Syria September 2015 ~ What's up?

[sculptor]

I suggest, however, we should take a wider view on this issue. Yes, we might defuse the problem for a while, by setting quotas on harmful emissions or by taking other measures that are nothing but tactical. But we will not solve it that way. We need a completely different approach.

We have to focus on introducing fundamental and new technologies inspired by nature, which would not damage the environment, but would be in harmony with it. Also, that would allow us to restore the balance upset by biosphere and technosphere (ph) upset by human activities.

It is indeed a challenge of planetary scope, but I'm confident that humankind has intellectual potential to address it. We need to join our efforts. I refer, first of all, to the states that have a solid research basis and have made significant advances in fundamental science.

We propose convening a special forum under the U.N. auspices for a comprehensive consideration of the issues related to the depletion of natural resources, destruction of habitat and climate change.

Russia would be ready to co-sponsor such a forum.

Ladies and gentlemen, colleagues, it was on the 10th of January, 1946, in London that the U.N. General Assembly gathered for its first session.

Mr. Suleta (ph) (inaudible), a Colombian diplomat and the chairman of the Preparatory Commission, opened the session by giving, I believe, a concise definition of the basic principles that the U.N. should follow in its activities, which are free will, defiance of scheming and trickery and spirit of cooperation.

Today, his words sound as a guidance for all of us. Russia believes in the huge potential of the United Nations, which should help us avoid a new global confrontation and engage in strategic cooperation. Together with other countries, we will consistently work towards strengthening the central coordinating role of the U.N. I'm confident that by working together, we will make the world stable and safe, as well as provide conditions for the development of all states and nations.

Thank you.

 

[Schmelzer]

Why do you not mention the Sunni Arabs and where they stand?

Sunni is not an ethinicity, but a religion. So, even if Assad would kill all Sunnis, which he did not (he has, in fact, a lot of support from Sunni too, not all Sunni want totalitarian Wahabism) this would not be ethnic cleansing.

Obviously you don't find it ironic that Bashar Assad's army has killed vastly more of the Syrian civilians he pretends to be protecting than the Wahabists he pretends to be fighting have, while it's the Wahabists that you label the worst of the terrorists.

I don't find it ironic, but simply an unreliable propaganda claim.

Does that include the children who were torn to shreds by the Syrian army for painting anti-Assad graffiti, or the parents who received the remains at their doorsteps?

"torn to shreds"? Your source claims 15 kids thrown to jail by a local guy, with Assad firing this local guy and freeing the kids. It also reports " burning of official buildings, including the ruling Baath Party's headquarters and the governor's office" in an uprising, with some deaths after the opening of fire against this by the local guy. So, thanks for discrediting the story of peaceful demonstrators for democracy yourself.

Yes, anyone who opposes the invasion and enslavement of their country by a bunch of squat, flat-headed, droopy-eyed, fetal alcohol Caucasian drunks with low IQ's and well-deserved inferiority complexes, must doubtlessly be Wahabi terrorists out to destroy Mother Russia.

Thanks for repeating classical Nazi propaganda hatespeach against the Russians. This is, in fact, interesting information. Up to know, I thought that the US is simply supporting the ukrainian Nazis because they don't care - to create unrest and chaos in the enemy's territory, they simply support everybody who is ready to kill other people. But your example suggests that there are even close ideological affinities between US propagandists and the Nazis.

And I say it's time for the US and its allies to sweep that power away with even better air defenses meant to halt the Russo-Iranian genocide and level the playing field.

Interesting. Putin has said that he will use his military only with UN support. You want a fight US against UN?

Ok, not completely unexpected. Last but not least, the Russian-brokered ceasefire in South Ossetia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sochi_agreement was also supported and observed by OSCE, but then violated by the US puppet Saakaschwili.

 

[Quantum Quack]

sculptor, Thanks for posting that. I had no idea it would be so long!

It may be worth considering that Assad, like all Presidents, is dependent on support for his presidency.

Especially the support and dare I say potentially extreme influence, of his General brother, Maher al-Assad who apparently commands the primary military assets and secret police. (Syria).

"He is just as much a puppet of his supporters as Obama or Putin are."

 

[sculptor]

I liked Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin's words. I hope that he and the U.N. can deliver on those goals.

