The Proof for ETI

HOW IT BENEFITS US

Q: What is the agenda of the Disclosure project?

A: What it says - DISCLOSURE - FULL disclosure.

Q: Why does it want Disclosure?

Is it:

A) We need to know Aliens exist
B) We must not weaponize space
C) We must reveal the suppressed technologies

A: 1B10A100C

Q: What is 1B10A100C

A: The strongest sentiment projected by the Disclosure project, is NOT that they want a ban on the weaponization of space. It is also NOT they want the existence of aliens to be known. It IS, they want the suppressed technologies of anti gravitation, cold fusion, zero-point energies and other such advanced technologies to be made public.

Q: Hang on, that's hogwash, if we have such technologies, then why the hell are we still in the fossil fuel, and hydrogen age.

That is a valid question, and you should realise, you have been hoodwinked for more than 50 years. Had the government been open and honest, today, life would have been turned on its ear, in a good way. The implications of such technologies are DRASTIC.

1: Complete eradication of poverty all over the world. Everyone would be rich.
2: A power balance of the world in complete equilibrium.
3: The dependence on fossil fuels, oil, nuclear energy, fusion, anti-matter near completely eliminated, thus minimizing war.
4: Elimination of pollution, electromagnetic radiation, and Ozone layer depletion.
5: Global Boundaries evaporating. Trips from London to Tokoyo, in less than 10 min. Public transportation in personal flying cars, that could even traverse continents.
6: The world uniting as one, and becoming a super intelligent social organism (a natural stage in evolution)
7: Enabling of space exploration, and interstellar travel.
8: This maybe a negative, or a positive, but super powerful weapons, that dwarf nuclear weapons, fusion weapons or even anti-matter weapons.
9: Being able to regulate, and control our own weather.

We are talking about a modern GOLDEN AGE for all of the world, that the government has denied us to now, and for reasons that are clear; POWER! In a world where 90% of the worlds economy and resources is controlled by a handful of multinationals and a handful of countries, like US, Europe and Japan, or the G-7 with 3rd world countries like Africa, and 2nd world countries like India and China, being completely dependent on the western world. A unipolar world, where all prospeity, power, and respect becomes the domain of a select few; the ramafications of those technologies, would balance the equilbrium of power, all countries would become self-sufficient and independent, and the multinationals and oil companies would collapse. The biggest blow, would be to the US pride, as it would lose it's global hegemonic status.

2: There would be massive, absolutely massive, loss of jobs, like what happened in the beginning of the industrial age, yet on a much larger scale. Power plants, nuclear plants, gas, automobiles, oil companies, aviation and many other multinationals would be rendered obsolete. At the same time however, new jobs will be created in new fields.

3: All countries, and even terrorist organizations, could in the near future have weapons so powerful, they could destroy a continent - namely the US.

Q: No way! How could get we get this level of technology already, surely this is thousands of years away!

A: We have got it in two ways:

1: Indigenous research
2: Alien technology

Our ancients, in particular the Hindu seers of India, have always known of 5th manifestation of the physical world - the ether. The ether pervades all, it is like a wind, that is everywhere, and it is a near infinite source of energy. In fact it is calculated, the energy in the size of a cup of coffee, has enough energy to evaporate all the oceans of the world. We only have to tap it.
We have always pondered it's existence, and in the early 19th century, Tesla, who discovered the AC current, among other things, was able to create free energy devices, using special configurations of electromagnets. Think about it. We can produce magnatism from electricity, and electricity from magantism. However, we don't actually know, why electricity is produced, and we now understand that it is produced from the quantum vacuum. Thus we can amplify how much electricity is produced, with special configurations of magnets. This is the simplest method, of acquiring free energy. There are many others too that enable dramatic aquisition of energy, and the energy avaiable to us varies from frequency of matter from 1 hertz to 10^44 hertz. I will elaborate more on this later.

Even Anti-gravity technology, is our own discovery, T. Townsend Brown, an American physicist, discovered the Biefield brown effect, and how gravity can be manipulated at high voltages. Then later on, Russian scientist Dr Podklietnov discovered how to generate anti gravity from a spinning superconductor. Can you see the connection with the quantum vacuum, electricity, maganatism.

In fact, such leaps in technology are allowed by novelty theory, where the time between each paradigm shift decreases exponentially So the next will be sooner, than the last.

