I would appreciate it, if we actually discuss the topic, rather than each other. Vienna, not all muslims are fanatics, don't generalize like that. Although, I would like to know a muslims's take on my analysis above, and how it affects their ideals.
The Truth About Islam
- Thread starter crazymikey
- Start date
Vienna said:
I agree, your culture is way more superior, perhaps if you wish to consider gymnastic skills. When my great great granddaddy Ramses, and the other Pharoahs were building state of the art agriculture systems, buildings, pyramids, ships, ect.....Yours were swinging superiorly from a tree branch.
Why don't you copy cat more numbers that my ancestors have invented for you. Do a better job at it, will you? If my anscestors knew that the west was going to use these numbers to manipulate, steal, conquer, and ruin the environment, build bombs, they would have left you up on the tree where you belonged.
Vienna said:
Where do you get such concept from? Islam perhaps, the religion that gives you the right to retaliate until persection cease......I demand that you stop behaving Islamic and put your head between your legs and kiss your white ass goodbye....because that's the extent of the teachings of christianity.
That is actually not correct. The decimal system, and the concept of zero, was long ago invented in India, and later this travelled to Arabia, from which it was discovered by the Europeans.
Flores said:
Yes Agaber is indeed an arabic word, but it is not an Arabic invention. Even that system originates from India, in fact a lot of mathamathical concept do, click here for more information http://www.ilovemaths.com/ind_mathe.htm
Vienna said:
I'm waiting for you to wear the cone head suit and burn some cross first. I want you all relaxed in your natural environment, It's hard to talk to constipated British people that think that think that the sun rise and set over their puney little irrelevant island
crazymikey said:
This claim is false, the zero was invented by the myans, the chinease, the indians, and the arabs all at the same time arrived at the arabic system.... Why would the numbers be called arabic numbers if they originated in India or China, They should have been called the hindu numbers, but they're not...and how come the Quran, which is a very old manuscript, utilizes the arabic numbers.
How do you think Vienna's computer would be behaving if we started using the Roman numerals...IXXXXV.
Regardless of exactly where the numbers and cultures originated, I think the east, from Egypt to India, and China lies the credit....certainly not with the western world. And if I'm willing to give any part of the western world any cultural credits, then I think the myans are most deserving.
Flores said:
From what I know of, the zero and the decimal system, from 1 to 9, and 0, was invented in India, and from there it spread to China and Arabia.The earliest account of zero, is in Indian documents, that used a dot to represent 0. They were initially called Hindu-arabic numerals, but later the arabic numerals was adopted by the Europeans.
Further information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals
There is also a treatise written by the Arab mathmatician, Al-Uqlidisi, on the Hindu-place-value-system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu'l-Hasan_al-Uqlidisi
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Please read the following book on the arabs inventing algebra
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0823989860/inktomi-bkasin-20/ref=nosim/002-5908606-8988049
To read about the invention of trignometry and Astronomy:
http://www.clevelandmemory.com/arabs/pg051.html
The Arabs invented and developed Algebra and made revolutionary strides in trigonometry. Al-Khwarizmi, credited with the invention of Algebra, was inspired by the need to find a more accurate and comprehensive method to assure the precise divisions of land so that the Koran could be speci*fically obeyed in the laws of inheritance. The Astrolabe, combining the use of mathematics, geography and astronomy was also devised with religion in view, and was used to chart exactly the time of sunrise and sunset, to determine the time for fasting during the month of Ramadan. The writings of Leonardo da Vinci, Leonardo Fibonacci of Pisa and Master Jacob of Florence show the Arab influence on mathematical studies in European universities.26
The reformation of the calendar, with a margin of error of only one day in five thousand years was also a contribution of the Arab intellect. Indeed, in our every day commerce, whether it is in yard goods, lumber, or ingots of gold and silver, we use the weights and measures by which the Arabs of the past conducted the business of their every day life.
