The Mormon Jesus vs. The Gospel Jesus?

Carcano said:
Not according to the folks who actually wrote the Torah, who knew of no Jesus (Yeshua), or the word Jehovah in fact...invented by English translators in 1671.

Or even of hell or the devil for that matter.

What we see here is a chronological 'piling up' of concepts superimposed unto previous scripture in an attempt to make them appear eternal.
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True, the name "Jehovah" wasn't mentioned by the Jews in reading (they substituted the word "Adonai" instead, one of the other names of God). It was probably pronounced "Yahveh" and in the KJV the name is generally denoted as "LORD" or "GOD" in small caps.

We know from John 8:58 that Jesus considered Himself to be the great "I AM" of the Old Testament:

John 8:57-58
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

The footnote to verse 58 says: "The term I AM used here in the Greek is identical with the Septuagint usage in Ex. 3:14 which identifies Jehovah. (Cp. also John 4:26.)"
 
Ok, so how do the Mormons account for the fact that these fundmentally important beliefs are somehow completely absent from the old testament?
 
Carcano said:
Ok, so how do the Mormons account for the fact that these fundmentally important beliefs are somehow completely absent from the old testament?
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Which "fundamentally important beliefs" are you talking about, specifically?
 
Carcano said:
That the world was created by Jesus, instead of their Yahweh deity.
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Jesus *is* Yahweh, which he told the Jews of His day. It's not His fault if they didn't believe Him.

Every prophet who ever lived testified of Christ, according to LDS belief. We don't have a complete canon for Old Testament times (there are many books which are referred to in the OT but which aren't available to us). If we had all the writings of all the OT prophets, we would plainly see that Jesus was the promised Messiah.
 
Marlin said:
We don't have a complete canon for Old Testament times (there are many books which are referred to in the OT but which aren't available to us). If we had all the writings of all the OT prophets, we would plainly see that Jesus was the promised Messiah.
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Oh ok, so the Mormon strategy for coping with the fact there is no mention of Mormon beliefs in the old testament is to say that there must be *missing* books of the Torah patriarchs that do support your views.

Otherwise, the Mormon approach would amount to coming across a written description of an elephant...and then insisting
what it REALLY describes is a kangaroo! :bugeye:
 
Whatever, believe what you want, but LDS belief is biblical. It may not be your interpretation of the Bible, but it is ours and we believe that the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, supports our interpretation.

Edited to add:
And we do have scriptural books, the Book of Abraham and the Book of Moses, which are by the patriarchs and which support our beliefs.
 
With all due respect, Carcano you are funny. You make me laugh. The Old Testament does not tell everything. It speaks of a Messiah, but does not put a lot of flesh on it. The New Testament puts more flesh on the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon puts more flesh on the New Testiment.
As to missing books of the Old Testament, it is largely not releveant. I do not know that there are any, nor have I heard any rumors of such. The Old Testament is a collection of oral stories and traditions put to text in Alexandria on the orders of a pagean prince, Alexander the Great. And according to scholars many of these stories were taken from pagean religons...believe as you will.
 
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joepistole said:
The Old Testament does not tell everything. It speaks of a Messiah, but does not put a lot of flesh on it. The New Testament puts more flesh on the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon puts more flesh on the New Testiment.
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You mean the old testament does not tell everything you WANT to hear.

As we've seen, its not really a matter of filling in empty spaces but of changing the most fundamental principles of ancient scripture to suit later developments in religious ideology.

Not putting flesh on bones, but re-arranging them to create a whole new skeleton.

This is instructive in demonstrating the extent to which the human psyche can be programmed by childhood conditioning into an idealogical stranglehold...that not even the most basic rational observations can break.
 
Marlin said:
How very insulting.
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Dont be insulted Marlin.

Be ashamed...you'll find it far more constructive.

Better yet...educate yourself, instead of memorizing and reciting whatever you heard from the authority figures of your youth. :)
 
Carcano, you know nothing about me, yet you assume I'm ignorant and uneducated because I believe in Mormonism. Your assumptions and quick judgments speak volumes about you. And not in a good way.
 
The Jesus of the Muslims is the Jesus of the Christians. The problem is not with the message, it is how people intrepret the message. Where you see sweeping changes and rewriting of history, I see fulfillment, further exposure, further knowledge, further light. In the all of the western religions there are also mystery cults. Jesus himself spoke of mysteries. Those who are of good heart and and with desire can come to know these mysteries. You and others get lost because you cannot see the trees for the forrest. Now I say this not to hurt you, but to help you understand...maybe you should take another look with an open heart. Please dont be misled by the transgressions of man, as there are plenty!
 
joepistole said:
I think you are sadly and grossly missinformed about the Latter Day Saints. If you take the time to go to their worship services, they dont talk about Smith much.
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Perhaps because he was a liar, a conman, well known to the local Police in NYC, his deciphering of Egyptian hieroglyphs proven to have been a lie, he died in a hail of gunfire, and returned fire (not showing christian forgiveness and turning the other cheek, forgiving the crowd because they knew not what they they were doing), and then the 'church' was subverted by Brigham Young, despite Smith dictating that authority should pass down his bloodline.

And just like David Koresh, Smith liked to rock out with his cock out, and practised polygamy. What is it about these new wave religious leaders that makes them act like rockstars and treat followers like groupies? Oh yeah, power corrupts, and spirituality took 2nd place when it came to getting his leg over.
 
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