The Ego of the Atheist

[S.A.M.]

SAM:
There are no atheist societies.

Except for the self defined ones, like theocracies; if they are not all atheist, its not for lack of trying. Really really hard. Ignoring the atrocities of atheists does not make them disappear.

Laws aren't based on things being unnatural. They are based on things being morally wrong.

Morally good does not equate to "natural" or "unnatural". That is the [enc]Appeal to nature[/enc] fallacy

Laws are based on ideas of right or wrong. Laws in all societies have risen from religion. If gay marriage is illegal, its because the religion in that society says so, not from any appeal to nature.

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

1. The evidence of atheist societies is like a holocaust ad nauseum compared to any theocracy on earth

...
Holocaust ad nauseam that can relate to all the murder,torture persecution in the name of religion a lot more easier than it relates to atheism, a few years of persection in an atheist state does not compare to the 2,000 years of violence,persecution etc in the name of what is good and holy that the world has seen

 

[Enmos]

No, hence the faith in replicates and standard errors.

Huh ? I don't get it.

 

[Enmos]

Laws are based on ideas of right or wrong. Laws in all societies have risen from religion. If gay marriage is illegal, its because the religion in that society says so, not from any appeal to nature.

This is simply not true.
Laws are made to serve the people. There are laws that blatantly contradict religion.
Governments make the rules according to the people's wants and benefits.
That a lot of them seem borrowed from religion is because religion made the rules the same way in the past.

 

[ronan]

Bananas are as real as anything else. Don't try to make something out of that, that it is not. You are spouting metaphysical BS. Please stop.

you can also believe in the existence of bananas, that is another issue

You are the one saying that:

Do you believe in a reality behind your perception?

Yes. To think otherwise smacks of metaphysical bullshit.

that was the only point: you believe in the existence of something behind your perception and that looks like a theist belief

That's why then I ask (but you seem to qvoid the question):

do you think that the reality behind your perception is unconscious?

this unconsciousness of reality could thus be the properties that makes atheist different than theist (knowing that you consider yourself an atheist):

theist: belief in a conscious god
atheist: belief in an unconscious god (unconscious reality by using the "correct" word if the distinction is agreed)

Would you agree?

Not at all. Many gods, implying many instances of the exact definition.

Hum hum, please ask the definition of god to many who consider themselves theists, they would give you a different definition.
if you call it their definition, instances of the same definiton, please give the definition of god you seem to know

 

[nova900]

Well the simple message is be good to one another and believe in an all powerful God maker of heaven and earth. I don;t need to know the bible inside out to know that much.

Unfortunately the "simple message" is wrapped up in varying idealogies that differ from one another and much myth in scripture is taken as literal fact when it is not. Usually I see the ego factor go hand in hand with religous people who believe their version is literal and others not and the ego intensifies depending on how literal they think it is.
It's not the simple message of love and selflesness that most of them want to stress,the message that can bind many faiths together,it's the often closed minded idealogy and a very confrontational image of God that they want to preach to others.It becomes a "my God who can become your God(but only if you believe in the specifics of the religion in question)They want God to be very confrontational and just will not accept otherwise.

I have been on the receiving end of hellfire wrath speeches from many conservative types by just suggesting that God is universal and not as dogmatic and close minded as they believe. It actually seems to incur more of a response than if I was a hard core atheist.
Of course, in fairness the ego problem is not restricted to believers and people in general with a closed mind that is very rigid seem to be more subseptible to it.

 

[S.A.M.]

This is simply not true.
Laws are made to serve the people. There are laws that blatantly contradict religion.
Governments make the rules according to the people's wants and benefits.
That a lot of them seem borrowed from religion is because religion made the rules the same way in the past.

Thats because religious people have redefined their religion. But go to any society and look at where their laws come from.

 

[Enmos]

lol

 

[S.A.M.]

In a country with a majority of one religion, if they wanted their scriptures to be law, they would be. In fact are. In the most primitive tribes, they have a deity and a tribal leader and laws are based on what the tribal leader decides the deity wants. If its a human sacrifice, so be it. Are you aware of any primitive system that evolved without a deity or a spiritual adviser to the leader?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Thats because religious people have redefined their religion. But go to any society and look at where their laws come from.

Religion would like to take credit for all the good laws out there. No ego stroking there. :shrug:

 

[S.A.M.]

Religion would like to take credit for all the good laws out there. No ego stroking there. :shrug:

Whats a good law?

If a majority of Christians decide prostitution, homosexuality and profaning the sacred no longer merits a death sentence, is that a good law? Or a bad one? For whom?

 

[pharaohmoan]

Of course, but that doesn't prove it's real.
Also, why didn't I get any feedback from having faith ?

