The rejection of euthanasia is illogical

Well aborting an infant you know will have some kind of disability like down syndrome or some other thing from using a sonogram or blood tests for chromosomes is similar to Spartan eugenics its just that Spartan women didn't have that at their disposal.
 
Now one could turn the argument around and say "well, you don't contribute anything either"...and you're free to think that. Although nonetheless one can't deny that there is definitely a difference between the healthy and unhealthy, the mentally fit and mentally insane. A very objective difference. Thus if human beings are to be purely logical, efficient beings, then why do we sustain the useless and defend ideals for the sake of defending ideals?

But how do you define the mentally insane? Schizophrenics or those who go into mania? There are a lot of functional people we consider 'insane'. Also personality disorders such as psychopathy are not considered 'insane' its a statement about who they are and they fully understand what they do but you wouldn't want a bunch of jeffery dahmers running around would you. You have to be specific about what you mean by 'insane' and what physical disorders you speak of.

Also how do you define a contributing member of society?
 
Involuntary euthanasia is a system wide-open to corruption and exploitation.
You mean like government? Yet we still have that. Interesting.

I know your new world view advocates the 'survival of the fittest' mentality, but remember that we are not like other animals in many ways. Indeed, I can recall you suggesting that animals who are of no use to us should be disposed of, in order to free up resources for humans. But if humans loose the morality and compassion that sets us apart, what would give us that right?
What gives people the right to do anything? Proclamation.

I find you unhealthy. Would you care to sign up for the piolet program?
This is a very poor argument as it ignores various factors

a) Society - if the majority of society did find me unhealthy, and legally proposed my euthanasia then yes, I would have no choice
b) It's quite simple to objectively measure sickness

It also is an argument based on emotion; you attempt to frighten me in order to defeat my argument although, then, you are not using logic. Logically, in the interest of the survival of the human species, what good comes out of the weak and genetically unfit?

Lack of stamina is a clear sign of weakness and sub-standard genetic stock.
Stamina doesn't depend entirely on genetics, for one; and two I do not lack stamina at all.

And that Norsefire, is what you are advocating, whether you understand it or not.
'Course I understand it. But it's interesting reading this argument; it's based on emotion. You are attempting to get me to disagree with my original proposition on an emotional basis, and not a logical one. Logically, again, show me what the genetically unfit and sick contribute to the survival of the species. For many, it's quite literally nothing.

Thus why sustain them? Are you not a logical person? Your emotion is being counter productive; you are advocating that we sustain the unhealthy.
 
Logically, again, show me what the genetically unfit and sick contribute to the survival of the species. For many, it's quite literally nothing.

Thus why sustain them?

If you isolate this question then the answer is none, there is no logical reason to sustain them nor does it contribute to the survival of the species.
 
It depends on who you ask. You can't say with 100% certainity that the incapacitated contribute absolutely nothing to society. Their exsistence impacts the people around them who may or may not contribute great things to society because of their experiences with said "waste of space". Every cloud has a silver lining sort of thing. Like some who finds a way to prevent Autism because their sister had severe autism. A subject they would not have had any interest in otherwise. So the sister with severe autism was not a complete waste of resources since she inspired a great discovery.
 
Very many contribute literally nothing.

For instance, the ones hooked up to machines that are simply vegetables, and I intend no disrespect as I genuinly feel sorry for them. I am merely arguing that, if human beings seek to be as logical as possible, there are a great many alterations that must be made to human society.

However human beings are also beings of emotion, which influences culture and tradition; we are not creatures of purely logic.
 
And therein we come to the conclusion that human beings are illogical.

Ha! We didn't need this thread to figure that out. People have been taught to emotionalize certain issues, it comes in handy when certain ideas like euthanasia or culling the disabled or race comes to the forefront as the emotion thwarts discussion and demonizes ideas.

C'est dommage.

Norse: I am merely arguing that, if human beings seek to be as logical as possible, there are a great many alterations that must be made to human society.

What on earth makes you believe humans are seeking to be as logical as possible?
 
C'est dommage.
En effet


What on earth makes you believe humans are seeking to be as logical as possible?