2: This was even before aliens met us. So how did they actually help us? Well, they didn't. We reverse engineered their technology from captured UFO's and based on the principles of Tesla, and Brown, we could understand their technology. It may have taken us centuries to a thousand years to apply Tesla and Brown's technology before we could reach the level of their technology had we not had Alien assistance, wether indirectly or directly. In fact, according to one witness of the Disclosure project, Mr. Don Phillips, Lockheed Skunkworks, USAF, and CIA Contractor, some of of our current public technologies are extraterrestrial based; computer chips; night vision; bullet proof vests.

Q: Great, so it's mostly about disclosing the technologies. ET's isn't really that important.

A: Yes and no. It is mostly about our future, our prosperity, and for human civilization to advance to the next stage of evolution. However, we must learn to think beyond our own world, and see that we are a part of a universe seething with all kinds of life, and that we are not alone, and we are all together, sharing the same universe, asking the same questions. Suddenly, we have infinite minds, and cultures, arts, traditions, places to go, that we can all share. There is so much aliens can do for us; we can learn about our universe; our past; how we came here; our religions; their religions and beliefs and philosophies, and how we can become a more content and a peaceful civilization, and how to conquer our inner demons. It would be a completely enrichening and enlightening experience, and prepare us for the next transition in evolution: The inter-galactic super intelligent organism.

So there you have it. This is what the Disclosure project does for us. We are on the anvil of a golden age, that belongs to us, and some power hungry forces, are denying us that. No more bills, and a much bigger world for us to explore. We need to fight against these forces. Not against the disclosure project. There are 400 witnesses, and I've listed more than 40 of their names, really, how can we ignore their claims now?

In the next post, I am going to produce some of the summaries and testimonies of the witnesses.
 
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As promised:

Summary of witnesses and their testimonies.

I am providing you a short summary for each witness. You can check the full list, and the complete summaries of each witness at this web site: http://www.topsecrettestimony.com/6monthsummary.htm

I am doing this for the benefit, of those do will not click links, and for the benefit of putting this into the correct perspective. So many false claims have been made about the tesimonies of these witnesses, that it should be here for all to see.

Brigadier General Steven Lovekin, Esq.: Army National Guard Reserve, October 2000
He was familiar with Project Blue Book and related how that project documented highly scientific and specific UFO cases from very reliable sources.

FAA Division Chief John Callahan: October 2000
In his testimony he tells about a 1986 Japanese Airlines 747 flight that was followed by a UFO for 31 minutes over the Alaskan skies. The UFO also trailed a United Airlines flight until the flight landed.

Kasher
John C. "Jack" Kasher, PhD, is an authority on UFOs and a professor of physics and astronomy at the U of Nebraska at Omaha (UNO). One of his research projects has been to analyze the UFOs appearing on video footage taken by NASA during Discovery Space Shuttle Mission STS-48.

Merle Shane McDow:
US Navy Atlantic Command, October 2000

Mr. McDow was present when a UFO was tracked by radar and seen by pilots visually moving at high speed up and down the Atlantic coast. The Command Center was put on Zebra alert and Admiral Trane gave the order to force down the UFO.

Sgt. Chuck Sorrells: US Air Force (ret.), December 2000
Chuck Sorrells is a career Air Force military man who was at Edwards Air Force Base in 1965 when not one, but at least seven UFOs appeared over Edwards Air Force Base airspace - The event lasted for 5 or 6 hours

Security Officer Larry Warren: United States Air Force, September 2000
He was present during an event in 1980 when an extraterrestrial vehicle landed, hovered, and interacted with Air Force personnel on base.

Captain Robert Salas: December 2000
He testifies about a UFO incident on the morning of March 16, 1967 where 16 nuclear missiles simultaneously became non-operational at two different launch facilities immediately after guards saw UFOs hovering above.

Lt. Colonel Dwynne Arneson US Air Force (ret.), September 2000
there one day he received a classified message that said that a UFO had crashed in Spitsbergen Norway.

Crerie
saw a triangular formation.

Colonel Ross Diedrickson: US Air Force/AEC (ret.), September 2000
Many reports kept coming in that UFOs were seen at various nuclear storage facilities and some of the manufacturing plants

Mr. Franklin Carter: US Navy, December 2000
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He tells of an incident where he witnessed a clear, unambiguous radar contact speeding along at 3,400 miles an hour.

Mr. Gordon Creighton: Former British Foreign Service Official, September 2000

In broad daylight he saw a disc-shaped, silent UFO with a blue white light on top flying very fast.

