don't recall are not dreams that would count.

 

[AlexG]

What am I claiming? It is you that are making the claims about me.

You are claiming that you have precognitive dreams. :shrug:

Are you having memory disfunction?

 

[Robittybob1]

You are claiming that you have precognitive dreams. :shrug:

Are you having memory disfunction?

I've gone back through the posts, and I get close to making that claim but not quite claiming it. So I'll let you, the readers, decide what I should say about it.
Arioch seems to want to go for the coincidence factor, or the hit and miss ratio. What is the acceptable hit and miss ratio?
Well I do have precognitive dreams as well. Also like in the murder investigation I had dreams of the past. But here I am just limiting my main discussion to the "Early Edition" type phenomena which is by far the most frequent.

 

[Arioch]

@Rob --

Dreams I don't recall are not dreams that would count.

Obviously dreams that you don't remember are difficult to count because you don't remember having them, though we do have the ability to(under controlled conditions) to identify when a person is dreaming, so they can still be counted. And they should be, because otherwise we're missing out on important pieces of data.

However to just demonstrate precognitive dreaming a dream journal, kept under observation(so you can't just make up dreams after the fact) and written in every morning before any news is watched. This could, if the variables are properly controlled, potentially demonstrate precognitive dreaming though the mechanics of it couldn't be identified through such an experiment.

Arioch seems to want to go for the coincidence factor, or the hit and miss ratio.

Actually what I'm saying is that precog dreams can't be demonstrated without taking both the hits and the misses into account so that we know what's actually going on instead of what people feel is going on.

And as of now there's really nothing here that can't be explained by coincidence. Coincidence is more than powerful enough to explain dreams which reflect events that haven't occurred yet, especially considering the incredibly vague nature of dreams. I highly doubt that anyone will ever be able to overturn that.

 

[Robittybob1]

Would my test have to be compared to a control. Like you keep a dream diary too and see if there is just as much coincidence in your dreams as mine?
I would have no doubt we could overturn any claim it was just coincidence. But as I have indicated I assign this phenomena to a spiritual cause (since the scientific reason is unknown) I have to be in a spiritual frame of mind and that requires the right situation. These threads last a while so there is no rush, it will happen.
In the meantime think about the need for some controls.

 

[Arioch]

Ideally there would be large groups of people keeping diaries, preferably several thousand people. Perhaps a group that knows what the experiment is about, a group that doesn't, and a group that spends the experiment in isolation from the outside world to prevent any contamination.

 

[Robittybob1]

Ideally there would be large groups of people keeping diaries, preferably several thousand people. Perhaps a group that knows what the experiment is about, a group that doesn't, and a group that spends the experiment in isolation from the outside world to prevent any contamination.

I have found people on the whole would be unlikely to share their dreams. Some dreams are so bizarre who would want to admit to them. So you are looking at a real difficult set up if you were going to involve so many people. I would like to see it done for it has truly baffled me for 40+ odd years as to why (a proportion) of my dreams are in sync as they seem to be.

 

[scheherazade]

I tend to dream but seldom, likely because of my whacky schedule and usually only sleeping a few hours at a time, with the occasional 'crash and burn' of 10-13 hours.

On a different but somewhat similar topic, I offer the following for discussion.

From time to time, I may have what seems to me to be an 'original thought'. Most often I will discuss such with hubby, as he is usually quite interested when I offer to share my ideas.

To put this in perspective, we are both introverts and almost never socialize beyond the workplace. Our outside contact is very limited.

I have noticed that within 24-48 hours, my 'original thought' seems to crop up on the radio, or my mother mentions that she read about it in the paper, or it is appearing on the local or CBC television news.

I will turn to hubby and remark, "Weren't we just discussing that concept as being new to us?" To which he will affirm.

Damn coincidences anyway. It appears there truly is nothing new under the sun.

 

[Robittybob1]

It is like if you hear a new word and understand it, you will then hear it being used soon after. Maybe that is how our brains work, for a while we become sensitised to the idea. So your new idea was already there but you hadn't noticed, then you become sensitised to it because you have spoken about it. It is harder to think of it like we have a global pool of ideas which some can tap into.
Problems are worldwide so many minds are thinking of the problem at the same time.

