The, differences ,between ,Christianity and Islam

[Big Chiller]

Why do you suppose you have a need to refer to a God as a "He"? Why not a She? The Japanese refer to God as a She. And they give "Her" plenty of respect. Hindu have female avatars of God. Why do you suppose your God is a represented in your mind as a "He"?

I try not to address any images in my mind as God and if I do I say in my mind God is greater.

Wouldn't it be more logical to say "It"?

No, it's not necessarily logical at all.

 

[Big Chiller]

Corpus, not corpse, Chill. There's a difference.

Ah so this is a take on the Quran.

And what exactly is so hard about this? Is your argument that God is "too big" to fit his personality into a human body? Again, this doesn't seem a reasonable argument for an omnipotent being. You and scifes seem to be putting limitations on God here for the sake of theological argument against a belief you don't like.

You getting the impression God is "too big" is telling me we're not on the same page, why would you think being infinite means to have a size rather it makes sense that something with size isn't God. Having size or shape means to be limited. Why should God have a personality He creates our personalities so He must not have personality as it's created.

If you like. We simply happen to recognize the three major aspects that are apparent to our faith. As for denying God's capabilities: I hate to keep harping on this point, but this is exactly what scifes' argument comes down to: my god is immeasurably powerful and unknowable, but this is somehitng I know He just wouldn't or couldn't do. Best solution in this case: leave the Triune perspective alone on the measure of "reasonability", as this isn't a mortal, natural being we're discussing here. My view is this: I leave everyone's theology to themselves, so long as it's humanitarianally ethical and doesn't interfere with me or mine.

God being immeasurably powerful sounds fitting for God only if meant literally. Is scifes really saying there are things that God can't do? No, he's pointing out absurdities. If the being was mortal or created then I wouldn't have so much problem with it being triune.

(And one can't morally claim that the religious beliefs of others "harm" one unless they actually do. I get the drift from some of the theists on the forum that they equate such things as apostacy with the dead of a believer, which was bizarre.)

Do you really think I'm worried about being harmed by your beliefs or lack thereof or sharing theistic information with you?

 

[Michael]

No, it's not necessarily logical at all.

Why do you suppose it's more logical to refer to God as a man? Does God have a penis? Can you name ANY male attributes that God has?

 

[GeoffP]

Ah so this is a take on the Quran.

?? Nooo....

You getting the impression God is "too big" is telling me we're not on the same page, why would you think being infinite means to have a size rather it makes sense that something with size isn't God.

Actually, it was you that opined that God was too large to fit into a human vessel, being everywhere; clearly this isn't physical size, but omnipresence. Even so, I don't see the conflict.

Having size or shape means to be limited. Why should God have a personality He creates our personalities so He must not have personality as it's created.

Why not? Most Abrahamic religions ascribe some kind of personality to God.

God being immeasurably powerful sounds fitting for God only if meant literally. Is scifes really saying there are things that God can't do? No, he's pointing out absurdities.

So then why put limits on God because you disagree with the physiological idea?

If the being was mortal or created then I wouldn't have so much problem with it being triune.

Why? You seem to be of the belief that God is, indeed, omnipotent: if so, why would He be in any way inconvenienced by occupying a mortal form? Where's the logical conflict possible in a being that is outside naturalistic logic?

Do you really think I'm worried about being harmed by your beliefs or lack thereof or sharing theistic information with you?

Just a statement on my beliefs about the acceptability of belief, and the limits of expression. scifes seemed to equate conversion with death, of all things, earlier.

 

[scifes]

I think you mean "disappointing". No matter.

that would be you, I, am disappointED.

What's wrong with the answer? What's half of infinity? Care to answer any of my other questions? They're right there. Don't retreat.


You should put away the crack before it puts you away. I gave you an answer. If you don't like it, tell me why it's wrong. Or answer any of my other questions. Even one.

um, it's not an answer?
can god create a rock that is too heavy for him to carry is eithered answered by yes he can,and so a rock that he can't carry does exist..or he no, he can't bring it into existence.
your sentence that "god can create all rocks but he can carry them all" isn't exactly an answer to my specific question, it's actually running away from the question.

as for half of infinity, well that's infinity. what're your other questions?

 

[scifes]

What does omnipotent mean?

Christians believe God died in filth on the cross. As a human he would have taken a crap (I'm guessing "He" probably even jerked off - when in Rome :shrug.

that is where christianity and islam differ, you hear G?

So, you say that God can not learn. Well then, as you know so much about God's abilities, you know what God can and what God can not do. It's almost as if God is made up in your mind scifes, and what you're doing is just making up "His" attributes as you go along. Just as any author creates the abilities of their literary creations (such as a "Q" or a "Jedi"). It's not that you have any evidence of what God can and can not do, you just "know" it. Like a child just "knows" what their invisible friend likes and doesn't like.

so because i answered your question that means god is made up in my head?
has your brain stopped growing when you were in preschool? what kind of childish argument is that?