Staff Sergeant Stoney Campbell: US Air Force, October 1999
In the summer of 1967 he was guarding a B-52 at a SAC AFB in Oklahoma when suddenly, directly over one of the B-52's, a huge bluish haze appeared. It was in the form of a boomerang wing

Lt. Colonel Wojtecki
He discovered the next morning when he reported for duty that for six
hours, a UFO was seen hovering over a group of B-52's containing nuclear
weapons.

Sergeant Clifford Stone, United States Army,
Stone has seen living and dead extraterrestrials in his official duties on an army team that retrieved crashed ET crafts.

Admiral Lord Hill-Norton, July 2000
Lord Hill-Norton is a five-star Admiral and the former Head of the British Ministry of Defense who was kept in the dark about the UFO subject during his official capacities.

Mr. Don Johnson, December 2000
In his testimony he states that he also worked on a huge electronic diagram from Hughes-Suma Corporation. In the center of the diagram in a large rectangle it said “antigravity chamber.”

Nick Pope: British Ministry of Defense Official
"I believe that governments and the military, and indeed private researchers, politicians- whoever- should place everything in the public domain on this issue.

Sgt. Karl Wolfe: US Air Force
"I didn’t want to look at it any longer than that, because I felt that my life was in jeopardy.

Monsignor Corrado Balducci, September 2000
He has been featured on national Italian television numerous times to express that extraterrestrial contact is a real phenomenon and “not due to psychological impairment”.

Dr. Roberto Pinotti: Italian UFO expert
The UFO problem is not only a scientific problem, it is also an intelligence problem.

Senator Daniel K. Inouye
There exists a shadowy Government

Mr. Mark McCandlish, US Air Force
In his testimony, you will learn that the US not only has operational antigravity propulsion devices, but we have had them for many, many years, and they have been developed through the study, in part, of extraterrestrial vehicles over the past fifty years.

Mr. Harland Bentley
Mr. Bentley recounts a story of personally witnessing a UFO crash at a Nike Ajax Missile Facility in Maryland and viewing a group of UFO's on radar take off at a calculated 17,000 miles an hour

Lance Corporal Jonathan Weygandt: US Marine Corps
You never saw this.' I 'don't exist' and 'this situation never happened.' And if you tell anybody, you will just come up missing…

Theodore C. Loder III, Ph.D.
Dr. Ted Loder is a respected scientist and oceanography professor at the University of New Hampshire. After learning from his cousin, Brigadier General Stephen Lovekin, that the ET/UFO subject is not only real....

Dr. Richard Haines - November 2000
Dr. Haines has been a NASA research scientist since the mid 1960's. He has worked on the Gemini, Apollo, and Skylab programs as well as several others. Over the past 30 years, Dr. Haines has compiled over 3,000 cases of unusual visual and radar sightings of unexplained aerial phenomena.

Lieutenant Colonel Charles Brown (ret.), US Air Force
He was assigned to work on Project Grudge where he was responsible for investigating UFO's and came to recognize that on some cases there were no viable conventional explanations.

Lt. Col. John Williams
During his time in the military he knew that there was a facility inside of Norton Air Force Base in California that no one was to know about. He heard that there was a UFO craft stored there and that people such as certain Senators including Bob Dole had visited the facility.

James Kopf: US Navy Crypto Communications
‘I would like to remind the crew that certain events that take place on board a major naval combative vessel are considered classified and should not be discussed with anyone without a need to know.’ And that was all he said.”

Dr. Paul Czysz
Dr. Paul Czysz is a Professor of Aeronautical Engineering at Parks College in St. Louis. He spent 8 years in the Air Force at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, and another 30 years working for McDonnell-Douglas in the field of exotic technologies.
the idea of using these weapons against extraterrestrial targets would be suicidal.

Lieutenant Bob Walker, US Army
Lieutenant Walker was a 2nd lieutenant in the Army. After World War II at a NASA (then NACA) open house he saw a 30-foot saucer-shaped craft which had been brought back from Germany for study.

Mr. Michael W. Smith, US Air Force
Michael Smith was an Air Traffic Controller with the Air Force in Oregon and, subsequently, in Michigan. At both of these facilities he and others witnessed UFOs tracked on radar and moving at extraordinary speeds.

Professor Robert Jacobs, Lt. US Air Force
In 1964, during a test of the first missile they filmed, they caught on film a UFO traveling right next to the missile. He says it looked like two saucers cupped together with a round ping-pong ball like surface on top. The film showed that from the ball a beam of light was directed at the missile.

Dr. Carol Rosin
Von Braun revealed to Dr. Rosin a plan to justify weapons in spaced based on hoaxing an extraterrestrial threat.