Astronomy
Beside the improvement of the ancient Astrolabe, the Arab astronomers of the Middle Ages compiled astronomical charts and tables, in observatories such as those at Palmyra and Maragha. Gradually, they were able to deter*mine the length of a degree, to establish longitude and latitude, and to investigate the relative speeds of sound and light. Al-Biruni, considered one of the greatest scientists of all time discussed the possibility of the earth's rotation on its own axis, a theory proven by Galileo six hundred years later. Arab astronomers such as Al Fezari, Al-Farghani, and Al-Zarqali added to the works of Ptolemy and the classic pioneers, in the development of the magnetic compass and the charting of the Zodiac.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0823989860/inktomi-bkasin-20/ref=nosim/002-5908606-8988049
To read about the invention of trignometry and Astronomy:
http://www.clevelandmemory.com/arabs/pg051.html
The Arabs invented and developed Algebra and made revolutionary strides in trigonometry. Al-Khwarizmi, credited with the invention of Algebra, was inspired by the need to find a more accurate and comprehensive method to assure the precise divisions of land so that the Koran could be speci*fically obeyed in the laws of inheritance. The Astrolabe, combining the use of mathematics, geography and astronomy was also devised with religion in view, and was used to chart exactly the time of sunrise and sunset, to determine the time for fasting during the month of Ramadan. The writings of Leonardo da Vinci, Leonardo Fibonacci of Pisa and Master Jacob of Florence show the Arab influence on mathematical studies in European universities.26
The reformation of the calendar, with a margin of error of only one day in five thousand years was also a contribution of the Arab intellect. Indeed, in our every day commerce, whether it is in yard goods, lumber, or ingots of gold and silver, we use the weights and measures by which the Arabs of the past conducted the business of their every day life.
Astronomy
Beside the improvement of the ancient Astrolabe, the Arab astronomers of the Middle Ages compiled astronomical charts and tables, in observatories such as those at Palmyra and Maragha. Gradually, they were able to deter*mine the length of a degree, to establish longitude and latitude, and to investigate the relative speeds of sound and light. Al-Biruni, considered one of the greatest scientists of all time discussed the possibility of the earth's rotation on its own axis, a theory proven by Galileo six hundred years later. Arab astronomers such as Al Fezari, Al-Farghani, and Al-Zarqali added to the works of Ptolemy and the classic pioneers, in the development of the magnetic compass and the charting of the Zodiac.
I am not disputing the contributions of Arabs. I am just telling you, they did not invent the place-value-system, and nor did they invent Algebra, or trigonometry for that matter, and many of the things you claim. A lot of Arabic mathmatical concepts, have originated from India, according to history, although Im sure arabs must have extended upon them, like creating fractions.
Here is some more information:
Mathematicians in India invented the base ten system in ancient times. But research did not stop there. The practice of representing large numbers also evolved in ancient India. The base ten system of calculation that uses nine numerals and the zero stood as an efficient way to represent numbers ranging from a very small decimal to an inconceivably large number. The biggest number known to Greeks was the myriad (10,000) whereas the Chinese, until recent times, had 10,000 as the largest unit of enumeration and the ancient Arabs knew only until 1,000. The notion of representing large numbers as powers of 10, one that was invented in India, turned out to be extremely handy. The Yajur Veda Samhitaa, one of the Vedic texts written at least 1,000 years before Euclid lists names for each of the units of ten upto the twelfth power [See 1]. Later other Indian texts (from Buddhist and Jaina authors) extended this list as high as the 53rd power, far exceeding their Greek contmporaries, mainly because of the latter's handicap of not being able to accept the fundamental Mathematical notion of abstract numerals. The place value system is built into the Sanskrit language and so whereas in English we only use thousand, million, billion etc, in Sanskrit there are specific nomenclature for the powers of 10, most used in modern times are dasa (10), sata (100), sahasra (1,000=1K), ayuta (10K), laksha (100K), niyuta (106=1M), koti (10M), vyarbuda (100M), paraardha (1012) etc. Results of such a practice were two-folds. Firstly, the removal of special imporatance of numbers. Instead of naming numbers in grops of three, four or eight orders of units one could use the necessary name for the power of 10. Secondly, the notion of the term "of the order of". To express the order of a particular number, one simply needs to use the nearest two powers of 10 to express its enormity.
Aryabhata (Āryabhaṭa) is the first of the great astronomers of the classical age of India. He was born in 476 AD in Ashmaka but later lived in Kusumapura, which his commentator Bhāskara I (629 AD) identifies with Pāṭaliputra (modern Patna).
His book, the Āryabhatīya, presented astronomical and mathematical theories in which the Earth was taken to be spinning on its axis and the periods of the planets were given with respect to the sun. In this book, the day was reckoned from one sunrise to the next, whereas in his Āryabhata-siddhānta he took the day from one midnight to another. There was also difference in some astronomical parameters.
