The Holy Quran

[Dywyddyr]

you just took something out of context and claimed it has no insight and you didnt even post it in full and here it is in full.
Literal meaning: He got neither the berries of Sham nor the grapes of Yemen.
Use: Said to a greedy person who lost every thing. "

What particular "insight" is given?
How does this relate to "greed"?
Can you show that this is novel?
Does it pre-date any similar phrase?
Oh, and I'd like to point out that as given it would actually be said OF "someone that lost everything", not TO that person.

And yes, my apologies:
I used the wrong quote.

Literal: Avoid the company of a liar. And if you can't avoid him, don't believe him.




Don't eat your bread on someone else's table.

لا تسقط من كفه خردلة
Literal meaning: He doesn't drop a mustard.[1]

Notice the large gap?
(That's the one I meant to pick up, somehow selected the wrong portion of your quote and ran with that).
There are many times I've eaten my bread on (at, actually) someone else's table.
What is this intended to convey?
And could you explain the final line: he doesn't drop a mustard.
WTF is that supposed to mean?

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

What particular "insight" is given?
How does this relate to "greed"?
Can you show that this is novel?
Does it pre-date any similar phrase?
Oh, and I'd like to point out that as given it would actually be said OF "someone that lost everything", not TO that person.

And yes, my apologies:
I used the wrong quote.

Notice the large gap?
(That's the one I meant to pick up, somehow selected the wrong portion of your quote and ran with that).
There are many times I've eaten my bread on (at, actually) someone else's table.
What is this intended to convey?
And could you explain the final line: he doesn't drop a mustard.
WTF is that supposed to mean?

Oh, thank you for clearing up that I appreciate it, Yes that was down to maybe my Copy and paste ability, down to my error. I was trying not to have too much of the same scipture in dreary paragraphs. I was switching it up taking random exerpts from here-and-there to give maybe a more balenced view of the different type of things that are discussedand taughtin the Quran as a whole.


I don't doubt you can find simular proverbs all around the world frommany regions and cultures, you are correct alot of things said int he quran have been said before (In china, Tibet, Europe, Middle east, India etc) Many messengers and prophets have come in every land on earth giving teachings of understanding to people. I have studied Chinese proverbs to an obsessive degree and I can see many a resemblance.



The things you focused on are simple proverbs, they are said as common phrases to remind of wrong doing and advice, Like how the chinese will have proverbs that are related to tales, legends and storys that tell of the deeper meaning. Sure'ly you can see how it relates to greed and how the others relate als, he was not rewarded with the harvestsof shamor yeman grapes and berries. those are justblatant ones no metaphor or riddle intended.

"The Valley of Grapes"


peace.

 

[Dywyddyr]

I don't doubt you can find simular proverbs all around the world frommany regions and cultures, you are correct alot of things said int he quran have been said before (In china, Tibet, Europe, Middle east, India etc)

So you admit that they don't relate to Michael's request?

Does the Qur'an proffer any novel and enlightening reflection on the human condition that has not been stated elsewhere before?

Sure'ly you can see how it relates to greed and how the others relate als, he was not rewarded with the harvestsof shamor yeman grapes and berries.

Since it was given with zero context the background to that quote could have been anything, maybe a story of how an honest man was tricked out getting things for which he'd already paid by con artists.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

So you admit that they don't relate to Michael's request?



Since it was given with zero context the background to that quote could have been anything, maybe a story of how an honest man was tricked out getting things for which he'd already paid by con artists.

Michae lhad a number of requests, philosophical insight and wisdom were 2. This is the very reason why I said to fully comprehend the proverbs and Hadith you need knowledge of the Surahs.

Think of it this way, When you are giving short proverbs and pearlsof wisdom in parables about chinese philosophy, your audience can gain insight fromthem assolo pieces. But to truly understand ones regarding "The Way" one would be wise to Read the Dao De Jing as that is the source of many of the "out of context" proverbs.