Commander Graham Bethune, US Navy (retired)
November 2000
In his testimony he explains how he was flying a group of VIP’s and other pilots into Argentia, Newfoundland when they all witnessed a 300 foot UFO that traveled 10,000 feet straight up in a fraction of a second toward their plane and was on radar.

Testimony of Major George A. Filer III
November 2000
Major George Filer was an Air Force Intelligence Officer who not only had an extraordinary encounter with a massive UFO on radar over the United Kingdom but later, in the 1970s while he was at McGuire Air Force Base in New Jersey, found out that an extraterrestrial biological entity had been shot at Fort Dix.

Lt. Frederick Fox: US Navy Pilot
There is a publication called JANAP 146 E that had a section that says you will not reveal any information regarding the UFO phenomenon under penalty of $10,000.00 fine and ten years in jail.

Mr. John Maynard
Defence Intelligence Agency Official
These are entities that were created out of people in the Pentagon to become a ‘beltway bandit’ -- received projects, grants, and monies to do certain projects that were so highly classified and compartmentalized that you know only about four people would know what was going on. So it was that tightly controlled.”

Mr. Don Phillips, Lockheed Skunkworks, USAF, and CIA Contractor
NATO did research into the origin of ET races, and disseminated reports to the leaders of various countries. Mr. Phillips further states that there are records and filmed documentation of meetings in California in 1954 between ETs and leaders of the USA. He lists a few of the technologies we were able to develop because of the ETs: computer chips, lasers, night vision, bulletproof vests, and concludes,

Captain Lori Rehfeldt
October 2000
Lori Rehfeldt was stationed at the 81st Security Police Squadron at RAF Bentwaters in England during the UFO events that occurred in December 1980
 
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Persol,

Did I see you use Klass to back one of your debunking aids?? LOL! This guy is the biggest tool on the planet.

Nice job CrazyMike. Wish I had seen it earlier. I'll comment on some things as time permits.
 
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First and foremost, Edgar Mitchell DOES demand disclosure and full openess from the government. According to the questionable item you produced.
Many UFO researchers demand disclosure of what they believe. These are just 4 references of many who don't agree with that Greer is saying.

Further more, how credible is this news. Do you have another source. I do not quite trust Rense.com. Does anybody?

Lol, but you trust the disclosure project, who is charging you money and has been on Art Bell. How..... nieve. Search usenet, you'll find many more sources.

Out of the names you quoted, none of the others have dropped out. I asked you distinctly, name the several that have dropped out.

Dropped out? This isn't a club, it's a list of names. The names I gave you were ones who had complaints with Greer's exagaration/cause and didn't want to be listed.

Here is a full list of witnesses: (not full 400)

Oh yeah, i forgot... gotta make that money. The US secret government is bad because they want to keep oil so they can make money. Greer's a great guy though, because he has the 'truth' and wants to keep it limited so that he can make money. Uh huh...
 
And since you like cut and paste oh so much:

Rebecca Long - About Greer's 'UFO Hunt'

"The major turning point came when Dr.Stephen Greer, who teaches
believers how to use a choreographed waving of flashlights to lure
alien spaceships, took a bunch of the UFO believers up on a
mountain to lure UFOs. He would not allow me to go along,
because he said that "Aliens will not come if Skeptics are present
because they know Skeptics carry shotguns." Because by this
time many of the UFO believers liked me personally, this offended
them. Also, it caused them to wonder what Greer had to hide by
forbidding a skeptic to attend. So a couple of the UFO Forum
members secretly told me where "secret rendezvous point" was
from which they would proceed to the "UFO Staging Area". That
way I could follow them in my car and watch the proceedings from
a distance.

Greer took the group up to Black Rock Mountain ($300 a head) and
just before dusk had them go through their little light show to lure
UFOs. Then he had them watch the sky for their results. Pretty
soon they saw little specks of light moving north to south or east to
west. Some of the dots occasionally appeared to zig zag in their
course. Greer told the attendees they were UFOs. After it got
dark, people saw no more "spaceships".

At the next meeting of the Crazed Hedgehogs, everyone was
excited about the little lights they saw which were UFOs. At the
meeting after that, the accounts of some of them had evolved into a
closeup view of a spaceship. They could even see aliens moving
around inside through the spaceship windows. By the third
meeting, the spaceship had landed and there had been a Close
Encounters style pow wow with a bunch of aliens. Not much later,
there were claims that some UFO Forum members had left with
the aliens never to be seen again.