 

[CptBork]

Sunni is not an ethinicity, but a religion. So, even if Assad would kill all Sunnis, which he did not (he has, in fact, a lot of support from Sunni too, not all Sunni want totalitarian Wahabism) this would not be ethnic cleansing.

Actually yes, it would be ethnic cleansing. You need to go look up ethnic cleansing in the dictionary, because it includes the targeting of religious groups and violates international humanitarian law as much as targeting people for their race. Secondly, the overwhelming majority of Syria's top government and military positions are held by Alawites, while the overwhelming majority of the communities under siege and assault are Sunni. If you think it's not a sectarian war, you've neither listened to the words of the Alawite leaders and their allies, nor Hezbollah's racist propaganda, nor Iran's. You didn't even mention Arab Sunnis when describing the core supporters of Bashar Assad, which proves that you view their exclusion from the government as legitimate, and that you view it as legitimate to systematically target 70% of a country's population rather than giving them the vote.

I don't find it ironic, but simply an unreliable propaganda claim.

I think you actually know these claims to be perfectly reliable. There is ample footage and independent reporting of civilian neighbourhoods being targeted by Russian-built planes dropping massive unguided munitions, and those planes aren't being flown by ISIS or NATO. This is why people like yourself and your communist friends in the Duma don't want the UN to launch an independent investigation and Russia uses its veto to prevent one, because you know it would reveal the blatantly obvious and make it "reliable".

"torn to shreds"? Your source claims 15 kids thrown to jail by a local guy, with Assad firing this local guy and freeing the kids. It also reports " burning of official buildings, including the ruling Baath Party's headquarters and the governor's office" in an uprising, with some deaths after the opening of fire against this by the local guy. So, thanks for discrediting the story of peaceful demonstrators for democracy yourself.

I'll admit that my memory of the incident was a bit off. The children were returned alive after being held for several weeks and severely beaten and tortured in Syrian prisons, zero government reforms were initiated in response and no government officials, police or soldiers were arrested and prosecuted for the crime. Countless other children have died of torture in Syrian prisons after being arrested for similar good deeds, as repeatedly documented by Human Rights Watch and several other recognized, credible international organizations.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2012/02/03/syria-stop-torture-children

The protests were largely peaceful until Bashar Assad's forces started beating protestors and indiscriminately shooting into the crowds, as clearly documented here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War_(January–April_2011)

If you want to claim that tearing down a poster or vandalizing a government building are sufficient justification for shooting lethal ammunition indiscriminately into crowds, whether or not those protestors were first provoked by other brutalities, then please proceed to make your case, and explain why unlike them, you should personally be allowed to express your own opinions without a government official arresting and shooting you.

Thanks for repeating classical Nazi propaganda hatespeach against the Russians. This is, in fact, interesting information. Up to know, I thought that the US is simply supporting the ukrainian Nazis because they don't care - to create unrest and chaos in the enemy's territory, they simply support everybody who is ready to kill other people. But your example suggests that there are even close ideological affinities between US propagandists and the Nazis.

I think you're just upset that I didn't refer to those drunk flat-headed neanderthals you send to occupy other countries as "master race". Their thuggish behaviour in foreign countries makes me wonder what sort of violence they employ when their own wives don't call them "handsome". Suck on it, no one else wants to be like you or ruled by you.

Oh and if you want to see neo-Nazis, go walking around Moscow with a pro-gay rights sign; they'll be all over you like flies to a turd in minutes, with Putin's explicit blessing.

Interesting. Putin has said that he will use his military only with UN support. You want a fight US against UN?

Putin's military is already in Syria and it doesn't have any UN support, stop making up more RT nonsense. The UN's top priority is to send in observers on the ground to prove what's really happening in Syria and to recommend war crimes charges against those responsible, and Putin has done everything in his power to block it so far. In my opinion, preventing a genocide is more important than waiting for the UN while Russia and China block it from gathering basic info and doing its job.

If Russia and Assad stick to bombing ISIS areas and leave civilian populations elsewhere, that would be acceptable to most of the world. By all indications, that's not what they're setting up for, and ISIS isn't even the main target.

Ok, not completely unexpected. Last but not least, the Russian-brokered ceasefire in South Ossetia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sochi_agreement was also supported and observed by OSCE, but then violated by the US puppet Saakaschwili.

