Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
You don't have a clue, you don't have a single clue.
The two state solution fate
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You don't have a clue, you don't have a single clue.
As you don't have a clue how to make a proper argument: you failed to counter any point of mine and instead present another ad hominem, I win again
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
As you don't have a clue how to make a proper argument: you failed to counter any point of mine and instead present another ad hominem, I win again
You have failed to recognize the deconstruction of what you call a point.
Your solution? just how long do you think it would be effective?
Hamas keeps smuggling in bigger and bigger rockets, with longer and longer range, bigger and more effective warheads.
At some point you will still have to go in a destroy Hanas's capability, and the bigger the weapons, the bigger the casualties for both sides.
They ignored and humored Hitler, until they couldn't ignore Him any longer and He would no longer be Humored.
That cost the world 50,000,000 dead.
Now Hamas wouldn't be able to reach those lofty numbers, but they could reach the 7,000,000 number.
Hamas missile would threaten most Israelis
Developing electronic-guidance, hints at Iran help, warns truce will end
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: June 01, 2006
1:00 am Eastern
By Aaron Klein
© 2009 WorldNetDaily.com
JERUSALEM – Hamas is developing a new, electronically guided missile that will place most major Israeli population centers within firing range, Abu Abdullah, a leader of Hamas' so-called military wing, told WorldNetDaily.
Over 50,000,000 dead because they Ignored and Humored Hitler.
Yes, Ignor Hamas, and the toll wouldn't be 50,000,000, but it could be 7,000,000, the population of Israel and about the same number of Jews lost in the Holocaust of WWII.
Thatis what comes of ignoring people who want to kill you.
As you don't have a clue how to make a proper argument: you failed to counter any point of mine and instead present another ad hominem, I win again
Its not that he doesn't have a clue, he is deliberate in his misrepresentation.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Its not that he doesn't have a clue, he is deliberate in his misrepresentation.
Yes, from SAM the Queen of misrepresentation.
Buffalo Roam,
The Palestinians are not Hiltar or the Nazis, they neither have the power or the infrastructure and likely never will even if left to their own devices, which would either result in them remaining economically pathetic or eventually their standards of living and moral would increase to the point where they would no longer want to fight israel (egypt, jordon, syria are examples, as they will not go to war with israel now and risk their fragile but existing economies). As long as israel's proactive anti-terrorisms continues to oppress the Palestinians, the palestinians will continue to breed terrorist. Israeli attacks have yet to stop terrorism or even show signs of suppressing it for any reasonable time period. But if I got your argument straight what your saying is Israel must keep the Palestinians weak and crippled and constantly under oppression so as they would be unable to muster larger scale terrorist attacks? So just live with the small scale attacks via constant unrelenting oppression? I'm guessing your figured out that whole "bring democracy and freedom" BS doesn't work? Instead its the "keep pounding their heads in so all they can do is hit you with sticks" strategy, its does seem like an effective strategy as it makes for the existing stalemate, but its morally repulsive: I would think genocide would better morally than continuously torturing a people forever, the sweet release of death would be far more merciful!
Even guided missiles are no match against an anti-missile system, in fact a simple radio guided missile can be jammed even taken over with ease.
The Palestinians are not Hiltar or the Nazis, they neither have the power or the infrastructure and likely never will even if left to their own devices, which would either result in them remaining economically pathetic or eventually their standards of living and moral would increase to the point where they would no longer want to fight israel (egypt, jordon, syria are examples, as they will not go to war with israel now and risk their fragile but existing economies). As long as israel's proactive anti-terrorisms continues to oppress the Palestinians, the palestinians will continue to breed terrorist. Israeli attacks have yet to stop terrorism or even show signs of suppressing it for any reasonable time period. But if I got your argument straight what your saying is Israel must keep the Palestinians weak and crippled and constantly under oppression so as they would be unable to muster larger scale terrorist attacks? So just live with the small scale attacks via constant unrelenting oppression? I'm guessing your figured out that whole "bring democracy and freedom" BS doesn't work? Instead its the "keep pounding their heads in so all they can do is hit you with sticks" strategy, its does seem like an effective strategy as it makes for the existing stalemate, but its morally repulsive: I would think genocide would better morally than continuously torturing a people forever, the sweet release of death would be far more merciful!