This was too much for the saner members of the UFO Forum. This
time they had been there themselves, and did not have to rely
solely on the accounts of others. So began having some serious
cognitive dissonance. Beginning just after the Greer field trip, a few
including Mark privately approached me and asked if perhaps the
moving dots could have been satellites. I explained why one sees
satellites right around dusk, what they look like, and gave him a
copy of TracSat program so he wouldn't have to take my word for
how many there are. With a flashlight dot on the wall, I
demonstrated to him the phenomenon of autokinesis (small
scanning movements of the eyeball), which causes dots like a star
to appear to move when stared at. Soon a few others, unknown to
each other, also approached me privately to ask the same thing.

Next thing I knew, UFO Forum members were showing up at
Georgia Skeptics meetings. Our group is a very nice bunch, who
totally welcomed these people even though they were still "true
believers". A few meetings later we had a talk on UFOs and were
showing a UFO video put out by Billy Meier which was obviously a
little model on a string. This same video had been shown at a
Crazed Hedgehog meeting, but there everybody found it convincing.
But away from those social pressures, the UFO Forum members
easily saw it for what it was."

Hehe... he's right on the level. I think it's funny that he charges people $300 to walk up a mountain with flashlights.
 
My feeling is that Persol has an 'association' with government. Nothing else can explain his total dedication to running down each and every point raised in support of the reality of the ET phenomenon. There can be no other explanation.
 
Tononi6, you had my respect... right up until that comment.
Now you just have me laughing. I have no problem with people making claims that they can back up.... but that site and it's owner are not very credible. Using it as a repeat source is a hazard to intelligence.

My feeling is that Persol has an 'association' with government

I could just as easily say "My feeling is that crazymikey has an 'association' with that site's income". That doesn't make it true, and doesn't make it any less paranoid.

running down each and every point raised in support of the reality of the ET phenomenon

Well actually no. I run down each and every point which is unsubstantiated, whether it be about UFOs, ETs, or physics. There have been UFO threads here which I just asked a question in, got a reasonable answer, and just watched. There was one a few months ago about a reported encounter at a missle silo... which to me sounded quite credible. I still dug into it a little, but stipped when they backed up their claims. Crazymikey and Greer have not backed up their claims. They have also taken quotes out of context from others and misrepresented them for their cause. Be it UFOs or religion, this is wrong.
 
VRob said:
Nice job CrazyMike. Wish I had seen it earlier. I'll comment on some things as time permits.

Thanks Vrob, looking forward to your contributions.
 
There is a fine like between rationality and irrationality, and you have almost crossed it. Please deal with all the evidence, I am providing, head on, rather than isolating a few, and assassinating their character, which is the weakest of counter-arguments. It is evident now, to most, you are petering out. It is not surprising either, as I said in the opening, the evidence for ETI is insurmountable.

I have no need to defend Steven Greer. I am well aware, all people have their shortcomings, and I well aware that Greer has his too, and he may have ulterior political motivations for this movement. I am only concerned with the 400 witnesses, 40 of whom I have enlisted, whose testimony is undeniable. Even if half of those witnesses, are honest, the same objective is achieved.

However, if you are adamant on assassinating characters, then you have 40 characters to assassinate of the ones I listed.

Further more, how credible is this news. Do you have another source. I do not quite trust Rense.com. Does anybody?[/b]
Lol, but you trust the disclosure project, who is charging you money and has been on Art Bell. How..... nieve. Search usenet, you'll find many more sources.

Disclosure project is a non-profit organization, they have even acquired non-profit status. For $5 you can access all the information on their web site. This is not a money-making venture.

As I asked you, please provide me another source, other than Rense.

Out of the names you quoted, none of the others have dropped out. I asked you distinctly, name the several that have dropped out.[/b]
Dropped out? This isn't a club, it's a list of names. The names I gave you were ones who had complaints with Greer's exagaration/cause and didn't want to be listed.

Give me a source, it's not Rense again is it? The claims of the 3 you listed, are apart of the testmony, and their testimonies have been recorded on video. Edgar isn't even listed.

Oh yeah, i forgot... gotta make that money. The US secret government is bad because they want to keep oil so they can make money. Greer's a great guy though, because he has the 'truth' and wants to keep it limited so that he can make money. Uh huh...

Wether Greer is a great guy, or not, is irrelavant to me. As I said, it is a non-profit organization. You can confirm it yourself if you so wish. Any money they make, is insignificant, compared to other internet businesses. They need some capitol to drive their movement.

US government is playing a completely different game, and it's not about oil, its about keeping power. You do realise, how dramaticaly the world would change, if what DP says is true - and for the better! So the US government, which is not technically correct, it is a shaow government that is operating worldwide but based in the USA, and it is commiting a highly unethical, immoral, and dastardly act, by denying us, what rightly belongs to us.

