THANK GOD for the earthquake

[birch]

beyond that, one of the major tenets of the bible and of christ's teachings is that judgement amongst men is incorrect

heheh. let me explain this one to you. there is also scriptures to repudiate that or make that null and void.

the bible is a mixture of contradictions so that one can pick and choose what they want to do depending on the situation but represents itself as "without" contradictions. it's a divide and conquer strategy "against" non-christians. this is why the religion is corrupt, no matter if the person chooses to follow only certain teachings. why it's corrupt is if one is representing that religion (not to mention condoning it all) but not doing anything at all to change the doctrines but representing what they choose to be the real religion but NOT one of them wants to change any of these scriptures, denounce it as prejudicial, immoral etc. that makes those who profess to be christians dishonest when they pick and choose while they condone it all. it is essentially a front.

the old testament is like the wolf and the jesus of the new testament is like the sheep. this combined is what is used to draw people to it but really, it is because of the way the teachings are as well as the core doctrines (fundamental religion), essentially a wolf in sheep's clothing.

of course a christian will usually not judge another christian because they are usually of the same beliefs. but of course a christian is to go and convert others to their beliefs and religion. that is the antithesis of not judgeing. since the core doctrines will always trumps the various minor doctrines including 'nonjudgement of gentiles' doctrine, that doctrine is the nectar to draw but in fact the core values are judgemental of non-christians or non-christian beliefs.

again, it's just wolf in sheep's clothing. it's the wolves and not the sheep who are really the true christians. ironic but true.

 

[Lori_7]

Maybe she is not supposed to feel good about it, but what was the flood of Noah?

first of all i would like to say that i am not an anti-atheist.

secondly, in that scripture god apparently wiped out everyone except for one family who amongst the population were deemed to be the purest. in context with what it says was going on at that time (sons of god breeding with daughters of men) it kind of sounds like a matter of genetics. noah, for whatever reason, was willing and able to accomplish this for god. he built an ark for crying out loud, because god said to.

and finally, it's hard to feel anything about it except for true love for humanity, and an unwavering faith in god, that is very personal in nature and comes from the most intimate place. i can see what's wrong with the world. it's what's wrong with us. it has always been apparent to me that there is something seriously wrong with us. i've felt the suffering. i didn't always understand it. now i do, in a way. i just killed a thread talking about a time when i felt the disease inside of me like never before. that itch you can never scratch got so intense i wanted to rip my skin off...tear it to shreds. i could see it like a caricature on other people, like they were wearing it. everything seemed so cumbersome and perverted and wrong. so wrong. and it still does. for a while though, several years ago, it was as if for some reason i became unconditioned to it for a while. it was the hardest time of my life. during that time, i prayed for the annihilation of the human race.

i couldn't help it. listen, i see people in cages. i see it in their eyes. i bet i could see it in yours, and you in mine. we live a very fragile existence. swirling around in a universe full of forces that could obliterate us at any moment, on a planet in which we know that earthquakes and tsunamis and volcanos and polar shifts and astroids have wiped out everything, and yet here we are. that's how we got here, and i think it's silly to think that we're the final product, and that god (help us) is going to stop shaping us as god always has. i believe in a better existence and it is so different from what we have now. even if you don't believe in heaven or the afterlife, just considering the legacy we're leaving our children. i want something so much better. and we live in a world where our sin destroys us. i can't say i'm not satisfied with that; it seems right. it's just a shame is all, unless it leads us to a better place, which i believe that it will. it's really hard to feel, but it's worth it.

 

[Lori_7]

heheh. let me explain this one to you. there is also scriptures to repudiate that or make that null and void.

the bible is a mixture of contradictions so that one can pick and choose what they want to do depending on the situation. this is why the religion is corrupt, no matter if the person chooses to follow only certain teachings. why it's corrupt is if one is representing that religion (not to mention condoning it all) but not doing anything at all to change the doctrines but representing what they choose to be the real religion but NOT one of them wants to change any of these scriptures, denounce it as prejudicial, immoral etc. that makes those who profess to be christians dishonest when they pick and choose while they condone it all.

the old testament is like the wolf and the jesus of the new testament is like the sheep. this combined is what is used to draw people to it but really, it is because of the way the teachings are as well as the core doctrines (fundamental religion), essentially a wolf in sheep's clothing.

of course a christian will usually not judge another christian because they are usually of the same beliefs. but of course a christian is to go and convert others to their beliefs and religion. that is the antithesis of not judgeing.

again, it's just wolf in sheep's clothing. it's the wolves and not the sheep who are really the true christians. ironic but true.

religion is corrupt because men are corrupt, which is exactly what the bible says, and if you practiced discernment instead of being judgmental, which is also what the bible recommends, you would know that. it seems that you're not interested in discerning, but interested in feeding an agenda, like the woman in the videos.

 

[spidergoat]

Is the Bible also corrupt? Because it is the work of men?

Regardless of the ultimate purpose of killing everyone but Noah, the point is that God is said to kill large numbers of people for being bad, and so every time large numbers of people get killed by nature, it is not absurd for Christians who believe the Bible to think it was a deliberate act of punishment. I shall try to avoid a Hitler analogy, but your interpretation of the Noah parable sounds like eugenics.

