The Qur'an

Michael said:
NO 786 other brainwashed theist agree. And what they really agree on is they is they can not admit to themselves that even the possibility exists their silly superstition is crap.
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I think many of the people said the same thing that enough info isn't there to answer the question, as your questions have too many assumption.

By the way thanks for bringing the info from another thread to this thread.

Also thanks for ignoring my answer to your question.

Also thanks for again not providing an example which I requested

Thanks for reinstating the assumption that you have learned nothing from life

Thanks for ignoring what is posted on this thread to continue with you Xenu crap.

Thanks for rendering this discussion pointless due to the above reasons which I have thanked you for.

Peace be unto you ;)

PS-:wave:
 
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786 said:
Anways here is something Enlightening (for me) :

"O mankind! We have created you male and female from Adam and Eve, and Allah has made you nations and tribes that you may know one another. Lo! The noblest of you in the Hereafter, (in the sight of Allah; on the Day of Judgment, (is the best in conduct) in the life of the world."
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Quote Grimms or Aesop. Same thing. Of course, you'll find far more "enlightenment" from those than anything found in the Quran.
 
(Q) said:
Quote Grimms or Aesop. Same thing. Of course, you'll find far more "enlightenment" from those than anything found in the Quran.
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Great.... I don't think I made the claim that the enlightenment found in the Quran is not to be found by others, in fact the Quran says to ponder upon God's creation for surely their are signs in them. So the fact that I can find enlightenment from other sources is actually great!

BTW I haven't read Grimms or Aesop, actually I haven't read most of the philosophers, I try to find meaning by myself :D

Peace be unto you ;)
 
786 said:
Great.... I don't think I made the claim that the enlightenment found in the Quran is not to be found by others, in fact the Quran says to ponder upon God's creation for surely their are signs in them.
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There are no signs of gods in nature, none whatsoever. And, there is far more to contemplate and far more value from Grimms and Aesop than the Quran. The only thing you may find unusual about them is the talking animals. But, of course, if you believe in the Quran, you'll believe in all kinds of magic.

So the fact that I can find enlightenment from other sources is actually great!
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The fact that I find intolerance, violence, lying, oppression and murder in the Quran is enlightening as well. Just not the kind of enlightenment one is fond.

BTW I haven't read Grimms or Aesop, actually I haven't read most of the philosophers, I try to find meaning by myself
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Too bad. Sounds like you'll remain quite ignorant.
 
(Q) said:
There are no signs of gods in nature, none whatsoever. And, there is far more to contemplate and far more value from Grimms and Aesop than the Quran. The only thing you may find unusual about them is the talking animals. But, of course, if you believe in the Quran, you'll believe in all kinds of magic.



The fact that I find intolerance, violence, lying, oppression and murder in the Quran is enlightening as well. Just not the kind of enlightenment one is fond.



Too bad. Sounds like you'll remain quite ignorant.
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Thanks for your enlightening opinions :D

Peace be unto you ;)
 
(Q) said:
So, you're not going to show us all where the "signs of gods" are in nature?
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They are everywhere, and I can't show it to you... you have to show them to yourself. I find everything in nature beautiful example of God's power... The matter is the difference of perspective.... Most of you interpret it in the context of science alone... I interpret it in the context of science and God.... Science does appreciate the beauty and wealth of knowledge that exists in the universe, so they do agree with the "signs" being amazing but they do not link them to God, I do. I believe a time will come that science will advance so far as to make God the only option for the explanation, right now they just attribute everything to their own findings, although ofcourse they will never admit it. The more science I learn the more I believe in God. Likewise the more science many of you learn the more you do NOT believe in God. This is in line with the teachings of the Quran that some are guided and some misguided by the same signs.

Now having said that this is based on perspective and so as you know the discussion will become: Does God exist or not? I think we had many threads on that so its not like I can change your mind to show you any connections unless I have some novel way of doing it which no one has ever used. (I'm working on it :rolleyes:)

Yeah, I get that. You can dispense with that bit of patronizing on every post, thanks.
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Really?

Peace be unto you :D
 
786 said:
They are everywhere, and I can't show it to you...
you have to show them to yourself.
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What a surprise. :rolleyes:

I find everything in nature beautiful example of God's power...
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That would most likely be due to cult indoctrination and nothing to do with nature as nature only demonstrates itself as self-creating. It would appear your call for enlightenment is merely verbal flatulence. Well done.
 
(Q) said:
What a surprise.
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Enlightenment is a personal "phenomenon" and no one can cause you to see it. I think you can see nature with your eyes so when I said "I can't show it to you" that would most definitely exclude nature but rather the "meaning" behind it that would be deemed "enlightenment". What I am surprised at is that people here seem to not understand simple sentences that require very little critical thinking.