Don't you understand, what it means for us, not only a golden age, but everything that has happened in the last 50 years, did not have to happen. The innocent men and women that died in 9/11, did not have to happen. The Gulf wars, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Osama Bin Laden, did not have to happen. The billions that have suffered poverty, and starved to death, did not have to happen. Every bill we've paid and battled to pay, to acquire the luxuries of life, did not have to happen. Global warming, and Ozone layer depletion, did not have to happen.

All this we had to endure, ONLY because those in power, wanted to stay in power.
 
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So Aliens and alien technology make humans have more morals. Knowing where not alone makes us shape up and grow up. I dont think so seems people are people and keeping Aliens on the down low may be critical in the stability of the worlds economy and social structure.

If aliens have traveled here they are most likely cautious in what they do or ruthless in the stripping resources and colonizing. Its not suprising they would be cautious to begin with. I have to guess that the aliens come from a more advanced culture and perhaps have seen the effects a mass landing on a previously unexposed culture cuases. If I had stock in the PC market and Aliens showed up in mass the next day I would withdraw my stocks just knowing the aliens have to have something better then we do.
Look at the European invasion of the new world. The Europeans did not see it as an invasion but it is what happened. Native Americans where pushed out and displaced. But trade continued even while the Native Americans world was turning upside down they tried to get along.

Do we dare be as niave as the Native Americans where.
 
crazymikey said:
US government is playing a completely different game, and it's not about oil, its about keeping power. You do realise, how dramaticaly the world would change, if what DP says is true - and for the better! So the US government, which is not technically correct, it is a shaow government that is operating worldwide but based in the USA, and it is commiting a highly unethical, immoral, and dastardy act, by denying us, what rightly belongs to us.


I agree. They are trying to remain in power. Would you trust your family to a stranger. Try that on a broader scale of oh lets say a nation or even the whole world. No matter how kind an Alien race seems we dont know them we dont know their history or beliefs. They don't know ours.

What exactly is the Goverment denying us. Intense chaos perhaps. Possible Riots. Econimic failure. Saving us from our own overreactive hope that aliens will bring us all that we need. Announcing an intellegent race is found in the stars is big but not earth shattering. Announcing an intellegent space travelling alien right here on earth could be earth shattering.
 
While fear or suspicision is a natural response knowing that there are advanced alien civilizations out there frequently visiting Earth, and abducting us and performing experiments on us, like we are lab rats. We have to realise, that if they wanted to invade our planet, or destroy us, or do whatever to us, they would have done it long ago. They could wipe us out, if they so wish, but they haven't. On the contrary, they have been discreet and responsible by not causing public alarm, they have even rendered inert our missile silo's to save our own self.

Even if they were malevolent, and have a dark agenda against us. How could we fight against them? Imagine a bunch of neanderthals against the US army and air force.

Therefore, we have no other choice, but to trust them, and I trust a more advanced culture to be a peaceful and highly spiritually evolved civilization that respects other civilizations.

War, malice, envy, ignorance, arrogance, prejudice, racism, ego etc are biproducts of the lack of intelligence and they are counter-productive. The more intelligent and aware one becomes, the more in control of his emotions and senses he becomes, and the more he can progress and be content. For instance, compare human society of the stone age or the middle ages, to the society of today, there is a universe of a difference.

Why should the Aliens have malice for us then? In fact, it could be, the Aliens are benevolent and loving, amongst each other, but see us as nothing more than insects on the face of a beautiful planet. Much like we view other animals, heck at times, even other races, as insignificant.

Humanity is primitive, there is no question about that, but I find it hard to imagine, that we could be deemed completely insignificant, when we attest to the same consciousness, that they attest too. When we are capable of intelligence, technology, relationships, and thought. Even we have become much more accepting of animals less than intelligent than us, and have recognized their rights.

In a far more advanced alien civilization, that has overcome its own ego, ignorance, arrogance, prejudice, racism, it would be far more accepting of others, wether they are different life forms, different intelligences or different cultures.

You see, you are seeing them from the human perspective. We are by nature, a primitive, aggressive, prejudiced, ignorant, egotistical, self-centred species. We are capable of the malevolent agendas, the disregard for others, the projection of power over the meek, and yes, I could not trust my family with a stranger. However, I could trust them with a far advanced alien, who should be completely the opposite of all our qualities.