 

[Lori_7]

So the words of John the Apostle of Patmos mean as much to you as Jesus?

they're beginning to, yeah. it's all according to what i've lived through you know? i see the difference being that because of jesus and his word that i've lived through, i don't need a crystal ball regarding circumstance (as those in revelation) to feel safe.

 

[birch]

religion is corrupt because men are corrupt, which is exactly what the bible says, and if you practiced discernment instead of being judgmental, which is also what the bible recommends, you would know that. it seems that you're not interested in discerning, but interested in feeding an agenda, like the woman in the videos.

if anyone is feeding an agenda, it's you.

you really don't like what that woman in the video said. the reason is because it reveals the 'uglies' of the religion you represent. it's pretty disgusting how you reach as well as how much selfishness is required to have to keep it all under wraps and not let any fray edges show, isn't it?

you have the nerve to pin on me and her something that your religion represents. she isn't misrepresenting, that's what you don't like. she is just not representing it the way you view the religion or the christian god or the bible. aren't you being judgemental toward her? she may even be a christian.

you want to present the religion as without any faults. you are no different than the 'religionists' you claim you are against. of course not, then why would you be a follower of an inherently fundamental religion.

it's YOU who is misrepresenting and a liar.

 

[John99]

heheh. let me explain this one to you. there is also scriptures to repudiate that or make that null and void.

the bible is a mixture of contradictions so that one can pick and choose what they want to do depending on the situation but represents itself as "without" contradictions. it's a divide and conquer strategy "against" non-christians. this is why the religion is corrupt, no matter if the person chooses to follow only certain teachings. why it's corrupt is if one is representing that religion (not to mention condoning it all) but not doing anything at all to change the doctrines but representing what they choose to be the real religion but NOT one of them wants to change any of these scriptures, denounce it as prejudicial, immoral etc. that makes those who profess to be christians dishonest when they pick and choose while they condone it all. it is essentially a front.

the old testament is like the wolf and the jesus of the new testament is like the sheep. this combined is what is used to draw people to it but really, it is because of the way the teachings are as well as the core doctrines (fundamental religion), essentially a wolf in sheep's clothing.

of course a christian will usually not judge another christian because they are usually of the same beliefs. but of course a christian is to go and convert others to their beliefs and religion. that is the antithesis of not judgeing. since the core doctrines will always trumps the various minor doctrines including 'nonjudgement of gentiles' doctrine, that doctrine is the nectar to draw but in fact the core values are judgemental of non-christians or non-christian beliefs.

again, it's just wolf in sheep's clothing. it's the wolves and not the sheep who are really the true christians. ironic but true.

The Old Testament was not written by Christians. There were no Christians when it was written.

 

[chimpkin]

and so every time large numbers of people get killed by nature, it is not absurd for Christians who believe the Bible to think it was a deliberate act of punishment.

Yep...and so, if they're extra-good, it won't happen to them...

Which those of us who are more logically-minded view as a false sense of reassurance...But I can understand how that would make someone feel better.

The Old Testament was not written by Christians. There were no Christians when it was written.

That's incorrect. The bible was a collected group of oral teachings actually written down around 200 A.D...so the bible stories contradict each other because they were different teachings being passed around by different groups...and y'all know how stories change over time, right?

Although the Old Testament is based on the Torah, I believe...so maybe you are right...hmmm

 

[birch]

The Old Testament was not written by Christians. There were no Christians when it was written.

is something seriously wrong with you?

 

[John99]

is something seriously wrong with you?

What the hell are you talking about?

Is something wrong with you?

Do you even know what the old testament is?

 

[Lori_7]

Is the Bible also corrupt? Because it is the work of men?

Regardless of the ultimate purpose of killing everyone but Noah, the point is that God is said to kill large numbers of people for being bad, and so every time large numbers of people get killed by nature, it is not absurd for Christians who believe the Bible to think it was a deliberate act of punishment. I shall try to avoid a Hitler analogy, but your interpretation of the Noah parable sounds like eugenics.

yes it does.

i think the bible is very clear in many ways about sin residing in our flesh, and that it would be silly to think that men's efforts could ever thwart god's message or will.

jesus was born without sin. the only one, by a divine seed, not of mankind. this is a new bloodline; clearly a genetic reference. how is mankind said to be healed, redeemed, restored, reborn? by the blood. by the blood of christ. by a voluntary sacrifice of flesh. communion with god is often ritualized by ingesting symbols of christ's body and blood. don't you want to hope for the best regarding evolution?

it could be a long, drawn out, relatively gentile transition, but it doesn't sound as if it will be that way, and it doesn't look as if it will be that way nowadays does it?

 

[birch]

What the hell are you talking about?

Is something wrong with you?

Do you even know what the old testament is?

you totally dismiss context when you want to make a rediculous point.

the "bible" includes both the old and new testament because it is the supposed words of the "same" god... this is the "reason" why "christians" have both the new and old testament in their bible.

still, it does make you "wonder" why you would be presenting idea of yours to a non-christian vs a "christian." it would seem this tidbit would be more important for them to know...

totally backwards....