The treaty referred to was signed in the 1990's, and it was Russia who violated it by sending its military forces to Georgia with heavy equipment, and that's why it's Georgians whose population has almost vanished in Abkhazia from ethnic cleansing (less than half now remain), rather than the drunk colonists who took their place. Before Russia invaded Georgia in 2008, the same OSCE you cite offered to organize peacekeeping forces and peace negotiations for the region, which were rejected by Russia and the colonists it transplanted there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War#Unresolved_conflicts

The fundamental difference between the West's storyline and the USSR's is that western stories can be checked and independently corroborated, while the USSR obstructs this from happening and uses violence against those who defy its clampdown. That's why you'll continue to reject the idea of international monitors and war crimes charges in Syria, while your brain leaks out of your ears watching RT all day, dreaming of a mythical future where Russia is no longer a laughingstock failed state.

 

[sculptor]

WOW
China is getting involved!
whodathunkit?

 

[Quantum Quack]

Perhaps the truth about the exodus of people from Syria may yet be revealed...
Especially now that Russia has has been "motivated" to up it's activities there.

"The ISIS monsters are plotting to unleash a nuclear holocaust, killing millions of innocent people in "the largest religious cleansing in history", an insider has claimed.
German journalist Jurgen Todenhofer spent ten chilling days with the terrorists, managing to escape alive."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...arth-claims-reporter-embedded-extremists.html

 

[Quantum Quack]

I liked Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin's words. I hope that he and the U.N. can deliver on those goals.

Yes on the surface his rhetoric sounds sincere but I have grave doubts about his true intentions...Already he has apparently initiated attacks against non-ISIL targets and is giving indications that he supports ISIL in it's quest to destroy the West.

"Russia launched air strikes in Syria on Wednesday in its biggest Middle East intervention in decades, plunging the four-year-old civil war into a volatile new phase as President Vladimir Putin moved forcefully to stake out influence in the unstable region.

Moscow's assertion that it had hit Islamic State militants was immediately disputed by the United States and rebels on the ground. The attacks also raised the dangerous specter of Washington and Moscow running air strikes concurrently and in the same region, but without coordination."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/30/us-mideast-crisis-russia-idUSKCN0RU0MG20150930

 

[Quantum Quack]

Possible Putin Strategy:
To use IS as a vehicle...

 

[sculptor]

Possible Putin Strategy:
To Use IS as a vehicle...

Strategy vs tactics
It seems that often we see tactics claimed as, or assumed to be strategy-
meanwhile
It also seems that the russia/iran/china/syria/iraq coalition has been planned and organized for quite awhile-----(it took awhile for china to move ships to the Mediterranean) and, only now that they are ready to engage is it made public on the day that russian planes became active and while Putin could convene the U.N. security council.

Reality? shadows? or reflections?

...............
normally, when the pot starts to boil, i turn the heat down
i'm getting the feeling that someone is turning the heat up.
...
however, I have been known to draw to an inside strait.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Notes:
1/ Putin knows the West has difficulty trusting his words.
2/ Putin would therefore, if intentions were sincere, demonstrate clearly his commitment to the destruction of IS, therefore offer reason that he could be trusted by attacking IS positions.
2a/ Putin would seek to de-conflict his actions with the alliance against IS but has not done so.
3/ It appears that no IS targets have been attacked.
4/ No reason to trust Putin. Many reasons to distrust Putin.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Strategy vs tactics
It seems that often we see tactics claimed as, or assumed to be strategy-
meanwhile
It also seems that the russia/iran/china/syria/iraq coalition has been planned and organized for quite awhile-----(it took awhile for china to move ships to the Mediterranean) and, only now that they are ready to engage is it made public on the day that russian planes became active and while Putin could convene the U.N. security council.

Reality? shadows? or reflections?

Good call... "What is real?"
I believe the actual threat ( secret extortion "made against all major world nations by IS") since the disappearance of Flight MH370 March 2014 that has "ham strung" world response to IS is about to be revealed.
Notes:
Apparently Malaysia was a center for Al-Qaeda biological WMD weapons research.

Russia, China also have been operating under duress since this flight disappeared but now it appears the gloves are coming off.

 

[Quantum Quack]

IMO The real question that needs to be asked is
"What is IS waiting for?"
"What is stopping them from launching their final agenda?"

