The Worship of Deliberate Ignorance: The Santa Myth

davewhite04 said:
All i see are atheists ridiculing religion without any research into religion(like reading the bible or koran, bhagavad gita) but simply just spouting the same garbage like a choir, without any intention of civil debate because they think they have all the answers.
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Interesting…. It was actually reading and studying the bible that convinced me that it's BS.
 
davewhite04 said:
No they don't. All i see are atheists ridiculing religion without any research into religion(like reading the bible or koran, bhagavad gita) but simply just spouting the same garbage like a choir, without any intention of civil debate because they think they have all the answers. I don't know why i'm still here, you all talk crap. your position for example, and you are not the worst by far. your foundation is "i thought that the universe is eternal and it all made sense" with that pearl of wisdom you've got up on the pulpit declaring that everything other then your thought is garbage, hitler thought like that. All i'm saying is learning is fun, and that's exactly what you need at this point in time!
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If flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder.
But if spirit came into being because of flesh, it is a wonder of wonders.
 
spidergoat said:
But if spirit came into being because of flesh, it is a wonder of wonders.
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More the CONCEPT of spirit came up as a idea as a false explanation of something not understood

It's a wonder it still hanging around

:)
 
spidergoat said:
If flesh came into being because of spirit, it is a wonder.
But if spirit came into being because of flesh, it is a wonder of wonders.
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I'm leaning towards "because of flesh". People are born because of physical interactions. The seed I don't think has any supernatural properties.

My thoughts are that we chose our bodies at birth, to learn to overcome obstacles, to add experience to a catalogue of experiences, either by living on this planet more than once or even another planet in a different galaxy. The spirit is you, but we are restricted by these bodies that we chose. I think this philosophy is a healthy one to live by.

Basically, choose learning instead of ignorance or you'll learn nothing.
 
davewhite04 said:
I'm leaning towards "because of flesh". People are born because of physical interactions. The seed I don't think has any supernatural properties.

My thoughts are that we chose our bodies at birth, to learn to overcome obstacles, to add experience to a catalogue of experiences, either by living on this planet more than once or even another planet in a different galaxy. The spirit is you, but we are restricted by these bodies that we chose. I think this philosophy is a healthy one to live by.

Basically, choose learning instead of ignorance or you'll learn nothing.
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So, you think there is a god, but he acts through the intermediary of nature?
 
davewhite04 said:
Exactly. Use the God of the bible as an example. He used nature throughout the old testament, somethings might defy the laws of nature, but it's still nature.
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While I think your position is superior to that of traditional god concepts, you still add spirit as the driving force, not natural processes alone, which is the so-called 'wonder of wonders'.
 
spidergoat said:
While I think your position is superior to that of traditional god concepts, you still add spirit as the driving force, not natural processes alone, which is the so-called 'wonder of wonders'.
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I don't think it is superior to anything, it is simply my belief in my reality. Your reality rejects the supernatural(I think), so we go back to science.

The supernatural is beyond scientific understanding and laws of nature.

The sooner you realise that science is not religion and vice versa the sooner you'll start asking relevant questions hopefully.
 
billvon said:
??

That's like saying "I am going faster than the speed limit, but still obeying the speed limit."
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Good metaphor.

An example of defying nature from the Christian perspective(their texts).

Judges 16: 29-30(Samson(nature) pulling down a temple)
Joshua 6:20-21 (Israelite's(nature) destroying City walls)

Matthew 14:22-33 (Jesus(nature) walking on water)
Matthew 14:13-21 (Jesus(nature) feeding 5000 with 5 loaves of bread and two fish)

Examples from the old/new testament.

Is there any difference between the 4 events?
 
davewhite04 said:
Judges 16: 29-30(Samson(nature) pulling down a temple)
Joshua 6:20-21 (Israelite's(nature) destroying City walls)

Matthew 14:22-33 (Jesus(nature) walking on water)
Matthew 14:13-21 (Jesus(nature) feeding 5000 with 5 loaves of bread and two fish)
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I'm not sure what you mean by Jesus(nature.) Are you saying that since it was Jesus, and Jesus is a human, that it was done by nature? I'd have two issues with that.
1) "Man made" is pretty much the opposite of "natural" or "coming from nature" - so it's a confusing definition.
2) Those were initiated by people but involved supernatural powers i.e. an unaided human cannot pull down a temple or walk on water.
 
billvon said:
I'm not sure what you mean by Jesus(nature.) Are you saying that since it was Jesus, and Jesus is a human, that it was done by nature? I'd have two issues with that.
1) "Man made" is pretty much the opposite of "natural" or "coming from nature" - so it's a confusing definition.
2) Those were initiated by people but involved supernatural powers i.e. an unaided human cannot pull down a temple or walk on water.
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1) Man is part of nature.

2) I agree, those were supernatural events.

EDIT: Yes you were right, Jesus(nature) Jesus as human was part of nature.
 
spidergoat said:
Then you cannot say 'the supernatural is'.
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What do you mean? Do you think the question shouldn't be asked because science has no evidence?
This is the definition of special pleading. It's the same universe, but you want different rules to apply.
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This is the definition of bread: flour, milk, eggs touch of salt in the oven for 1 hour, then enjoy.
 
billvon said:
I am often amused that the people most likely to quote Bible passages at you are also the least likely to have read very much of it.
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not only that, they are most likely to be the ones corrupted by materialism(the lust for material possessions like a gambling addict is addicted to gambling) greed & lust
 
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