The Problem of Hell
- Thread starter SetiAlpha6
- Start date
Also with this New World, will come the complete annihilation of freewill.
Doubt that, freewill is about choice, whatever government, or theocracy may exist in the future, a person's ability to choose whether to wear a white shirt or a black one is still on them. So free will won't be annihilated by no means as government or theocracy.
I agree!
I was thinking of the Christian justification for evil. Most Christians believe that evil must exist for freewill to exist. If that is true, then along with the removal of evil, in a New World, would also come the removal of the freewill to choose that evil. People in hell would be without the freewill to choose good and likewise people in heaven would be without the freewill to choose evil. In that Christian sense, it would seem that freewill would be annihilated.
But perhaps I am mistaken!
What do you think?
Freewill will exist during the thousand year rule of Jesus, as there will still be rebels, despite the wonderful conditions.
When the new Heaven and Earth come after that, the Bible doesn't say what will be the state of freewill.
When the new Heaven and Earth come after that, the Bible doesn't say what will be the state of freewill.
This thread delivers...
If guys like Adstar are going to heaven...send me to hell.
Back to the original topic:
What happens to a Catholic baby whom dies before it's baptism? Speculation? Odds?
Seti - you were doing so well, you caved somewhere around page 9. Be BRAVE! Any God that created this universe, rewards bravery far more than the humble zealot. Taking all the new testment at face value, the only people whom have a good shot at "Heaven" are the "ignorant"(whoops they could read! - *punt* too much knowledge) monks of medieval Europe.
If guys like Adstar are going to heaven...send me to hell.
Back to the original topic:
What happens to a Catholic baby whom dies before it's baptism? Speculation? Odds?
Seti - you were doing so well, you caved somewhere around page 9. Be BRAVE! Any God that created this universe, rewards bravery far more than the humble zealot. Taking all the new testment at face value, the only people whom have a good shot at "Heaven" are the "ignorant"(whoops they could read! - *punt* too much knowledge) monks of medieval Europe.
I think since there's no clear evidence that such places exists, heaven and hell are only ploys to manipulate. If the christian wants to believe in fairy tale about such places, they must realize they need to provide evidence other than just an ancient book says so!
When one dies, it's over, this is unfortunately a one way ticket, your heaven and hell are here while you live, when you die, you only seize to exist. To even postulate that another dimension of existence exists, is to deny this existence. This is the only existence that we are conscious of, when your consciousness seize to exist, there's no other form of existence. It's over. People need to come to grips with this, atheist and most secularist have, theist of any denomination, has the delusion that he/she will continue to live elsewhere after death, this is the delusion.
When one dies, it's over, this is unfortunately a one way ticket, your heaven and hell are here while you live, when you die, you only seize to exist. To even postulate that another dimension of existence exists, is to deny this existence. This is the only existence that we are conscious of, when your consciousness seize to exist, there's no other form of existence. It's over. People need to come to grips with this, atheist and most secularist have, theist of any denomination, has the delusion that he/she will continue to live elsewhere after death, this is the delusion.
Your wish may indeed be granted.
How can a baby be a catholic if it has not accepted the authority of the catholic authorities in all things doctrinal?
A human becomes a catholic only when it has done that.
All babies irrespective of their parentage have eternity with God. Baptism is not required.
So the baby in question has a 100% certainty of being with God in eternity.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Have you not seen my former post on this subject?
I will take it from the beginning. Human beings became tainted and unacceptable to be with God in eternity when they came to the knowledge of good and evil. That’s what the story of Adam and Eve is all about, how they obtained the knowledge of good and evil. Now God has provided a means that both satisfies His justice and allows us to enter into eternity with Him. That way is the Way of the Messiah Jesus. All pretty basic stuff isn't it.
Well we see in the bible that God himself declares little ones to be free from the knowledge of Good and Evil. So if the little ones are free of the knowledge of good and evil then they are in a "pre-fall state" and have no need for the atoning sacrifice of the Messiah Jesus. ok? Now lets go to the scriptures where God declares the little ones do not yet have the knowledge of good and evil.
Gods words in Red:
Deuteronomy 1
34 “And the LORD heard the sound of your words, and was angry, and took an oath, saying, 35 ‘Surely not one of these men of this evil generation shall see that good land of which I swore to give to your fathers, 36 except Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him and his children I am giving the land on which he walked, because he wholly followed the LORD.’ 37 The LORD was also angry with me for your sakes, saying, ‘Even you shall not go in there. 38 Joshua the son of Nun, who stands before you, he shall go in there. Encourage him, for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.
