The Universe has boundary?

If the universe began with the BB and a singularity, as long as we are sufficiently distant from the expanding boundary of the universe we should not observe any significant difference in the distribution of matter.

But we aren't any distance from the "expanding boundary". The entire universe, including the part we're in, is expanding as it has been since the BB.

In the above I was referring to the BB as beginning from a "point" source and expanding outward from there. In that case the universe and/or space could have a globally expanding boundary beyond our observable horizon.

as long as our cosmic horizon is completely contained within a differentiated volume of space or the universe, the universe should appear essentially smooth in all directions.

I don't follow that. Where or what is our cosmic horizon? What's a "differentiated volume" of space?

The above quote from my post is out of context. The qualifying text is as follows, "If as I suggested earlier that initial singularity were describe more as an undifferentiated volume of space, of any dimensions, similar in principal to a super saturated solution and the BB event was an initial disturbance resulting in differentiation,..."

First, our cosmic horizon is that portion of the universe observable from our frame of reference. It does not extend to the global limits of the universe in any model. We currently estimate that to be something like 13.6 billion light years.

As to the differentiation issue, I was describing an essentially steady state model consistent with a BB like initial event. If the universe were initially uniform, as "like" a supper saturated fluid, an event that disturbed that initially uniform state could result in a BB like creation of matter within space. Prior to the event, space and the universe would be uniform, no separations between matter and energy, and after the event, just as with a supper saturated solution, matter and energy could be separated or differentiated. While matter and energy could still be uniformly distributed, space or the universe would no longer be uniform as composed of a single uniform substance or energy. If the universe began in a state similar to a "perfect fluid" this would or could occur instantly throughout. If it were more like a "nearly" perfect fluid the event could expand out from its point of origin much like suggested in the conventional BB model.

As to baryon asymmetry and antimatter: antimatter isn't an "outlier", the probability of antimatter and matter being created is equal today (as in particle physics experiments), and was equal in the beginning. The assumption, given recent data on hep experiments (as in, over the last 50-60 years), is that equal amounts existed at the beginning. So where's all the antimatter?

Your above description is consistent at least in intent with current theory. However, we really do not know what was! We can only project back to some point of origin based on our interpretations of current observations. We do not see equal amounts of matter and antimatter today, in the universe. And while theory predicts that they should have been created in equal amounts, the same theory cannot explain the absence of equal amounts of matter and antimatter, today. This suggests at least some missing information or that current theory is only an approximation.

To this add that all of the experiments we conduct now are based on the physics of today, not the physics that existed at the moment of the BB. Even current BB models suggest a rapid expansion that would be inconsistent with physics as we understand it today. It may very well be that the existence of matter is required for the creation of antimatter, along with conditions that are not and have never existed globally, within the universe. We really do not know what the laws of physics were like during the BB event. All we know is what they seem to be today.
 
In the above I was referring to the BB as beginning from a "point" source and expanding outward from there.

There was no 'outward' expansion. The BB takes place at every point in space, and it has no center.

This is the most commonly misunderstood aspect of the BB.
 
There was no 'outward' expansion. The BB takes place at every point in space, and it has no center.

This is the most commonly misunderstood aspect of the BB.

That would be my assement also.

Still the misunderstanding is not limited to the lay public, there are a fair number of recognized scientists that share the idea that the BB began as a point source and expanded outward from there. That is why I included that description in my comment.
 
That would be my assement also.

Still the misunderstanding is not limited to the lay public, there are a fair number of recognized scientists that share the idea that the BB began as a point source and expanded outward from there. That is why I included that description in my comment.

Talk about speculation. Please review the article below. Many unknown gamma-ray sources detected. Is it possible they are coming from beyond our observable horizon?

Oct 18, 2011: NASA's Fermi team recently released the second catalog of gamma-ray sources detected by their satellite's Large Area Telescope (LAT). Of the 1873 sources found, nearly 600 are complete mysteries. No one knows what they are.

"Fermi sees gamma rays coming from directions in the sky where there are no obvious objects likely to produce gamma rays," says David Thompson, Fermi Deputy Project Scientist from Goddard Space Flight Center.

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/18oct_600mysteries/
 
Talk about speculation. Please review the article below. Many unknown gamma-ray sources detected. Is it possible they are coming from beyond our observable horizon?

That is an interesting article. However, when I use the word observable in the context of an observable cosmic horizon, my intent is not limited to visible light. An observable horizon must include the full range of EM radiation we are able to detect, including gamma-ray sources.

Detecting only gamma-rays from certain areas is problematic as it does not provide the same detail and resolution we have come to expect at lower energy levels. For those areas we really cannot tell much at all about the horizon. We cannot even tell if they! The gamma-rays, originate inside or outside the horizon established for the lower energy EM spectrum.
 
That is an interesting article. However, when I use the word observable in the context of an observable cosmic horizon, my intent is not limited to visible light. An observable horizon must include the full range of EM radiation we are able to detect, including gamma-ray sources.

Detecting only gamma-rays from certain areas is problematic as it does not provide the same detail and resolution we have come to expect at lower energy levels. For those areas we really cannot tell much at all about the horizon. We cannot even tell if they! The gamma-rays, originate inside or outside the horizon established for the lower energy EM spectrum.

