That is rather a broad brush there Captain. Maybe Assad is being undermined by his brother's actions.
The Syrian "Revolution": A Farce from Beginning to End
- Thread starter ExposingAmericanLies
- Start date
Obama will be meeting Putin privately before the G20 conference.
Hopefully those talks will be productive.
He's got to bomb something now for the flag wavers, or they won't say yay at the next election.
He should pick something that will kill as few people as possible.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/07/politics/obama-putin
Hopefully those talks will be productive.
He's got to bomb something now for the flag wavers, or they won't say yay at the next election.
He should pick something that will kill as few people as possible.
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/08/07/politics/obama-putin
Even on non-humanitarian grounds, the US and all other western democracies have a distinct interest in making sure one way or another that Assad does not win this war militarily. If Iran ultimately achieves its ambition to form a Shiite crescent consisting of Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, governed by the Iranian Ayatollahs and backed strongly by Russia and to a lesser degree by China, armed with nuclear and chemical weapons and a population driven to militancy with propaganda comparable to the works of Goebbels, we'll eventually be on the verge of the biggest global confrontation since WW2. Assad and those who fight for him have only ever cared about a peaceful status quo with the West and their allies because they know they need more time to build up their forces and probe to see what they can get away with incrementally at each stage of the buildup.
I acknowledge the concerns about entering into the Syrian war, the risks of playing into Al Qaeda's hands, the possibility of botched intelligence, the fears of an Arab and international majority once more perceiving America as a colonial invader. What we cannot pretend is that the conflict is or ever was an internal Syrian matter prior to US intervention, anymore than the US would be part of Saudi Arabia's domestic politics in the event of an internal uprising against its rulers. Almost from day one, Iranian officers were advising the Syrian army and participating in combat, and Hezbollah was involved to a small degree in the fighting along Syria's border with Lebanon before entering in force earlier this summer under Iranian orders. Russia from the start has been pumping Assad full of as much equipment as he can feasibly pay for with the money he will presumably steal from the people he kills with that equipment, as well as providing his forces with valuable intel. The majority of Syrian people have already made it rather abundantly clear that they don't want to be ruled by a tyrant who does this to his political opponents (warning: graphic).
Yes, that was before the destruction of those weapons and years of UN inspections and the UN oversight of those weapons per United Nations Security Council Resolution 687...one of them minor details again.
Are you on drugs?
But this time I'm Really Really telling the truth.
Well this is a different boy. Bush II is no longer in office.
CptBork, please excuse me, but I am having a little trouble completely following what you are trying to put across. For instance, in Post #284, you state :
quote - "What we cannot pretend is that the conflict is or ever was an internal Syrian matter prior to US intervention, anymore than the US would be part of Saudi Arabia's domestic politics in the event of an internal uprising against its rulers." - unquote
The first part of the statement SEEMS to indicate that you perceive there was NO internal Syrian matter - PRIOR - to US intervention. I would prefer not to ASSUME any of your perceptions - so could you please clarify that?
The last part of the statement, again, SEEMS to indicate that you perceive there would be NO U.S. involvement in any internal Saudi Arabian matter - which SEEMS to be the OPPOSITE of the first part. Again, I would prefer not to ASSUME any of your perceptions - so could you please clarify that, also?
Also, have you ever heard of "Non Governmental Operations" (NGO's)? And do you believe that the so-called, "Arab Spring" just manifested itself, internally' out of thin air, in multiple countries/nations, without any "outside" intervention or instigation or support?
Any clarification of your viewpoints and possibly even answers to my queries would be appreciated - I prefer not to participate in serious discussions with any thing other than facts and clearly thought out and logically produced critical "points", - assumptions and presumptions have no true place in serious discussions (in my understanding).