 

[quinnsong]

Hadith Qudsi 24:

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said:
If Allah has loved a servant [of His] He calls Gabriel (on whom be peace) and says: I love So-and-so, therefore love him. He (the Prophet pbuh) said: So Gabriel loves him. Then he (Gabriel) calls out in heaven, saying: Allah loves So-and-so, therefore love him. And the inhabitants of heaven love him. He (the Prophet pbuh) said: Then acceptance is established for him on earth. And if Allah has abhorred a servant [of His], He calls Gabriel and says: I abhor So-and-so, therefore abhor him. So Gabriel abhors him. Then Gabriel calls out to the inhabitants of heaven: Allah abhors So-and-so, therefore abhor him. He (the Prophet pbuh) said: So they abhor him, and abhorrence is established for him on earth.

Really? So this is why we love or hate?

 

[Dywyddyr]

Michae lhad a number of requests, philosophical insight and wisdom were 2.

So you ignored the request for novel because...?
Help me out here.
I would put it you though that merely repeating "philosophical insight and wisdom" is little more than parroting, which, in general, requires nor particularly displays either.

This is the very reason why I said to fully comprehend the proverbs and Hadith you need knowledge of the Surahs.

So the individual quotes were, by themselves, meaningless?

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Hadith Qudsi 24:

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said:
If Allah has loved a servant [of His] He calls Gabriel (on whom be peace) and says: I love So-and-so, therefore love him. He (the Prophet pbuh) said: So Gabriel loves him. Then he (Gabriel) calls out in heaven, saying: Allah loves So-and-so, therefore love him. And the inhabitants of heaven love him. He (the Prophet pbuh) said: Then acceptance is established for him on earth. And if Allah has abhorred a servant [of His], He calls Gabriel and says: I abhor So-and-so, therefore abhor him. So Gabriel abhors him. Then Gabriel calls out to the inhabitants of heaven: Allah abhors So-and-so, therefore abhor him. He (the Prophet pbuh) said: So they abhor him, and abhorrence is established for him on earth.

Really? So this is why we love or hate?

Not exactly, Love is a seal that most animals feel or express in some way as a natural instinct to promote unity and reproductions. The type of Love/Hate I think you are refering to is maybe on a social level between peers.

Some people seem more blessed, some more cursed it causes jelousy and envy, that causes hatred and violence and rude-ness. So maybe in some ways what your thinking is correct, I have not honestly every sat down and pondered this hadith with that particular question in mind, it is interesting though.

What are your thoughts on it relating to overall love and hate mong people on earth?.


Salam

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

So you ignored the request for novel because...?
Help me out here.
I would put it you though that merely repeating "philosophical insight and wisdom" is little more than parroting, which, in general, requires nor particularly displays either.


So the individual quotes were, by themselves, meaningless?

YesI ignored them in the same way you pick apart peoples posts and choose what to ignore and which to address.

Not happy with what you do to others being done to you and your peers? Treat your neighbors how you want to be treated.

 

[Dywyddyr]

You just get funnier.
No, really you do.

But, while I'm here, can you actually reply to any of my questions or points?

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

You just get funnier.
No, really you do.

But, while I'm here, can you actually reply to any of my questions or points?

Can you reply to any of my points?, and unlike you I don't laugh at another persons miss-understanding or "Failure" I try to help them and say a prayer for them to be guided in the right path.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Can you reply to any of my points?

Which ones?
I don't deny there's wisdom in the Quran. But, so far, that wisdom also appears in Aesop's Fables and numerous other books and texts. In fact much of it is folk wisdom.
Big deal.

and unlike you I don't laugh at another persons miss-understanding or "Failure"

And once again you miss the point. Never mind.

say a prayer for them to be guided in the right path.

Oh yeah. Because prayer is so helpful.
Does it make you feel better?

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Which ones?
I don't deny there's wisdom in the Quran. But, so far, that wisdom also appears in Aesop's Fables and numerous other books and texts. In fact much of it is folk wisdom.
Big deal.


And once again you miss the point. Never mind.


Oh yeah. Because prayer is so helpful.
Does it make you feel better?

I have asked you many things in the past and you pick peoples posts apart, completely being diss-honest asan attempt to diss-credit and make them look silly.