Even guided missiles are no match against an anti-missile system, in fact a simple radio guided missile can be jammed even taken over with ease.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Again you really don't know what the hell your talking about.
It worked for the native Americans.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Well for Hamas it isn't for the lack of trying that they can't kill more.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Well lets look at the record and here is a good start.
http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2008/11/35679_space.html
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Not really it is a long standing problem from the Arabs of Palestine.
Lets start with the murder of 1,256 Jews in Palestine by Palestinian Arabs in the five months between the adoption of the UN partition plan in November 1947 and Israel 's declaration of independence in May 1948
Palestine Arab Riots 1920-21
Haj Amin al-Husseini emerged as one of the leaders of the 1920 Arab riots in Palestine and incited the masses to murder Jews and loot their homes. ...
www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_riots_1920-21.... - 14k -
http://www.middleeastpiece.com/palestinianviolence.html
"From late 1919, Arab attacks on Jewish settlements became more frequent and relentless, particularly in the Jordan Valley and the Galilee."2
"As early as 1920, Palestine Arab opposition to Zionism and desire for self-government led to a threat to public security. ... three days of rioting in Jerusalem, in which Arab mobs fell upon Jews with sticks, stones and knives. The Arab Police either adopted a passive attitude or joined in the riots. British troops were called out, the police were disarmed and order was finally reestablished. As a result of these disturbances, five Jews and four Arabs were killed and 211 Jews and 21 Arabs were wounded."3
"1 March 1920 In an attack by large numbers of Arabs from the village of Halsa, eight Jews were killed ..."4
In April 1920 Arabs rioted against Jews during the Nebi Musa festival.
On May 1st, 1921 “Arabs of Jaffa murderously attacked Jewish inhabitants of the town and Arab raids were made on five Jewish rural settlements; the disorders were suppressed by the police and military forces. Forty-seven Jews were killed and 146 wounded, mostly by Arabs … The hostility shown towards the Jews during the riots was shared by Arabs of all classes; Moslem and Christian Arabs …”5
"On May Day, 1921, Arab mobs attacked Jewish residents of Jaffa and stormed the Zionist Immigration Center, killing 13 persons. Again the military forces had to be summoned to replace the unreliable Arab police. The disorders, however, spread. On the 3rd May Hebrew colonies at Kafr Saba and Ain Hal were looted. On the 5th May the village of Petah Tiqvah was attacked by several thousand armed Arabs in semi-military formation, and was saved from destruction only by the arrival of several squadrons of cavalry. On the 6th May Arabs besieged Haderah and attempted an attack on Rehovoth. In these disorders 47 Jews were killed and 146 wounded, mostly by Arabs, and 48 Arabs were killed and 73 wounded, mostly by police and military action."6
In 1929 general anti-Jewish riots spread throughout Palestine. From August 23rd to the 29th, “murderous attacks were made on the Jews in various parts of the country. The most violent attacks were those against the old established Jewish communities at Hebron and Safed; there were also attacks in Jerusalem and Jaffa and against several Jewish rural settlements. There was little retaliation by Jews, of whom 133 were killed and 339 wounded.”7
Britain had to rush troops up from Egypt to restore order. The survivors of the Hebron massacre fled the city having their property and land confiscated by Arabs. Another account reads, "... Arabs armed with knives and clubs invaded the new city of Jerusalem and began a massacre of the Jews. On the following day more than 60 Jews were killed at Hebron, and in the succeeding days a number of Jewish colonies were attacked. The police had to open fire to prevent outrages in Nablus and Jaffa, and Arabs attacked the Jewish quarter in Safed, killing or wounding 45 persons. In all, 133 Jews were killed and 339 wounded, and six Jewish colonies were destroyed. There were 116 reported Arab deaths, many of them as a result of police and military activities."8
"The period between 1929 and 1936 was marked by periodic violence. In August 1930, there was a minor Arab outbreak at Nablus. The years 1930 and 1931 saw a series of terrorist murders of Jews. Agrarian crime was endemic and the Arabs attempted to take into their own hands the prevention of illegal Jewish immigration. In October 1931, Arab demonstrations and riots directed against the Government, as well as against the Jews, took place in Jerusalem, Jaffa, Haifa and Babes. In the course of these and related incidents, 24 civilians were killed and 204 wounded."9
“By July [1938] the Arab gangs had become thoroughly organized and their activities co-ordinated. Rebel courts were set up by which many loyal Arabs and a number of Jews who had been abducted were tried and executed in the following months … the Old City of Jerusalem became a rallying point of bandits from which acts of violence, murder, and intimidation were organized and perpetrated freely and with impunity.”10
For almost three years (1936-39) there was a general Arab uprising protesting Jewish immigration which resulted in many Jews being murdered and beaten including yet another massacre of 20 Jews in Tiberius.