Āryabhata wrote that 1,582,237,500 rotations of the Earth equal 57,753,336 lunar orbits. This is an extremely accurate ratio of a fundamental astronomical ratio (1,582,237,500/57,753,336 = 27.3964693572), and is perhaps the oldest astronomical constant calculated to such accuracy.
The earliest systematic study of trigonometric functions and tabulation of their values was performed by Hipparchus of Nicaea (180-125 B.C.), who tabulated the lengths of circle arcs (angle A times radius r) with the lengths of the subtending chords (2r sin(A/2)). Later, Ptolemy (2nd century A.D.) expanded upon this work in his Almagest, deriving addition/subtraction formulas for the equivalent of sin(A+B) and cos(A+B). Ptolemy also derived the equivalent of the half-angle formula sin(A/2)2 = (1-cos(A))/2, allowing him to create tables with any desired accuracy. Neither the tables of Hipparchus nor of Ptolemy have survived to the present day.
The next significant development of trigonometry was in India, in the works known as the Siddhantas (4th-5th century A.D.), which first defined the sine as the modern relationship between half an angle and half a chord; the modern word "sine" comes from a mistranslation of the Hindu jiva. The Siddhantas also contains the earliest surviving tables of sine values (along with 1-cos values), in 3.75-degree intervals from 0 to 90 degrees.
The Hindu works were later translated and expanded by the Arabs, who by the 10th century (in the work of Abu'l-Wefa) were using all six trigonometric functions, and had sine tables in 0.25-degree increments, to 8 decimal places of accuracy, as well as tables of tangent values
Here is some more information:
Mathematicians in India invented the base ten system in ancient times. But research did not stop there. The practice of representing large numbers also evolved in ancient India. The base ten system of calculation that uses nine numerals and the zero stood as an efficient way to represent numbers ranging from a very small decimal to an inconceivably large number. The biggest number known to Greeks was the myriad (10,000) whereas the Chinese, until recent times, had 10,000 as the largest unit of enumeration and the ancient Arabs knew only until 1,000. The notion of representing large numbers as powers of 10, one that was invented in India, turned out to be extremely handy. The Yajur Veda Samhitaa, one of the Vedic texts written at least 1,000 years before Euclid lists names for each of the units of ten upto the twelfth power [See 1]. Later other Indian texts (from Buddhist and Jaina authors) extended this list as high as the 53rd power, far exceeding their Greek contmporaries, mainly because of the latter's handicap of not being able to accept the fundamental Mathematical notion of abstract numerals. The place value system is built into the Sanskrit language and so whereas in English we only use thousand, million, billion etc, in Sanskrit there are specific nomenclature for the powers of 10, most used in modern times are dasa (10), sata (100), sahasra (1,000=1K), ayuta (10K), laksha (100K), niyuta (106=1M), koti (10M), vyarbuda (100M), paraardha (1012) etc. Results of such a practice were two-folds. Firstly, the removal of special imporatance of numbers. Instead of naming numbers in grops of three, four or eight orders of units one could use the necessary name for the power of 10. Secondly, the notion of the term "of the order of". To express the order of a particular number, one simply needs to use the nearest two powers of 10 to express its enormity.
Aryabhata (Āryabhaṭa) is the first of the great astronomers of the classical age of India. He was born in 476 AD in Ashmaka but later lived in Kusumapura, which his commentator Bhāskara I (629 AD) identifies with Pāṭaliputra (modern Patna).
His book, the Āryabhatīya, presented astronomical and mathematical theories in which the Earth was taken to be spinning on its axis and the periods of the planets were given with respect to the sun. In this book, the day was reckoned from one sunrise to the next, whereas in his Āryabhata-siddhānta he took the day from one midnight to another. There was also difference in some astronomical parameters.
Āryabhata wrote that 1,582,237,500 rotations of the Earth equal 57,753,336 lunar orbits. This is an extremely accurate ratio of a fundamental astronomical ratio (1,582,237,500/57,753,336 = 27.3964693572), and is perhaps the oldest astronomical constant calculated to such accuracy.
The earliest systematic study of trigonometric functions and tabulation of their values was performed by Hipparchus of Nicaea (180-125 B.C.), who tabulated the lengths of circle arcs (angle A times radius r) with the lengths of the subtending chords (2r sin(A/2)). Later, Ptolemy (2nd century A.D.) expanded upon this work in his Almagest, deriving addition/subtraction formulas for the equivalent of sin(A+B) and cos(A+B). Ptolemy also derived the equivalent of the half-angle formula sin(A/2)2 = (1-cos(A))/2, allowing him to create tables with any desired accuracy. Neither the tables of Hipparchus nor of Ptolemy have survived to the present day.