You see evolution is not regressive. From simple organisms, to social organisms, to social intelligent organiams, to super intelligent social organisms, to intergalactic social organisms. It is natural for us to continue to evolve, and it is illogical, that our control over our senses will not continue to evolve. If we are fully in control of our senses, we can transition to the next level, that is assimilate into the universe with the others.

Eventually however, and this only my theory, when we reach the threshold of intelligene - we cease to exist.

However, let's assume that this Alien civilization is disproportionately advanced. As in, it had reached technological milestones prematurely, before it was even ready, and managed to stay afloat. We could consider this a hostile civilation, that may want to invade us.

Do you think, the many other civilizations in the universe, will allow it? Think about it, if universe is seething with life, there has to be some form of infrastructure in place to govern them:

1: Monitoring and regulating the colonization of space
2: Monitoring primitive civilizations
3: Prohibition of intervention in primitive civilzations, unless pertinent
4: Inducting civilizations into the intergalactic community whence it becomes a spacefaring civilization

Emphasis on point 4. We have become a spacefaring civilzation, and are ready to be inducted into a community of civilizations.

Finally: You said, they are here to obtain our resources? For what? They have the access to the same quantum vacuum energy. Whatever they need to power, they can power for free, like we could. What do we have, that they don't, and can't find elsewhere?

So, don't worry, have faith in them. I am sure they only want, what is best for us, and are ready to embrace us - provided we actually grow up.

What exactly is the Goverment denying us. Intense chaos perhaps. Possible Riots. Econimic failure.

Yes, all changes happen, after a great revolution. It is a rule of nature, and just delaying it will not change the magnitude of the great revolution. The government is not worring about the revolution, though that maybe a small part of it, but the dissolution of its monopoly of power. If it was only about aliens, then one may understand, how dramatically it would impact society, if it was suddenly announced. However, that does not justify how they have withheld those technologies from us, that are nothing but beneficial for us, could have prevented so much horror that has befall humanity in the last 50 years.

They are still keeping it under the carpet today, and we as a society are much more open to ETI today. It has to come out now.
 
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FNG2k4 said:
No matter how kind an Alien race seems we dont know them we dont know their history or beliefs. They don't know ours.

I think they may know our history a little better than even we know it. There is very strong evidence that they've been here for a long, long time. This may in fact be one of the biggest reasons they are being concealed from the public.

On a side note: I still can't get over that Phillip Klass reference. Just too funny.
 
The biggest thing I'm saying is the Native Americans experienced what our world would experience. Our they better off?

I agree that if an alien race is here it would be more likely to be peaceful but the question was how long would that peace last. Again refering to the Native Americans and the Europeans. The Europeans expected better trade goods after getting tons of gold they thought they had it rich that the Natives would continue to supply goods but the Native Americans where unable to provide the goods and supplies the Europeans wanted to trade. The Europeans wanted Gold but settled for Furs(still a good trade just not great). It started slow but the expansion grew and the loss of the Native Americans Civ is a tragedy.

Sometimes the goods you want are not energy. Perhaps they want biological DNA. crops and plants that grow here. Animal species for zoos or manual labor. Animals dont need gas you just feed them(enviromentlly safe). The big point is we dont know them. But i can guess that an alien race landing here would be a huge change. You place your faith that they know whats best for us. I say if they are here the continued use of cation is in need. This is the same argument that Native Americans had with each other about the Europeans.

I guess my independant nature is getting to me. But there is alot of pride in independence and a handicap when you depend on someone else. For example what if an Alien race visits and has the medical cure for every problem we have, Aids, Cancer, Birth defects,and Heart attacks as a few examples. It's their technology are they required to give us this tech. No. They might set up hospitals and now we are forever in their thanks for these cures but we cant reproduce them at all. Once we have a marketable cure for cancer do you think they will continue research on it. Perhaps for a while but the money behind this research would dry up as the aliens medical facilities take root. Our medical knowledge would be stunted for a long time perhaps forever.

Invasion is not always on the front lines and its not always on purpose.
 
VRob said:
There is very strong evidence that they've been here for a long, long time.
Please provide it to us. So far, all "evidence" is anecdotal or unsubstantiated.

:m: Peace.
 
I agree Vrob, there is a chance they were in prehistory, and I'll provide some proof to verify the claim, but unfortunately I do not have enough to make a convincing case for it.
 
FNG2k4 said:
The biggest thing I'm saying is the Native Americans experienced what our world would experience. Our they better off?