Yes SAM the Arabs of Palestine were so easy to get along with.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
Yes the Arabs in Palestine had such great love for the Jews:
Far from the Jews ‘ethnically cleansing' Palestine , if anything the reality was the opposite way round. Here are verbatim extracts from a summary of Frantzman's findings, published in the Jerusalem Post on 17 August 2007 :-
• Sixty two Jews in Palestine were murdered by Arabs in the first week after the UN partition plan was passed
• By May 1948 1,256 Jews had been killed, most of them civilians. These deaths were caused by Arab militias, gangs, terrorists, and army units which attacked every place of Jewish habitation in Palestine
• The attacks succeeded in placing Jerusalem under siege, and eventually cutting off its water supply
• All Jewish villages in the Negev were attacked, and Jews had to go around the country in convoys. In every major city where Jews and Arabs lived in mixed neighbourhoods the Jewish areas came under attack. This was true in Haifa 's Hadar Hacarmel as well as Jerusalem 's Old City
• Thirty-nine Jews were killed by Arab rioters at Haifa 's oil refinery on December 30 1947
• On 16 January 1948 35 Jews were killed trying to reach Gush Etzion
• On 22 February 1948 44 Jews were killed in a bombing on Jerusalem 's main street, Ben Yehuda
• And on 29 February 1948 23 Jews were killed all across Palestine , eight of them at the Hayotzek iron foundry
• 35 Jews were murdered during the Mount Scopus massacre of doctors and nurses on 13 April 1948
• And 127 Jews were massacred at Kfar Etzion on 15 May 1948 , after 30 others died defending the Etzion bloc
• Many small kibbutzim were subjected to attacks in December 1947 including Gvulot, Ben Shemen, Holon , Safed, Bat Yam and Kfar Yavetz
• In January and February 1948 it was the turn of the following kibbutzim: Rishon Lezion, Yehiam, Mishmar Hayarden, Tirat Tzvi, Sde Eliahu, Ein Hanatziv, Magdiel, Mitzpe Hagalil and Ma'anit
• In March and April these attacks culminated with an assault on Hartuv by 400 Arabs based in the village of Ishwa and an attack on Kfar Darom by members of the Muslim brotherhood
• Arab attackers bombed the Palestine Post in February 1948
• In March the Jewish agency, the Solel Boneh construction company building in Haifa , and an Egged bus, were each bombed
Frantzman then goes on to point out as follows (again, his points verbatim):-
• Some of today's scholars prefer to present every massacre of Jews as a “response” to some Jewish deed, and to portray as a ‘myth' the very idea that Israel struggled desperately for its existence in 1948
• But it was no myth. The fact is that 1256 Jews were killed in 5 months. Even before the first Arab villages were captured by the Jews in April 1948, 924 Jews had already been killed in the previous four months
• Ilan Pappe and others who follow Pappe's approach should ask themselves what could have happened if the Arabs had not reacted to the partition plan by a murderous assault on the Jews of Palestine [ie they could instead have agreed to the formation of a Palestinian Arab state] . They never raise that question
• The so-called Plan D was an intelligence assessment prepared by the Jewish leadership, but it was not a blueprint for ‘ethnic cleansing'.