 

[Lori_7]

if anyone is feeding an agenda, it's you.

you really don't like what that woman in the video said. the reason is because it reveals the 'uglies' of the religion you represent. it's pretty disgusting how you reach as well as how much selfishness is required to have to keep it all under wraps and not let any fray edges show, isn't it?

you have the nerve to pin on me and her something that your religion represents. she isn't misrepresenting, that's what you don't like. she is just not representing it the way you view the religion or the christian god or the bible. aren't you being judgemental toward her? she may even be a christian.

you want to present the religion as without any faults. you are no different than the 'religionists' you claim you are against. of course not, then why would you be a follower of an inherently fundamental religion.

it's YOU who is misrepresenting and a liar.

bullshit. the message of christ is that if you're going to point your finger, point it at yourself. i'd like to know what divine country this woman is from, within which she thinks she is untainted by the sin of humanity. i didn't watch the video, but i would bet she's american. yeah, we're the good guys. it's a fucking utopia here.

 

[John99]

you totally dismiss context when you want to make a rediculous point.

the "bible" includes both the old and new testament because it is the supposed words of the "same" god... this is the "reason" why "christians" have both the new and old testament in their bible.

still, it does make you "wonder" why you would be presenting idea of yours to a non-christian vs a "christian." it would seem this tidbit would be more important for them to know...

totally backwards....

Birch, this does not seem to be sinking in...the old testament came before there were Christians.

 

[chimpkin]

i think the bible is very clear in many ways about sin residing in our flesh,

The reason I find Christianity very distasteful.(well, one)

Christians view the body as a Sin dump. My religious bents tend to view it either as the incarnation vehicle one happens to be in; or a temple and amusement park.
Either way, a lot more cheerful, no?

(And if you're going to go all "My illogical belief system is true and yours is not!" I'm going to laugh at you.)

 

[spidergoat]

I say we are imperfect because evolution is imperfect. It has no plan for the future, and so we can only be adapted to our world by the purifying fire of death and it's influence on hereditary traits. That means every one of our ancestors was at least just good enough. Our road will never be easy because we aren't "meant" to survive. The universe does not care about our existence in the least. No human eyes will live to see our sun die out. But perhaps something will, who's ancestors were box jellyfish or birds.

Were all of Noah's peers evil? Who could condemn an entire race? In modern times we would call that genocide. Do you feel safe knowing God could wipe out your family too in another misguided attempt to purify the species?

But seriously. Bits of the Bible, which is a collection of writings by various people, can make sense in certain contexts, helped along by the human capacity to weave meaning out of chaos.

Disaster can happen at any time, and it has nothing to do with how good we are. Science tells us there have been many extinctions.

Why aren't you horrified by the concept of the scapegoat? That's what Jesus was, a modification of the native practice of drawing bad spirits into an animal or unliked villager, then killing them in much the same manner as crucifixion. That's some primitive voodoo shit. No one can answer for the crimes of another.

 

[birch]

jesus was born without sin. the only one, by a divine seed, not of mankind. this is a new bloodline; clearly a genetic reference. how is mankind said to be healed, redeemed, restored, reborn? by the blood. by the blood of christ. by a voluntary sacrifice of flesh. communion with god is often ritualized by ingesting symbols of christ's body and blood. don't you want to hope for the best regarding evolution?

by christ, huh? what happened to your tune that religion has nothing to do with god? that all religions are equally valid? that these are metaphors? so it's christ which is from "your" christian religion who is going to restore "mankind." not just you, not just christians but everybody which would be people who have their own deities or philosophies. what a megalomaniac and so insulting of them.

so it's your religious beliefs and your christ who is the savior of the world.

you are pathetically wily. you've been misrepresenting yourself all along. whenever the religion is questioned, you disassociate from it and lie through your teeth. when they aren't, you go right back to what you really think and change your tune again. that is not debate. if you really believe something, you are supposed to defend it period. you are not here to preach but to debate.

if your belief was that there can be more than one path or religion that leads to god or to enlighenment which you kept saying before, you wouldn't have said this.

thank you for continuing to confirm what i know about christians.

 

[chimpkin]

No one can answer for the crimes of another.

This is one thing the Koran says... you have to pray to God directly for forgiveness, because nobody else can pay for what you yourself have done.

I'm no Muslim either, but I'd agree with that, too.

 

[birch]

Birch, this does not seem to be sinking in...the old testament came before there were Christians.

what's not "sinking" into that brain of yours is that christians condone the old testament teachings since it is the word of god. it is not a different god but the same god. why do you think they reference it? why do you think it's in the bible? that is the crux of the issue.

besides fire and brimstone for pagan nations is not just found in the old testament.

your POINT is actually irrevelant to a non-christian. you need to preach this to christians since it's THEY who reference and believe in the doctrines of the old testament.

why do you think it's included (old testament, new testament) for chrissakes as the word, morals, teachings, actions of their god? what is so hard to comprehend about that?

wtf?

 

[John99]

They may regard from a scriptural perspective and so do many others. Christianity began after Christ, the Old Testament was long before that.