 

[Search & Destroy]

I tend to dream but seldom, likely because of my whacky schedule and usually only sleeping a few hours at a time, with the occasional 'crash and burn' of 10-13 hours.

I find the dreams always occur, it's just that we forget them. If you keep a dream journal every day after just two weeks you are guaranteed to remember 1500+ words about your dreams.

Damn coincidences anyway. It appears there truly is nothing new under the sun.

Ha yeah that's the problem. I spent a lot of my time trying to invent things, whether it be a physical problem or a new niche or whatever it is. 99.9% of the time any idea is already taken, and that is why competition analysis is so important. The new ideas exist, but only as small dots on an already painted landscape. Nowadays, you have to 'spin' an idea a few times and add an extra variable before it is truly plagiarism-free.

---

So I'm going to spend some time with a cat soon. What visualization techniques would you use to get the cat to roll-over or do something else peculiar? I'd like to have a go at it.

 

[Arioch]

@Rob --

Really? We live in a world with a human population of over six billion people, you really don't think that, given the power of the internet, we couldn't scrounge up a couple of thousand willing to write a dream diary under controlled condition for money? I think that I would find that more unbelievable than precognitive dreams. Hell, if we agreed to give them free lodging, food, and a physical(to ensure that they were physically healthy) while the experiment took place I'd be willing that we could easily pull millions of homeless people off the streets.

 

[Robittybob1]

@Rob --

Really? We live in a world with a human population of over six billion people, you really don't think that, given the power of the internet, we couldn't scrounge up a couple of thousand willing to write a dream diary under controlled condition for money? I think that I would find that more unbelievable than precognitive dreams. Hell, if we agreed to give them free lodging, food, and a physical(to ensure that they were physically healthy) while the experiment took place I'd be willing that we could easily pull millions of homeless people off the streets.

Have you got a source of funds?
OK those that read this post - reply to it telling us how likely you would be in being a test subject in a thought transference experiment? Without pay.

 

[scheherazade]

I find the dreams always occur, it's just that we forget them. If you keep a dream journal every day after just two weeks you are guaranteed to remember 1500+ words about your dreams.

Even upon immediately awakening, there are very seldom any lingering thoughts. The few times that I have had intense dreams, I can recall them, though they occurred years ago. Of course I must dream, but I do not often recall even a hint. I have experienced several concussions in life and wonder if that may also be a factor?

Ha yeah that's the problem. I spent a lot of my time trying to invent things, whether it be a physical problem or a new niche or whatever it is. 99.9% of the time any idea is already taken, and that is why competition analysis is so important. The new ideas exist, but only as small dots on an already painted landscape. Nowadays, you have to 'spin' an idea a few times and add an extra variable before it is truly plagiarism-free.

It has been many months since I have had one of those 'AHA!' moments. With so many people on the planet it would seem more unusual for there not to be several people thinking along somewhat similar lines of logic and extrapolation. Not exactly identical, but close enough that they will arrive at the same destination/conclusion.

So I'm going to spend some time with a cat soon. What visualization techniques would you use to get the cat to roll-over or do something else peculiar? I'd like to have a go at it.

Good luck with that, lol.... Cats interact on their own terms. It is far more likely that the cat will influence you to do something peculiar.

Regarding the visualizing technique and horses, I climbed aboard my 19 month old gelding yesterday for the first time. I had no plans to do that for a few months yet, but he was watching me very intently as I was working with a mare and it was obvious that he wanted to be part of such activity. We have had two weeks of cold weather and the horses, though well fed and cared for, were bored out of their gourd. I am their chief source of 'live entertainment', lol.

So, when I was done with the mare, I led him to the center of the training area and put my left foot into the stirrup, stepped up, and just leaned across the saddle, so that he could experience seeing something on top of him from both sides. I took my foot out of the stirrup and did a 'safety dismount' and the colt side-stepped away, before turning and halting, as I had a hold of the lead rope. I repeated this twice, with the same result.