Thank you, in advance.
quote - "What we cannot pretend is that the conflict is or ever was an internal Syrian matter prior to US intervention, anymore than the US would be part of Saudi Arabia's domestic politics in the event of an internal uprising against its rulers." - unquote
The first part of the statement SEEMS to indicate that you perceive there was NO internal Syrian matter - PRIOR - to US intervention. I would prefer not to ASSUME any of your perceptions - so could you please clarify that?
The last part of the statement, again, SEEMS to indicate that you perceive there would be NO U.S. involvement in any internal Saudi Arabian matter - which SEEMS to be the OPPOSITE of the first part. Again, I would prefer not to ASSUME any of your perceptions - so could you please clarify that, also?
Also, have you ever heard of "Non Governmental Operations" (NGO's)? And do you believe that the so-called, "Arab Spring" just manifested itself, internally' out of thin air, in multiple countries/nations, without any "outside" intervention or instigation or support?
Any clarification of your viewpoints and possibly even answers to my queries would be appreciated - I prefer not to participate in serious discussions with any thing other than facts and clearly thought out and logically produced critical "points", - assumptions and presumptions have no true place in serious discussions (in my understanding).
Thank you, in advance.
This. This. This.
At this stage, the US needs to send some type of military "response" to the Assad regime, but that is only because Obama put us in a position of now having to respond. Do I personally think the Syrian government was behind the attacks? It would seem that way, but I don't have confirmation as to my hunch. That is troubling. Suppose the attacks were caused by rebels? We attack Syria in response to an unconfirmed, strong hunch? There has been "evidence" found at different rebel outposts, I've read that points to the definite possibility that rebels have the means to launch a chemical attack. If they too have the means, then who for sure was responsible?
I do think Assad is no different than Hitler was during the Nazi regime. He is a dictator and with that comes a diabolical way of governing. That said, I just wish the US had stronger evidence to support striking Syria.
What concerns me is should the US attack, it will not do much damage to the areas where the chemicals and other such weapons are stored, as Assad has repositioned things since we've given such an advance "warning." So, getting involved with Syria may at this point, merely tantamount to poking at a congested bee hive. :/ Is the US prepared for a long conflict? Anyone with a humanitarian bone in his body, doesn't want to see innocent people suffer as has happened during the recent chemical attacks, but the appropriate party needs to be "punished." This is an incredibly hard decision, and one that will change the course of US' dealings with the Middle East...for a very long time.
I'm honestly afraid that another world war is pending, and in the not so distant future. Many people don't care about this Syria crisis, oh but they will if/when that happens.
This particular "Chess Match" was well into the "Game" before "The Arab Spring"
or "Benghazi" or "HillaryGate or "Eric Snowden" and will not end with Syria...
or "Benghazi" or "HillaryGate or "Eric Snowden" and will not end with Syria...
I agree; I saw your comment to this effect a few pages back, and meant to reply. Agree that my wording of "...the US 'finds itself'," was definitely a sloppy representation. The US has chosen its position, as has other countries.
I trust I can throw them far enough (if of course that was allowed, the same could be said about most MP's too though)
The G20 Leaders summit is on the 5th to 6th September.
The arranged meeting between Putin and Obama was cancelled over the Snowden affair.
My suggestion for the White House and Kremlin suggestion boxes
is that they forget that minor problem and talk about preventing WWIII.
Suggestion for Obama token bombing targets.
How about all Assad's palaces?
@Stryder
You wouldn't have thrown this bastard far.
Cyril Smith. Liberal MP and unpunished serial paedophile. (deceased)
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Smith
How did he manage to...............
The arranged meeting between Putin and Obama was cancelled over the Snowden affair.
My suggestion for the White House and Kremlin suggestion boxes
is that they forget that minor problem and talk about preventing WWIII.
Suggestion for Obama token bombing targets.
How about all Assad's palaces?
@Stryder
You wouldn't have thrown this bastard far.
Cyril Smith. Liberal MP and unpunished serial paedophile. (deceased)
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Smith
How did he manage to...............