I agree that if an alien race is here it would be more likely to be peaceful but the question was how long would that peace last. Again refering to the Native Americans and the Europeans. The Europeans expected better trade goods after getting tons of gold they thought they had it rich that the Natives would continue to supply goods but the Native Americans where unable to provide the goods and supplies the Europeans wanted to trade. The Europeans wanted Gold but settled for Furs(still a good trade just not great). It started slow but the expansion grew and the loss of the Native Americans Civ is a tragedy.

Sometimes the goods you want are not energy. Perhaps they want biological DNA. crops and plants that grow here. Animal species for zoos or manual labor. Animals dont need gas you just feed them(enviromentlly safe). The big point is we dont know them. But i can guess that an alien race landing here would be a huge change. You place your faith that they know whats best for us. I say if they are here the continued use of cation is in need. This is the same argument that Native Americans had with each other about the Europeans.

I guess my independant nature is getting to me. But there is alot of pride in independence and a handicap when you depend on someone else. For example what if an Alien race visits and has the medical cure for every problem we have, Aids, Cancer, Birth defects,and Heart attacks as a few examples. It's their technology are they required to give us this tech. No. They might set up hospitals and now we are forever in their thanks for these cures but we cant reproduce them at all. Once we have a marketable cure for cancer do you think they will continue research on it. Perhaps for a while but the money behind this research would dry up as the aliens medical facilities take root. Our medical knowledge would be stunted for a long time perhaps forever.

Invasion is not always on the front lines and its not always on purpose.

I understand your reservations, but seriously, you are comparing apples to oranges. We had and have not overcome our venomous tendencies, but Aliens most likely have. As I said, we have no choice, if they wanted to invade us at any point, then there is nothing we could do about it.

The cure for cancer, I wish we had one, my aunty just died 2 days ago from it, at only 40. I am not expecting the Aliens to bestow us with wonderous technology, that would be intervening in our natural evolution. I am just expecting them to contribute to our socieity with their cultures, arts, philosophies, and helping us understand our past, and where we are going.

You said, how long will the peace last? How long did the peace last, when China, and Britain, India, United states and every other nation in the world, united into one nation.
 
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Here is some proof of an advanced civilization in prehistory:

ramabridge3.jpg


Images of the southern tip of India taken from several Space Shuttle flights— STS033, STS044, STS051 and 51B, STS059—reveal a mysterious ancient bridge in the Palk Strait between India and Sri Lanka. The recently discovered link, officially named Adam’s Bridge after an 18th-century British explorer of the region, appears on the surface as a broken chain of shoals about 18 mi (30 km) long between the two land masses. The views from space clearly reveal the underwater continuity of the unique structure. The bridge’s graceful curvature and aggregate composition reveal that it is not a natural feature, but man-made. Geologists have determined it to be about 1,750,000 years old.

This information supports the credibility of the Vedic epic Ramayana, which is dated in the Treta-yuga, a historical period more than 1,700,000 years ago. The histories of Ramayana as well as recent archeological studies reveal that the first signs of human inhabitants in Sri Lanka date back to an equivalent time. In Ramayana there is quite a bit of information about a bridge built between Rameshwaram, India and the Sri Lankan coast under the supervision of Lord Rama, a dynamic and invincible figure. Rama built the bridge to invade Sri Lanka and rescue his queen Sita from her kidnapper Ravana, the king of Sri Lanka at the time.
 
I'm sorry to hear about your aunt. Cancer is such a nasty thing. I watched my grandmother waste away from some similiar problems.

Once again all you look at is the ones that are current. And even those have had ruff times.

What about Rome or the Ancient Greeks, Egypt was once on top. Nations that owned everything worth owning in the world fell. Rome was the world or what mattered of it.

History repeats itself. Comparing reactions when cultures meet for the first time has been repeated throughout the past. The only difference between these events "apples" and the possiblities of aliens landing "oranges" is what has happened to what might happen. The only way to base a situation logically is by what has happened before. Without a previous state to compare to you can't make an educated guess about what to do.

I stick with my question how long will the peace last. The Aliens dont have to start it. In fact I doubt the aliens would intentionally but a revolution is a possibilty. And an intersteller incidence will probably eventually happen.

I also agree that you must eventually make an alien presence a common fact. Without risk nothing is ever gained. I just dont think now is the time. I also dont think earth is the place. It would look better if we "met" them in space. It shows a more equal stance even if it is just an appereance. To many political problems arise when it seems you have been hiding ET from public for decades.

When dealling with the unkown too many variables have unpredictable effects. Caution is essential.
 
Crazymikey that bridge looks intresting. Not sure if Aliens built it but I would like to read more about it. where did you get that info?
 
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