We went to the round pen and did some liberty work, the colt trotting around the pen in the deep snow in response to my suggestions for change of direction and pace.

After a few minutes of this, we went to the center of the pen and did the step up/slide down routine again, from both sides. This time he did not move away when I slid down.

I visualized my intent of swinging my leg completely over the colt and sitting in the saddle, which I then went on to do.

The colt stood motionless but giving indications of contentment by indications of his ears and soft licking of his lips. I sat for about seven seconds before stepping down by reversing the procedure. The colt's feet did not move.

Unless you are an experienced horseman you might not appreciate how unusual this is or how long 7 seconds can be. (Rodeo riders only have to stay on the bronc or the bull for 8 seconds.)

The majority of people who start horses use a helper when it comes time for that first time in the saddle, usually someone young, agile and fearless, lol....

I am none of the above, yet I have started many horses, always by myself, because I 'teach' them, I don't 'break' them.

Sorry.....this one got away on me. I adore working with horses and forget sometimes that not everyone shares my enthusiasm.

 

[Robittybob1]

@scheherazade I'm a horse lover too. It is quite amazing how they pick up on your thoughts. But they are wild animals at times too, so you must not think you have mastered a colt.

 

[scheherazade]

@scheherazade I'm a horse lover too. It is quite amazing how they pick up on your thoughts. But they are wild animals at times too, so you must not think you have mastered a colt.

You are correct, Robittybob1, that horses are always true to their nature. I have learned to see the world from the horse's perspective and share a strong trust with the animals that I work with.

This particular colt was born on the property, rolled out under the fence and was rescued by me when he was still dripping wet. We share a stronger trust than most and he is an exceptionally smart and kindly animal, yet I never underestimate that he is a horse first and foremost.

 

[Robittybob1]

You are correct, Robittybob1, that horses are always true to their nature. I have learned to see the world from the horse's perspective and share a strong trust with the animals that I work with.

This particular colt was born on the property, rolled out under the fence and was rescued by me when he was still dripping wet. We share a stronger trust than most and he is an exceptionally smart and kindly animal, yet I never underestimate that he is a horse first and foremost.

That early contact is something called desensitisation. We tried it too, rubbing the new born foal all over. Somehow they never forget what happened at that age.
We bought a wild horse that had been running free (like a brumby but in NZ they are called Kaimanawas for that is the region they are running wild).
Once he settled a little, I sent the "mind transference" message to him that if he behaved we would look after him for life. Basically there was a feeling for him akin to “love”. Strongest emotion I have felt for any living thing actually.
I bet you know what I’m talking about. It must be from the years of bonding between horse and man; how we conquered the Earth together. They are a part of the world as much as we are. Think of the battles they fought with us, and work they've done.
Maybe it’s just me being such a romantic… but it was true.

 

[kwhilborn]

Nice Bond.. I've had horses and I've had dogs, but dogs can not replicate humour the way a horse can.

I'd often sit in the corner of the arena reading on my bucket seat, when Peggy would decide to play her game. She would start to charge right at me like she was not going to stop. When she got to about 10 feet away I'd fall off the bucket, and then she would brake and turn, and laugh. If you ever saw a horse laugh it's when she could knock me off my bucket.
My wife was the jumper and trainer, and I'd often just be a mucker and driver, so I didn't have the courage to stand up against a charging horse, and she got me off that bucket more times than I'd like to admit. My tiny wife would stand right up to them as if she were twice their size, but they are damn big animals. We are now divorced and she teaches racehorses full-time at a track near Toronto.
Once in a while I'd start racing them somewhere and made sure I had a good head start. I never did win any of those races either.

There is a researcher who does psychic research with animals (Rupert Sheldrake). His work is good for people who need convincing telepathy is a real thing. They would record how some animals could sense their owners arrival, and was careful to rule out timing, etc. He did another experiment with homing pigeons where he moved their home further and further away while they were out flying.

His work is fun. I have never seen a positive psychic test with an animal first-hand, but believe it is possible.