The question I have, is how much red shifting can a gamma-ray do before it's not a gamma-ray anymore? I believe we have detected gamma-ray sources close to our observable cosmic horizon, which means they haven't lost much energy in all those billions of light years.
 
The question I have, is how much red shifting can a gamma-ray do before it's not a gamma-ray anymore? I believe we have detected gamma-ray sources close to our observable cosmic horizon, which means they haven't lost much energy in all those billions of light years.

Though the gamma-rays we detect from cosmic sources are far higher energies, it would seem that as they "redshift" losing energy they could eventually reach energy levels equivalent to atomic decay gamma-rays. Note the following from Wiki,

On the other side of the decay energy range, there is effectively no lower limit to gamma energy derived from radioactive decay.

Gamma-rays also have a wavelength range, in addition to an energy level. That almost suggests some mass content, though they are in the EM category and considered massless.

I am really not sure how redshift and/or any energy loss in transit would affect what we observe here on earth. I am not sure anyone could even do a redshift spectrum analysis for gamma-rays.
 
Though the gamma-rays we detect from cosmic sources are far higher energies, it would seem that as they "redshift" losing energy they could eventually reach energy levels equivalent to atomic decay gamma-rays. Note the following from Wiki,

On the other side of the decay energy range, there is effectively no lower limit to gamma energy derived from radioactive decay.

Gamma-rays also have a wavelength range, in addition to an energy level. That almost suggests some mass content, though they are in the EM category and considered massless.

I am really not sure how redshift and/or any energy loss in transit would affect what we observe here on earth. I am not sure anyone could even do a redshift spectrum analysis for gamma-rays.

It seems to me if they are EM, they would have to red shift. But I do acknowledge they are not easy to work with. But I would think they would lose energy to the same degree as any other wavelength over the same distance.
 
outside the universe, time moves backwards.

Lol that is the most intelligent thing I have read on this entire thread:)

All I hear is blah, blah antimatter blah blah redshift blah blah big bang blah blah expanding at a constant rate blah blah boundary Blah uh... What boundary?

Then a short burst of insight. Nice
 
Lol that is the most intelligent thing I have read on this entire thread:)

All I hear is blah, blah antimatter blah blah redshift blah blah big bang blah blah expanding at a constant rate blah blah boundary Blah uh... What boundary?

That's because you don't know shit about physics or cosmology.
 
Lol that is the most intelligent thing I have read on this entire thread:)

All I hear is blah, blah antimatter blah blah redshift blah blah big bang blah blah expanding at a constant rate blah blah boundary Blah uh... What boundary?

Then a short burst of insight. Nice
Yes,
they put an artificial border then scream "look the border" and "what we do not know that does not exist".
 
That's because you don't know shit about physics or cosmology.

That's a very wild assumption... Do you care to elaborate your misunderstanding of my humor?

Or should I pretend I agree with time moving backwards after the "boundary" has been passed? I find that a more interesting conversation. Defending an irrelevant point that does not exist in reality sounds easy against a person of your cognitive capabilities. Which insofar just seems to be the repetition of fact made by men other than yourself.

Tell me does it count as truly intelligent if you had to find out from someone else?

You have no statements of facts to present in this case. If you did you would have posted them along with your insulant insults.
 
Yes,
they put an artificial border then scream "look the border" and "what we do not know that does not exist".
That's hardly an accurate representation of how cosmologists work. If you have to resort to such things in order to ground your anti-relativity axe perhaps you should reevaluate your views.
 
For all those who are interested, this series came out on Discovery Channel, but also you can find it on youtube-the name of the documentary is "Through the wormhole" in this episode "Is there an edge to the universe" (43 minutes):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhr1mEx2x-s

There were no evidence for it. It's only imagination.

It's a very childish understanding of the universe.
The video talks about our 3D space, as if that would be the Universe.
For 3D space to be curved fourth dimension is needed which allows 3D space curvature.The fourth dimension is part of the universe which is infinite.
If the 4D space is also closed then that is the fifth dimension wich is infinite.
And so on to infinity.

But there's the time.Time is also part of the universe.

So what do you think? There is a border which closes a finite universe?
 
That would be my assement also.

Still the misunderstanding is not limited to the lay public, there are a fair number of recognized scientists that share the idea that the BB began as a point source and expanded outward from there.

That is literally correct; the necessary caveat is that "the point source (or more accurately singularity) WAS the entire universe at that time."
 
That is literally correct; the necessary caveat is that "the point source (or more accurately singularity) WAS the entire universe at that time."

I take it, you also find the Science Channel presentations of our universe to be a bit childish to a point where it almost hurts to watch it?:D
 
For all those who are interested, this series came out on Discovery Channel, but also you can find it on youtube-the name of the documentary is "Through the wormhole" in this episode "Is there an edge to the universe" (43 minutes):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhr1mEx2x-s

Heh. I'm not sure that Morgan Freeman could have piled on the dramatization any thicker. The format would make an excellent template for a show about UFO's, or ghosts.

In any case there were some interesting theories presented and, well, there's always the chance that one of them could turn out to be correct. But I find it rather unforgivable that we didn't hear from any of the numerous cosmologists who take the idea of an infinite universe seriously, even in light of (and in some cases especially in light of) recent discoveries.
 
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