The next significant development of trigonometry was in India, in the works known as the Siddhantas (4th-5th century A.D.), which first defined the sine as the modern relationship between half an angle and half a chord; the modern word "sine" comes from a mistranslation of the Hindu jiva. The Siddhantas also contains the earliest surviving tables of sine values (along with 1-cos values), in 3.75-degree intervals from 0 to 90 degrees.
The Hindu works were later translated and expanded by the Arabs, who by the 10th century (in the work of Abu'l-Wefa) were using all six trigonometric functions, and had sine tables in 0.25-degree increments, to 8 decimal places of accuracy, as well as tables of tangent values
crazymikey said:
It honors me to attribute credit to India and thank you for educating me on the subject. I must confess, I knew little about it.
On another note, I can sense in your writings a hate for Islam....perhaps it's warranted by the State of Pakistan maddness, which by the way, I don't agree with at all. I think you are a victim of the Hindu-Muslim in India. A problem that by the way is a personal one and not a religious one. A probelm of selfishness and lack of tolerance... I'm a muslim, and I agree totally with the logic of this writer Suman Palit:
http://www.madhoo.com/archives/000574.php
Aziz is absolutely right to cry out against organized mayhem of Muslims in India. But those who we condemn carry within their hearts a blackness born of religous certainty, and reinforced by centuries of abuse, whether real or imagined. They are convinced that life is a series of zero-sum games, and that their side has lost one too many. It's payback time, and they are not leaving. What does the world have to offer them but sympathy? Pity? A call to keep taking the moral high ground in the midst of bloodshed? A slice of the pie when ten years down the road, Prez. Condi Rice redraws the map of Pakistan? I don't think so. They want their respect and they want it now. Not the genteel, sophisticated respect of their ex-colonial masters, now farting nervously in Brussels. They want the raw, real and fearful respect of their neighbors. They want to carve out a land recreated in a Vedic afterimage from their fevered dreams. They want a past that never was, to become the future of their children. And they are not going away anytime soon. As long as Islamic fundamentalism exists, so too will the Hinduvta reactionaries. Thrust, parry, counter-parry. A bloody point for every bloody counterpoint.
Woah there, you have gone of at a tangent. I am not Hindu. I am an atheist. Nor do I hate Islam, and I'm not sure how you make such a judgement. If you are referring to my analysis, then It is not me hating Islam, it is the hate that translates from Islam. I am a secularist, and anti-racism, I do not hate Islam, or muslims at all.
Crazymilk,
I think at some point I will address the points your brought from the Quran. The Hadith on the other hand is not a document that I use nor believe in. Hadith is are heresays that were carried by people who said that overhead the prophet say something. Our Quran instructs that our prophet is only a messanger and not a teacher, and it also points out to many instance where the prophet just like any human have made mistakes. Me as a muslim don't believe in the Hadith and don't care to discuss it, because I think it's irrelevant to my faith.
I think at some point I will address the points your brought from the Quran. The Hadith on the other hand is not a document that I use nor believe in. Hadith is are heresays that were carried by people who said that overhead the prophet say something. Our Quran instructs that our prophet is only a messanger and not a teacher, and it also points out to many instance where the prophet just like any human have made mistakes. Me as a muslim don't believe in the Hadith and don't care to discuss it, because I think it's irrelevant to my faith.
crazymikey said:
Atheism is not a belief. It's merely a lack of proof to warrant a believe in god. So what's really is your believe?
I for example believe in equality and freedom, that all humans, animals, and our environment were created by the same signature print of a higer power. Since we are all created by one and came from one root, I believe in equality. I wouldn't be able to justify equality if it wasn't for my believe in a single creator.
Yes, atheism is not a belief. You accused me of being Hindu, and I was merely telling you, that I do not subscribe to any religious doctorine. Atheism, basically means, no belief in God. I do not beleive in God, because theres no reason to believe he exists.
You said "you cannot justify equality" without a single creator? Well I can justify equality by saying we are all manifestations of the universe. The creator's role is nullified.
You said "you cannot justify equality" without a single creator? Well I can justify equality by saying we are all manifestations of the universe. The creator's role is nullified.