I wonder: Does your God think scifes?
hmmm..i think i'll say "i don't know".
but let me ask you a question in return michael, do animals think?

now, whatever your answer is, god's "thought process" to ours is like animals' thought process -if they can think- to ours.

if you don't like "thought process" replace it with "conscience", ok?

** You should visit the StarWars -vs- StarTreq thread. People there are just as sure about the power of the DeathStar as YOU are about your God! hahaha... too funny

hahaha, very funny, hahaha, let's laugh some more, hahaha.

 

[GeoffP]

that would be you, I, am disappointED.

Pleased to meet you, Ed.

um, it's not an answer?

Like, it totally is, dood.

can god create a rock that is too heavy for him to carry is eithered answered by yes he can,and so a rock that he can't carry does exist..or he no, he can't bring it into existence.
your sentence that "god can create all rocks but he can carry them all" isn't exactly an answer to my specific question, it's actually running away from the question.

Not at all: review the meaning of infinite and omnipotent.

as for half of infinity, well that's infinity. what're your other questions?

Good. As infinity is not troubled by simple division, neither is an infinite god troubled by simple division. There are no "demigods" in this faith.

For other questions, see my posts above.

 

[Big Chiller]

Why do you suppose it's more logical to refer to God as a man? Does God have a penis? Can you name ANY male attributes that God has?

How we address Him is not necessarily a question of logic.

 

[Michael]

that is where christianity and islam differ, you hear G?

That's one area.

I wonder: Does your God think scifes?
hmmm..i think i'll say "i don't know".
but let me ask you a question in return michael, do animals think?

You don't know if God thinks? Fair enough. let me see if I have this correct: You know for a fact that God can not learn, but you're not sure if She thinks. Well, if She can't learn, that seem to suggest to me that She can not think. Why think about something if there's nothing to think about?

You mean do other animals think? Why yes they do think scifes. There's some very interesting scientific data on the different way's dogs and wolves, chimpanzees and apes think.

now, whatever your answer is, god's "thought process" to ours is like animals' thought process -if they can think- to ours.

This contradicts your first statement - the one where you say you didn't know if God thinks. Now you're saying She thinks. You almost sound like you're talking about something you just made up. As if your God is really just like "Q" or "Harry Potter" and you're making is up as you go along. Like a child talking about characteristics of his Invisible Friend.


So God, She thinks or she doesn't think?


Secondly, this comparison has no bases. You have nothing to measure in terms of God. We, on the other hand, can easily see that even octopus (which diverged a long time ago, has nine "brains" and independently evolved eyes) still utilizes a nervous system very similar to ours. Given another 100 million years they may even be as intelligent as we are. See the difference?

hahaha, very funny, hahaha, let's laugh some more, hahaha.

The idea of adults sitting around arguing about how powerful "Q" or "Harry Potter" is, and being dead serious about it, is funny to me. Thank the Gods they haven't started killing one another over these squabbles - like Christians and Muslims.



RE: OP Differences between Muslims and Christians. It really depends on your time frame. In the past some "Christians" didn't believe in the Trinity and didn't think Jesus was God-incarnate. These Christians probably evolved into what eventually became known as Muslims. Which is why you'll find 80+ percent of the Qur'an is the Bible.

 

[Michael]

How we address Him is not necessarily a question of logic.

Oh, the illogical nature of Islam and Christianity is quite evident.

 

[scifes]

Good. As infinity is not troubled by simple division, neither is an infinite god troubled by simple division. There are no "demigods" in this faith.

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=99856
when you devide infinity it doesn't stay the "same".

 

[GeoffP]

But still effectively infinite.

Now, are you prepared to answer any of my other questions back at your assertions?

 

[Big Chiller]

The infinity that is actually used mathematically really is just an indefinite number not actual infinity dividing actual infinity is an absurdity.

 

[GeoffP]

Of course. And God as we describe Him is an indefinite conceptualization of an anaturalistic being. It makes no more logical sense to pretend that an anaturalistic, omnipotent being would be somehow unable or unwilling to place part of his personality in a human carrier than it does to question His motives during any process of His existence, including hardening nations' hearts, magical camel rides and sorcerous imams down wells.

 

[scifes]

the fact would still remain that the description or characteristics given by christians to god are self contradictory, as in they don't make sense. the attributes are inconsistent.

 

[GeoffP]

the fact would still remain that the description or characteristics given by christians to god are self contradictory, as in they don't make sense. the attributes are inconsistent.

Describe them. How many of the 99 attributes given to Allah by Islam are consistent? There are fare more inconsistencies in the Islamic description, since you take this approach. How much more illogical is your faith.

 

[Big Chiller]

Actually, it was you that opined that God was too large to fit into a human vessel, being everywhere; clearly this isn't physical size, but omnipresence. Even so, I don't see the conflict.