• When a Jewish area was overrun – and some were – the homes were destroyed and any survivors were killed, as at Kfar Etzion (only three of the defenders survived the Kfar Etzion massacre)
• The potential for the ethnic cleansing by the Arabs of the Jews of Palestine was never realised only because of the discipline, determination and sheer luck of the Jews
• Scholarship – including that of new historians such as Pappe – on the 1948 war will remain incomplete until methodical studies are carried out on the widespread and often well-planned Arab assaults on the Jews in 1947-1948
Far from the Jews ‘ethnically cleansing' Palestine , if anything the reality was the opposite way round. Here are verbatim extracts from a summary of Frantzman's findings, published in the Jerusalem Post on 17 August 2007 :-
• Sixty two Jews in Palestine were murdered by Arabs in the first week after the UN partition plan was passed
• By May 1948 1,256 Jews had been killed, most of them civilians. These deaths were caused by Arab militias, gangs, terrorists, and army units which attacked every place of Jewish habitation in Palestine
• The attacks succeeded in placing Jerusalem under siege, and eventually cutting off its water supply
• All Jewish villages in the Negev were attacked, and Jews had to go around the country in convoys. In every major city where Jews and Arabs lived in mixed neighbourhoods the Jewish areas came under attack. This was true in Haifa 's Hadar Hacarmel as well as Jerusalem 's Old City
• Thirty-nine Jews were killed by Arab rioters at Haifa 's oil refinery on December 30 1947
• On 16 January 1948 35 Jews were killed trying to reach Gush Etzion
• On 22 February 1948 44 Jews were killed in a bombing on Jerusalem 's main street, Ben Yehuda
• And on 29 February 1948 23 Jews were killed all across Palestine , eight of them at the Hayotzek iron foundry
• 35 Jews were murdered during the Mount Scopus massacre of doctors and nurses on 13 April 1948
• And 127 Jews were massacred at Kfar Etzion on 15 May 1948 , after 30 others died defending the Etzion bloc
• Many small kibbutzim were subjected to attacks in December 1947 including Gvulot, Ben Shemen, Holon , Safed, Bat Yam and Kfar Yavetz
• In January and February 1948 it was the turn of the following kibbutzim: Rishon Lezion, Yehiam, Mishmar Hayarden, Tirat Tzvi, Sde Eliahu, Ein Hanatziv, Magdiel, Mitzpe Hagalil and Ma'anit
• In March and April these attacks culminated with an assault on Hartuv by 400 Arabs based in the village of Ishwa and an attack on Kfar Darom by members of the Muslim brotherhood
• Arab attackers bombed the Palestine Post in February 1948
• In March the Jewish agency, the Solel Boneh construction company building in Haifa , and an Egged bus, were each bombed
Frantzman then goes on to point out as follows (again, his points verbatim):-
• Some of today's scholars prefer to present every massacre of Jews as a “response” to some Jewish deed, and to portray as a ‘myth' the very idea that Israel struggled desperately for its existence in 1948
• But it was no myth. The fact is that 1256 Jews were killed in 5 months. Even before the first Arab villages were captured by the Jews in April 1948, 924 Jews had already been killed in the previous four months
• Ilan Pappe and others who follow Pappe's approach should ask themselves what could have happened if the Arabs had not reacted to the partition plan by a murderous assault on the Jews of Palestine [ie they could instead have agreed to the formation of a Palestinian Arab state] . They never raise that question
• The so-called Plan D was an intelligence assessment prepared by the Jewish leadership, but it was not a blueprint for ‘ethnic cleansing'.