There is always the women and children too in those places, but I know what you mean. "Target him alone", but it was his brother who did it wasn't it? Has he got full control over his brothers (family and connections) who might be trying to depose him?
I don't believe that Obama is really concerned about Syrian forces gassing women and children. Obama controls a powerful military machine and is just itching to use it on a nice juicy target. Syria just happens to be the target of opportunity for this administration. This should help Obama feel good about his presidency.
The G20 Leaders summit is on the 5th to 6th September.
The arranged meeting between Putin and Obama was cancelled over the Snowden affair.
My suggestion for the White House and Kremlin suggestion boxes
is that they forget that minor problem and talk about preventing WWIII.
Suggestion for Obama token bombing targets.
How about all Assad's palaces?
@Stryder
You wouldn't have thrown this bastard far.
Cyril Smith. Liberal MP and unpunished serial paedophile. (deceased)
see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Smith
How did he manage to...............
Captain Kremmen, your suggestions :
"...forget that minor problem and talk about preventing WWIII."
"...for Obama token bombing targets...How about all Assad's palaces"
Would NOT PART OF PREVENTING WWIII be finding out WHO INDEED WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN SYRIA before BOMBING ANYONE ??!!??
Just my thoughts.
This would create a power vacuum that could be filled by the worst characters you can imagine. In any event, the question of Assad's legitimacy as head of state notwithstanding, targeting world leaders is avoided since otherwise all heads of state become legitimate targets for assassination.
First off we would have to believe that Obama is heartless and psychopathic like Assad. Nothing in his past as a student, community organizer, lawyer, senator and now President backs up your opinion of Obama. Obama does have a mighty military machine at his disposal but he is in no way hawkish when it comes to war and in fact the media's portrayal of him as a reluctant warrior is accurate. He could have mirrored our last President GW in his actions, but chose to have an open debate and a vote on military strikes on Syria.
Assad and the Syrian forces are most likely the bad guys here and trying to make Obama the culprit because he will most likely respond to a lunatic's action is just plain idiocy.
If you believe that, then you need to get a little more current. That POTUS is a former POTUS…a retired POTUS. The party that got us into those wars no longer holds all the power in Washington. There is nothing in Obama’s background that would indicate he is anything like George II. Obama graduated from the nation’s top law school and he could have become a high priced lawyers earning six and seven figure income. But he didn’t, instead he took a job working with and for the poor and earning a rather meager income. Additionally, Obama has always been an anti-war politician. He was against the Iraq war. If he wanted nice juicy targets, he wouldn’t have ended one war and soon will end another. I mean there are plenty of places left to bomb in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, and Libya. And there are much juicer targets out there (e.g. Iran) if Obama wanted juicy targets.
How much more does Obama need to feel good about his presidency? He was the first president in almost a century to get near universal healthcare passed through the congress. Others had tried and failed, most recently President Clinton. Healthcare reform, Obamacare, is a pretty big deal. And then there is the small matter of saving the nation and the world from the brink of an economic apocalypse. I don’t think Obama needs to worry about feeling good about his presidency. One, I don’t think he concerns himself much about such trivialities. He is not a George junior who was born with a golden spoon in his mouth. Unlike his predecessor or Tsar Peter III, he doesn’t play with his toy soldiers.
Syria is a problem for President Obama, nothing more and nothing less. Syria is fraught with opportunities for Obama to screw up. It’s a really bad risk reward situation for Obama. And if Obama was the bloody thirsty war monger you think he is…just salivating to bomb a few Syrians…why is it he just threw the decision over to congress? He could have ordered a strike at any moment. Bombs could be falling in Syria at this moment. But they are not. Obama doesn’t need the blessing of congress to bomb Syria.
No. He would lose face. Best not to examine the truth too closely.
The bombing must go ahead. MUST GO AHEAD. Understand?
Maybe he could do what the Israelis do. (they say they do it anyway)
Get on the phone and tell them what is going to disappear.