I don't pray for people for my own benefit I do it to let god know I think you deserve a mercy and guide, I do it so maybe he will send his angels to you and hopefully you can feel their presence.

 

[Dywyddyr]

I have asked you many things in the past

If you'd care to point out which I have failed to respond to I'll do so now.

and you pick peoples posts apart

Correct.

being diss-honest asan attempt to diss-credit and make them look silly.

Please show where I have been dishonest AT ALL. Or retract the statement.
And no, yet again you ascribe false motives to me.

I don't pray for people for my own benefit I do it to let god know I think you deserve a mercy and guide, I do it so maybe he will send his angels to you and hopefully you can feel their presence.

What god? What angels?
Since neither can be shown to exist and prayer has been shown to have no effect how can praying have any benefit in this case other than your own self-satisfaction?

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

If you'd care to point out which I have failed to respond to I'll do so now.


Correct.


Please show where I have been dishonest AT ALL. Or retract the statement.
And no, yet again you ascribe false motives to me.


What god? What angels?
Since neither can be shown to exist and prayer has been shown to have no effect how can praying have any benefit in this case other than your own self-satisfaction?

Ok Geoff, yeah your an "honestperson" you don't try to diss-creditpeople and make them look silly, you have never been diss-honest in your debating skills.


What god what angels?, if you think it's all lies why are you even debating it.

 

[quinnsong]

Not exactly, Love is a seal that most animals feel or express in some way as a natural instinct to promote unity and reproductions. The type of Love/Hate I think you are refering to is maybe on a social level between peers.

Some people seem more blessed, some more cursed it causes jelousy and envy, that causes hatred and violence and rude-ness. So maybe in some ways what your thinking is correct, I have not honestly every sat down and pondered this hadith with that particular question in mind, it is interesting though.

What are your thoughts on it relating to overall love and hate mong people on earth?.


Salam

Why Does your god hate?

 

[Dywyddyr]

Ok Geoff

Just for reference I'm not Geoff.

yeah your an "honestperson" you don't try to diss-creditpeople and make them look silly, you have never been diss-honest in your debating skills.

Thankyou.

What god what angels?, if you think it's all lies why are you even debating it.

One more time. This is a science forum. Claims are made: we (I) are looking for support for these claims. Especially when these claims are then used as an excuse to tell us how to live and behave.

 

[NMSquirrel]

Then don't ask questions you know the answer to.

reasonable request.

You are not here to learn of the quran or it's teachings or to discuss the philosophical meanings of the surahs and ethical meanings of the Hadiths,

this is your challenge chi, to pull out the relevant questions from the bull, and ignore the bull..

I would like to remind you that you still have not read the Quran in full.

assume this chi,this is why the questions sound like bull to you.

You are here to attack God and attack the quran not to learn or understand it's meanings. Lose the arrogance or I will not take much effort in replying to you once again michael.

rephrase chi:
I know most ppl do not understand the quran, and are limited by understandings gained by 'word of mouth', it would be appreciated if you could listen to someone who has studied the quran and has lived in its understandings.
doesn't this say the same thing you just said?
except without the demand to 'lose the arrogance'

I would put it you though that merely repeating "philosophical insight and wisdom" is little more than parroting, which, in general, requires nor particularly displays either.

dyw..give him a break,especially when he does try to post on topic, the first part of that lengthy post was informative,(the rest was just overload..)
he is trying, give him credit for that,
IOW same advice i give him, this is your challenge dyw, to pull out the relevant data from the bull, and ignore the bull..

 

[GeoffP]

Just for reference I'm not Geoff.

Stop lying, Geoff.

 

[Dywyddyr]

IOW same advice i give him, this is your challenge dyw, to pull out the relevant data from the bull, and ignore the bull..

There was no "relevant data" since the request was for NOVEL insights.

 

[GeoffP]

Not to play Devil's Advocate...well, ok, I guess that's what I'm doing...how about as a novel way of expressing a concept? Actually, I'm not really sure what Chi is arguing anyway. Special knowledge?