39 ‘Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I will give it, and they shall possess it. 40 But as for you, turn and take your journey into the wilderness by the Way of the Red Sea.’
This was when the jews had first reached the borders of the promised land and they rejected the report from the two good witnesses (spies) who entered the promised land find out what it was like. The Jews accepted the report from the false witnesses and refused to go into the land out of fear of the inhabitants. God decided to force the Jews to wander the desert for 40 years until the generation who had rebelled against Him had all died. But their little ones who on that day had no knowledge of good and evil where allowed to enter into the promised land after the 40 years was finished.
So the little ones are innocent inn the eyes of God and therefore have no sin and are acceptable to God in eternity.
Jesus said:
Matthew 18
10 “Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven. 11 For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost.
Interesting passage hey.
Romans 7
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.
Paul is clearly saying that he once was alive without the law this was when he was a little one. Once Paul came to the understanding of Good and Evil his carnal nature came to the fore.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
It's an interesting statement. The bible also teaches us that Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil and therefore couldn't have committed a sin by eating the fruit.
So what comes next? The minute someone without knowledge of good and evil sins they are no longer innocent in the eyes of god for committing that sin even though they do not know good and evil? If so, even kids are in serious trouble. They "sin", they just don't recognise what it is. Or are we to say that when they do gain knowledge of good and evil that they become accountable? If so then eating the fruit would not have been justified reason to curse Adam and Eve - as it wasn't until after doing so that they would have gained that knowledge.
"Originally posted by SetiAlpha6
I was thinking of the Christian justification for evil. Most Christians believe that evil must exist for freewill to exist. If that is true, then along with the removal of evil, in a New World, would also come the removal of the freewill to choose that evil. People in hell would be without the freewill to choose good and likewise people in heaven would be without the freewill to choose evil. In that Christian sense, it would seem that freewill would be annihilated"
Kendall-Seems to me that freewill might not be annihilated just that we might evolve or learn enough knowledge and in so not have a need or desire for evil, also a lot of the worlds evil,crime and suffering is caused by humans and in the future if we learn not to cause this and how to stop it a lot of the use of freewill to do evil things will be eliminated.
"Originally posted by SnakeLord
It's an interesting statement. The bible also teaches us that Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil and therefore couldn't have committed a sin by eating the fruit. "
Kendall-I am sure that the bible states that God told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
I was thinking of the Christian justification for evil. Most Christians believe that evil must exist for freewill to exist. If that is true, then along with the removal of evil, in a New World, would also come the removal of the freewill to choose that evil. People in hell would be without the freewill to choose good and likewise people in heaven would be without the freewill to choose evil. In that Christian sense, it would seem that freewill would be annihilated"
Kendall-Seems to me that freewill might not be annihilated just that we might evolve or learn enough knowledge and in so not have a need or desire for evil, also a lot of the worlds evil,crime and suffering is caused by humans and in the future if we learn not to cause this and how to stop it a lot of the use of freewill to do evil things will be eliminated.
"Originally posted by SnakeLord
It's an interesting statement. The bible also teaches us that Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil and therefore couldn't have committed a sin by eating the fruit. "
Kendall-I am sure that the bible states that God told Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Juan you need to provide evidence of your claims, I've seen many videos of hell,(horror movies) however this shit doesn't mean it's real and that such a place exist!
Do us a BIG favor, this is a science forum, positive claims require empirical evidence, if non is given then you go on the list as the rest of the delusional people we have around here!
The instant Adam and Eve obtained the knowledge of good and evil they where in a state of sin. Irrespective of weather the actual process of obtaining the knowledge was sin or not the outcome was the same, once they ate the fruit they came to the knowledge of Good and evil and they knew they where naked.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Certainly, and the snake told them he was lying and that they should eat it. With no knowledge of good or evil which of the two should they listen to?
Right. So the second any child gets to the stage where he has an understanding of what's good and evil, he's now in a state of sin and falls from that "innocence in gods eyes"? Are they perhaps guilty of sin, and punishable for it, even before they have an understanding of good and evil? I asked these questions already, an answer would be nice.