(Q) said:
That would most likely be due to cult indoctrination and nothing to do with nature as nature only demonstrates itself as self-creating. It would appear your call for enlightenment is merely verbal flatulence. Well done.
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It would appear to me that you seem to think "enlightenment" is a fact (nature creating itself) but rather it is simply an experience. Otherwise you can just read all the books in science. "Chloroplast is the organelle in which photosynthesis takes place". Wow! Enlightening :rolleyes: Everyone experiences nature in a different way. It would appear to me that you don't even know what "enlightenment" actually is....:eek: There is a difference between something being just informative and something being enlightening.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
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786 said:
BTW I haven't read Grimms or Aesop, actually I haven't read most of the philosophers, I try to find meaning by myself
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Most people who are trying to find meaning by themselves find "the philosophers" helpful. Also, the storytellers.

Aesop is not usually considered one of "the philosophers", but instead the standard collector of fables- many of which have roots in Arabic Islamic teaching parables, which Muslims of the past have employed in their search for meaning and enlightenment - if you care about such historical details.
 
iceaura said:
Most people who are trying to find meaning by themselves find "the philosophers" helpful. Also, the storytellers.

Aesop is not usually considered one of "the philosophers", but instead the standard collector of fables- many of which have roots in Arabic Islamic teaching parables, which Muslims of the past have employed in their search for meaning and enlightenment - if you care about such historical details.
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That is good information. Its not like I don't like philosophers I simply choose to try to think about things without them. Although I am sure that they would definitely be helpful as they have spent much of their life with great amount of thinking, some quotations by famous philosophers are also wonderful. Since you mention this historical information I might try reading up on him a little bit.

Thanks for the info.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
786 said:
Enlightenment is a personal "phenomenon" and no one can cause you to see it. I think you can see nature with your eyes so when I said "I can't show it to you" that would most definitely exclude nature but rather the "meaning" behind it that would be deemed "enlightenment". What I am surprised at is that people here seem to not understand simple sentences that require very little critical thinking.
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Or, most likely, they don't understand sentences that make no sense, like the ones you're posting here.

There is no meaning behind nature, it just is. The fact that your holy book makes such claims is due to the ignorance of those who wrote it many years ago. Sadly, it appears myth and superstition have continued to dominate the human condition as a result.

It would appear to me that you don't even know what "enlightenment" actually is....:eek: There is a difference between something being just informative and something being enlightening.
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Gosh, I'm so glad you're here to tell me that I'm unable to use dictionary.
 
(Q) said:
Or, most likely, they don't understand sentences that make no sense, like the ones you're posting here.
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Well the sentence would make sense if you knew what you are talking about. If you don't know what you are talking about and then when you read a sentence that I wrote which is talking about what was supposed to be talked about then you most definitely would not understand it. (This paragraph was not meant to confuse you :D)

(Q) said:
There is no meaning behind nature, it just is.
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Yes I know you are simply looking at the facts. That is why you don't know what enlightenment is...in brief you must take something from the facts to be "enlightened" or if you simply took the fact as is then you have simply become more informed not "enlightened", and that is what I meant by "meaning". My assumption is that you assumed the wrong thing from what I meant by "meaning", but that is okay because I understand that you don't understand anything about this subject so I can't have high hopes of you in regards to this matter.

Gosh, I'm so glad you're here to tell me that I'm unable to use dictionary.
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Apparently you didn't use it as it shows above. Or it may be that you are using a different meaning of the word than I am which could explain everything. But if you had the dictionary then you most certainly would have known the various derived meanings, but yet you failed to understand my sentence which actually leads me to question your ability to use a dictionary, if you actually used one to begin with :scratchin:

Peace be unto you ;)
 
Michael said:
The Qur'an is a book with the thoughts and ideas of "The" Creator. "The" Creator of Everything in Existence. I mean, electrons, ... everything. These are supernaturally beyond-the-ability-of-mortal-beings to have thought up sort of thoughts. They are from a mind that is vastly, vastly superior then anything that anyone could ever imagine.

Yet, other than Muslims, no one else seems to think it's all that good... ... ....


It just seems that if there were any, ANY, unbelievers out there poo-pooing Islam, well, you just open the Qur'an and by the power of it's perfection, they would "see the light! The Truth, THE GOD!!!" But, meh, that's not the case. As a matter of fact, some people even become atheist AFTER reading it??!?!?


It just seems ODD is all, I'm so, so, so, very confused.


One would think that such a book would have made it's way into all cultures by now? It's POWER would permeate all that read it. Yet, that hasn't happened. Not at all.

Some people even study it and walk away thinking exactly the opposite?!?! They think it was from Satan!!!?? How can this be?


I'm just so, so, so, very confused..... :bawl:
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Many people study the Bible, many people study evolution, and end up believing the opposite! Although, you would think that it would have wiggled into society better than it has.
 
(Q) said:
Then, you'll never learn very much and your imagination will rule your worldview, much like it does now.
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That is why I debate and discuss, so I actually experience what other peoples' worldviews are too and if I find no satisfaction in their answers then it is logical (at least the usual practice) to stick with your own worldview. I am sure that I have heard some of those "philosophers" worldviews resounding in this forum as well. The name associated with the philosophy is not as important to me as the philosophy itself. I have come across many philosophies in this forum and other discussions so its not like how you say it.

Peace be unto you ;)
 
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