I don't know Enmos but what I have learnt so far is that once you pursue a belief that is somewhat paranormal in nature ie delves into the unknown then if lucky you will get feedback. For example I've been of the opinion for some time that we can communicate with nature so through trial and error I've tried it out and got results. Also by practicing tai chi I've learnt a lot about the movement of chi energy which definitly connects to a bigger picture which I've had feedback from. Unfortunatly words seem to fail me in describing some of the connections I've experienced, the best way I can describe it is that when 'the moment' hits you you'll experience a moment of timelessness which feels transcendental.

This excert from the film waking life describes some of what I'm trying to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwYXcZOiLeM&feature=related

The one thing I hate about religious zealots is that they think spirituality is for the religious only. Quit trying to humanize the unknown by giving it a name.

OK I'm prepared to accept that there are spiritual atheists but in my opinion spirituality will/should eventually lead to an awareness of something greater.

Unfortunately the "simple message" is wrapped up in varying idealogies that differ from one another and much myth in scripture is taken as literal fact when it is not. Usually I see the ego factor go hand in hand with religous people who believe their version is literal and others not and the ego intensifies depending on how literal they think it is.
It's not the simple message of love and selflesness that most of them want to stress,the message that can bind many faiths together,it's the often closed minded idealogy and a very confrontational image of God that they want to preach to others.It becomes a "my God who can become your God(but only if you believe in the specifics of the religion in question)They want God to be very confrontational and just will not accept otherwise.

I have been on the receiving end of hellfire wrath speeches from many conservative types by just suggesting that God is universal and not as dogmatic and close minded as they believe. It actually seems to incur more of a response than if I was a hard core atheist.
Of course, in fairness the ego problem is not restricted to believers and people in general with a closed mind that is very rigid seem to be more subseptible to it.

Good point

 

[S.A.M.]

...
Holocaust ad nauseam that can relate to all the murder,torture persecution in the name of religion a lot more easier than it relates to atheism, a few years of persection in an atheist state does not compare to the 2,000 years of violence,persecution etc in the name of what is good and holy that the world has seen

Depends on how you see it. The death toll under Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot beat any theocratic record. 3 atheists have done more damage than many many theists put together.

You won't find these guys agreeing with you for instance:

By that toll alone, I think we could not take more than a few years of atheism at a time, without annihilating the human species.

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

Depends on how you see it. The death toll under Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot beat any theocratic record. 3 atheists have done more damage than many many theists put together.

By that toll alone, I think we could not take more than a few years of atheism at a time, without annihilating the human species.

Hitler for one was not an atheist he was raised a catholic and was a religious man who advocated christianity reinventing Jesus as a fighter against the Jews....so the Holocaust was for religious/theist purposes not Atheist :bugeye:

and stalin was sent to study to be a priest..............so that's a load of crap
it is not Atheism which caused the attrocities as you claim but theism...:bugeye:

 

[S.A.M.]

Hitler for one was not an atheist he was raised a catholic and was a religious man who advocated christianity reinventing Jesus as a fighter against the Jews....so the Holocaust was for religious/theist purposes not Atheist :bugeye:

and stalin was sent to study to be a priest..............so that's a load of crap
it is not Atheism which caused the attrocities as you claim but theism...:bugeye:

So what? Hitler in private conversations considered Christianity to be the biggest evil there is and Stalin murdered the priests of the Catholic church. Richard Dawkins went to a Christian school. Does that mean he is not an atheist?

 

[Enmos]

So what? Hitler in private conversations considered Christianity to be the biggest evil there is and Stalin murdered the priests of the Catholic church. Richard Dawkins went to a Christian school. Does that mean he is not an atheist?

Their programming malfunctioned ?

 

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

So what? Hitler in private conversations considered Christianity to be the biggest evil there is and Stalin murdered the priests of the Catholic church. Richard Dawkins went to a Christian school. Does that mean he is not an atheist?

err so Atheism was not responsible for these attrocities..........

Mao was a buddist..............and I don't know enough about pol pot to comment.........

Hitler was a devout believer in Jesus christ..........:bugeye: and what he called positive christianity against the Jews 'as they killed the christian messiah'
Dawkins has not commited crimes against humanity........

It is theism not atheism that has shown savagry and violence throughout history.

do you have evidence of hitlers private conversations from any neutral source.............?

 

[S.A.M.]

err so Atheism was not responsible for these attrocities..........

Mao was a buddist..............and I don't know enough about pol pot to comment.........

Hitler was a devout believer in Jesus christ..........:bugeye: and what he called positive christianity against the Jews @as they killed the christian messiah'
Dawkins has not commited crimes against humanity........

It is theism not atheism that has shown savagry and violence throughout history.

So the fact that these people self defined themselves as atheist is irrelevant? Thats your "rational" argument?

 

[Enmos]

So the fact that these people self defined themselves as atheist is irrelevant? Thats your "rational" argument?

Where is your evidence ?

 

[S.A.M.]

Their programming malfunctioned ?

Not at all, they wanted everyone to not be delusional, just like themselves. Its a trend you find in many atheists.