Actually I didn't opine that God was too large to fit in a human vessel nor did I imply that, and omnipresesnce is physical size because the universe is omnipresence and if God is to be omnipresent then He would be the size and shape of the universe and that's a limitation. God is infinite He being contained in any sense is an absurdity.

Why not? Most Abrahamic religions ascribe some kind of personality to God.

A personality is created therefore limited.

So then why put limits on God because you disagree with the physiological idea?

I don't put limits on God I just realize that being physiological is limited and God is infinite and God being physiological is contradictory.

Why? You seem to be of the belief that God is, indeed, omnipotent: if so, why would He be in any way inconvenienced by occupying a mortal form? Where's the logical conflict possible in a being that is outside naturalistic logic?

God occupying a mortal form is sheer contradiction for instance God is infinite and unchanging because changing involves having a beginning and that's what a mortal form is. God is outside of naturalistic logic because it's not sheer logic, sheer logic isn't something to be out of.

 

[scifes]

Describe them.

God occupying a mortal form is sheer contradiction for instance God is infinite and unchanging because changing involves having a beginning and that's what a mortal form is. God is outside of naturalistic logic because it's not sheer logic, sheer logic isn't something to be out of.

very good example and roundup of the whole case.
for god to be outside our logic we'd have to logicalize how he's out of our logic, but if we can't understand how he's out of our logic then......that's saying nothing[?].

How many of the 99 attributes given to Allah by Islam are consistent?

none:shrug:
they're mere sides to his perfectness, like all seeing and all hearing, you can't say those suggest two beings. most merciful and most vengeful are necessary for perfectness, a god who forgives all including the bad is unfair, and one who punishes all including the good is evil.
unlike a man who got killed and an immortal god, islam's attributes are not contradictory at all.

it's a very very simple fact geoffp, and one that's also very clear.

There are fare more inconsistencies in the Islamic description, since you take this approach. How much more illogical is your faith.

give me some.

 

[GeoffP]

Actually I didn't opine that God was too large to fit in a human vessel nor did I imply that, and omnipresesnce is physical size because the universe is omnipresence and if God is to be omnipresent then He would be the size and shape of the universe and that's a limitation. God is infinite He being contained in any sense is an absurdity.

So this is something He couldn't do, again?

A personality is created therefore limited.

So how can He have any Aspects, let alone 99 of them?

I don't put limits on God I just realize that being physiological is limited and God is infinite and God being physiological is contradictory.

So you put limits on God.

God occupying a mortal form is sheer contradiction for instance God is infinite and unchanging because changing involves having a beginning and that's what a mortal form is. God is outside of naturalistic logic because it's not sheer logic, sheer logic isn't something to be out of.

It certainly is.

very good example and roundup of the whole case.
for god to be outside our logic we'd have to logicalize how he's out of our logic, but if we can't understand how he's out of our logic then......that's saying nothing[?].

That certainly was saying nothing.

they're mere sides to his perfectness

How can a perfect, integrated being have sides? This makes no logical sense.

unlike a man who got killed and an immortal god, islam's attributes are not contradictory at all.

They're extremely contradictory: vengeful, forgiveful, abaser, exalter? Please. Christianity is surprisingly simple when you take the time to understand it, rather than dismissing it because of prejudice about it.

it's a very very simple fact geoffp, and one that's also very clear.

It's highly contradictory and deceptive.

give me some.

I did, above. There's no point pretending it's any different from the Christian model of forgiveness and punishment. Allah changes his mind all through the Quran. First it's each unto their own, then it's "kill the unbeliever". I mean, make up your mind.

 

[Michael]

RE: Differences ,between ,Christianity and Islam

At the heart of Christianity is forgiveness. You can take away ALL of the superstition (including Jesus, God and the Holy Ghost) and what you will have left is self-forgiveness. Whether looking into the sky and asking to be forgiven or looking in another person's eyes - either way. That is the heart of Christianity. Asking to be forgiven and having that feeling that you indeed have been forgiven - this is what "makes sense" about Christianity.

At the heart of Islam is pride. It's the pride you feel "knowing" there is only One Perfect Revelation (the Qur'an) and only One Last Prophet (who delivered this Perfect Revelation) and knowing that this came from the One and Only "True" God. The pride that comes when you think you know the truth, that you have the right answer - it's right here sitting in your lap, this is what "makes sense" about Islam.






The funny thing is, everything that makes a Muslim feel prideful a Christian can feel prideful about too ... only even more so. Jesus wasn't a mere Prophet, not only the Messiah, but was God. God. As in, God. The Bible wasn't a retelling of story to fix a few bits and peaces like the Qur'an (God could have picked really anyone to be a Prophet) but is instead the actual life of God on earth. That said, it's my feeling that because forgiveness is central psychologically and superior to feelings of pride, some Christians are able to eventually move past pride and gain an ounce of humility. Some even become atheists.