• When a Jewish area was overrun – and some were – the homes were destroyed and any survivors were killed, as at Kfar Etzion (only three of the defenders survived the Kfar Etzion massacre)
• The potential for the ethnic cleansing by the Arabs of the Jews of Palestine was never realised only because of the discipline, determination and sheer luck of the Jews
• Scholarship – including that of new historians such as Pappe – on the 1948 war will remain incomplete until methodical studies are carried out on the widespread and often well-planned Arab assaults on the Jews in 1947-1948
Yeah, all after the Balfour declaration [1917]. Note that the immigrant Jews were forming armed militias from 1907. It was obviously not well received by the Palestinians that they were going to be turned into two states, how odd. Other people would have jumped at the notion that thousands of immigrants were not only moving in, forming clandestine armed groups with the notion of taking over the land, but were actually taking 53% of the land gratis for their religious ethnicity. Everyone would willingly move out.
The Palestinians haven't learned how really enlightened people behave. Can't fight the Nazis? No problem, kill some Palestinians and steal their land. Can't practice your religion? No problem, get on the Mayflower and dispossess some native Americans. Can't find Osama? No problem. Invade Iraq and bomb the beJesus out of them.
Moral of the story: Fight those who are weaker than you, even if they did nothing to you. That way you'll always be a winner.
The Palestinians haven't learned how really enlightened people behave. Can't fight the Nazis? No problem, kill some Palestinians and steal their land. Can't practice your religion? No problem, get on the Mayflower and dispossess some native Americans. Can't find Osama? No problem. Invade Iraq and bomb the beJesus out of them.
Moral of the story: Fight those who are weaker than you, even if they did nothing to you. That way you'll always be a winner.
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Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
SAM, the Jews never even got close to taking 53% of the land again just look at the Palestinian Mandate:
And this is what the Jews recieved in U.N. 181:
Just compairing visually it becomes apparent that the Jews didn't recieve any where near 53% of the Mandate of Palestine, on which to establish Israel.
The Jews actually only recieved 18% of the the Lands of the Palestinian Mandate, the Arabs recieved the other 82%, all of the Transjordan
1948 Arab–Israeli War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Proposed separation of Palestine. Main article: 1947 UN Partition Plan ...... Israel was created only on 18% of the total area of Palestine and Jordan. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War - 251k - Similar pages
They got 53% of the land by the UN mandate. Along with Jordan, none of it was anyone else's to distribute to recently arrived immigrants from Europe and Russia. Its against basic human rights to take part of what you control as guardian for someone else and give it away without asking them. Its also against the law in every civilised nation. No trustee can give away what they have control over for people without legal status. If you feel sorry and charitable, you give from your own pocket, you don't give away other people's property.
The native american have been treated very differently from the Palestinians, though mind you still barbarically. Unlike the palestinians the native americans had the option to integrate and "become civilized" with a variety of different tactics tried and varying success to make them do so, mind you still consider wrong by todays standards, even so native americans can live amongs other US citizens, take jobs, education, etc, unlike Palestinians of whom very few are allowed integration into Israel, and Israel never attempted to convert Palestinians to Jewdism (as american tried to convert natives to Christianity), force them to speak Hebrew (Banish local dialects and force english on the natives) and took there kids away to boarding schools.
Are you talking about the programs of taking the children of natives and forcing them to become "civilised"? The forced population transfers? The broken treaties? Is that what integration is?
Anyway, all of the above only took place after sufficient numbers of the savages were subdued. There was no way to get rid of the remaining while pretending to be civilised.
Actually it was more like assimilation polices became primary after there was not enough land to keep pushing the natives into. For Israel there was never anywhere nears as much land to move Palestinians too, and since the arab states won't take them in specifically to enhance Palestinian suffering to cause issue with israel, and to prevent growth of Palestinians populations in their own country, the Palestinians have been stuck since ~1950, with the israelis trying to take more land but without there being any place to dump the Palestinians being all that has happened since than. In short if israel was going to assimilate them it would have happened decades ago. Likewise Israeli polices against the palestinans have not been genocidal, only oppressive, if Israel had instituted a genocidal campaign against the Palestinians their populations would have been negligible of non-existent today, instead of having been growing at rodent like rates.
By the way hows the addiction recovery going.
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