Nothing, although then it is laughable to see those on these boards claiming to be Mr. Logic and yet are shown to be just as emotionally stimulated and motivated as everybody else.
 
But how do you define the mentally insane? There are a lot of functional people we consider 'insane'.

My first suggestion would be ....insane = anyone who frequents or posts on any Internet forum similar to "sciforurms" or the like. And as soon as we find them, we should elimininate them for the good of society! :D

Baron Max
 
Yes but morality is not the only counter-argument.

Involuntary euthanasia is a system wide-open to corruption and exploitation. It would also be almost impossible to regulate. As for voluntary euthanasia, history has shown us that it can be a slippery slope. It also puts a lot of pressure on the most vulnerable members of society, who would do anything to relieve the burden on their families.

Proper palliative care would make euthanasia unnecessary - these people are not going to go on living indefinitely. It also undermines the motivation in doctors to provide good care for their patients, and gives them far too much power. Cutting costs would become the main goal and not saving people's lives. Perhaps even those that are seriously injured and could be saved (to go on to become functioning members of society) would be allowed to die.

I know your new world view advocates the 'survival of the fittest' mentality, but remember that we are not like other animals in many ways. Indeed, I can recall you suggesting that animals who are of no use to us should be disposed of, in order to free up resources for humans. But if humans loose the morality and compassion that sets us apart, what would give us that right?
Involuntary euthanasia is murder, plain and simple.
 
My first suggestion would be ....insane = anyone who frequents or posts on any Internet forum similar to "sciforurms" or the like. And as soon as we find them, we should elimininate them for the good of society! :D

Baron Max

Ok, so when are we going to off ourselves ?
 
No it isn't. That's like saying capital punishment is murder; it's involuntary but justified.
 
No it isn't. That's like saying capital punishment is murder; it's involuntary but justified.

And what is the justification ? And, by the way, since you are comparing it to capital punishment, why do you call it euthanasia and not punishment ?

And another thing, capital punishment is viewed as an undesirable sentence (understatement) in most of the western world.
 
And what is the justification ? And, by the way, since you are comparing it to capital punishment, why do you call it euthanasia and not punishment ?

The justification is that it is beneficial for the overall health of the species

Also because nobody is being punished; it's simply maintenance.

And another thing, capital punishment is viewed as an undesirable sentence (understatement) in most of the western world.
Not really; and what do you mean an undesirable sentence? Sure it's undesirable...for the criminal.

In the US there is extremely strong support for it, and in alot of Europe there's significant support; in fact in many places it is in the majority position. The only reason it isn't used is because the EU doesn't allow, but then again the justice system over there is mocked quite a bit for being far too lenient.

Although I'll debate that with you in another thread if you're interested.
 
The justification is that it is beneficial for the overall health of the species

Also because nobody is being punished; it's simply maintenance.
No one is being punished ? It's maintenance ? I thought we were talking about people, not machines.
Killing people for what they are is punishment alright, and picking out some distinct group to kill is called genocide.
Anyway, I think these views of yours make you an unhealthy element within society.

Not really; and what do you mean an undesirable sentence? Sure it's undesirable...for the criminal.

In the US there is extremely strong support for it, and in alot of Europe there's significant support; in fact in many places it is in the majority position. The only reason it isn't used is because the EU doesn't allow, but then again the justice system over there is mocked quite a bit for being far too lenient.

Although I'll debate that with you in another thread if you're interested.
Wrong.
 
No one is being punished ? It's maintenance ? I thought we were talking about people, not machines.
Killing people for what they are is punishment alright, and picking out some distinct group to kill is called genocide.
Thus you reject the idea on an emotional ground, not a logical one. Humans are machines; are you saying we have souls? Or are somehow divines? We are simply walking factories and one could say the most important purpose is reproduction



About.....? That isn't wrong. In the US the death penalty is in the majority; in Poland and in a number of European countries, especially Eastern Europe, it's in the majority. In Russia it's far, far, in the majority

In the UK it's not in the majority but it's something like 35-45% that support it.
 
Thus you reject the idea on an emotional ground, not a logical one. Humans are machines; are you saying we have souls? Or are somehow divines? We are simply walking factories and one could say the most important purpose is reproduction
Good luck with that in life.
 
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