Notes:
They have the weapon, as the Russians inadvertently alluded to in phone conversations immediately after the shooting down of MH17 in the Ukraine. What is stopping them from deploying it?

 

[CptBork]

What is Islamic State waiting for, you ask? It's not like they can go anywhere they want- their firepower is still dwarfed by neighbours such as Turkey, for all the media hysteria that would have some thinking otherwise. The US is trying to hit Islamic State from the air without harming civilians; that's extremely tough to do without reliable allies on the ground, when those allies are mainly interested in stopping Assad's far deadlier, more indiscriminate war machine, and therefore receive negligible US backing.

Russia on the other hand has little interest in fighting IS as long as IS mostly fights other rebels and indirectly aids Assad's own ambitions, which is why Russia's first airstrikes were nowhere near any of Putin's supposed targets. Not only does Putin not care one lick about civilian casualties, but he doesn't even care if they're in areas not under any form of IS control. It's comical really that Russia's leaders are really that drunk as to think they don't even need to drop a few bombs on IS territory just for show, they think Putin can simply stand in front of a podium and lie about everything, and that international audiences will be as stupid and gullible as all the fetal alcoholics they broadcast to back home.

 

[sculptor]

Is Australia backing out of it's previous close following of washington's demands that Assad must go?

 

[Quantum Quack]

Is Australia backing out of it's previous close following of washington's demands that Assad must go?

There has been news to that effect... I believe the situation is evolving and still under consideration...

 

[Quantum Quack]

What is Islamic State waiting for, you ask? It's not like they can go anywhere they want-

Do I have to spell it out to you?
Biological weapons delivery requires no real firepower. The suicide "bomber" doesn't have to deliver explosives.
The greatest fear of all nations is the suicidal bio wmd carrier. A small vial of blood products is all it takes. ( or self infection )
IS has always worked with the fear card. It is their greatest weapon.
Notes: One of the reasons for "no-boots on the ground" may be a credible fear of bio warfare.

Possibly demonstrated with Ebola in Africa and MERS in the Middle East and South Korea

 

[Quantum Quack]

Is Australia backing out of it's previous close following of washington's demands that Assad must go?

I feel they consider IS to be a greater threat to world security than Assad and that they are prepared to consider a "stay of proceedings" against Assad and his alleged crimes against humanity. The problem is how to support a President that is accused of such crimes with out compromising our position regards International law...and perhaps the only legitimate course is to abide by that rule of law regardless, because it is the apparent flouting of international law that is the bulk of the problem anyway.

All of this indicates just how serious the Australian Government views the threat IS poses.

 

[CptBork]

Do I have to spell it out to you?
Biological weapons delivery requires no real firepower. The suicide "bomber" doesn't have to deliver explosives.
The greatest fear of all nations is the suicidal bio wmd carrier. A small vial of blood products is all it takes. ( or self infection )
IS has always worked with the fear card. It is their greatest weapon.
Notes: One of the reasons for "no-boots on the ground" may be a credible fear of bio warfare.

Possibly demonstrated with Ebola in Africa and MERS in the Middle East and South Korea

If it was that easy to conduct biological warfare on an epidemic scale, I think it would have already happened a long time ago by pure accident. Yes, it's possible ISIS could infect someone and send them over, and they could infect dozens of others in the process, but most nations have safeguards against such measures, and it usually takes a lot more than just a few sick people for diseases to spread and become difficult to control.

ISIS isn't known to have any WMD's other than whatever they've been able to scrape together from sites Saddam Hussein abandoned more than 20 years ago, and they certainly don't have any modern means of weaponizing whatever they have or delivering it in an effective way. On the other hand, Bashar Assad is known to have massive arsenals of chemical and biological weapons traditionally pointed at Israel, he has already used these WMD's to kill thousands of Syrian civilians while Russian thugs cover up for him on RT and at the UN, plus he has the missiles needed to deliver them in lethal doses over large areas, making Assad a far greater WMD threat than ISIS.

And then you want to tie this all in to a Malaysian aircraft that by all indications crashed into the ocean from the loss of oxygen pressure in the pilot's cabin, just because another aircraft got shot down by some droopy-eyed drunk rapists occupying eastern Ukraine? The much more plausible story is that Russia has no game plan other than to use military force wherever possible while attempting to chisel away at America's prestige, and ISIS is nothing more than an excuse for them to impose a puppet dictatorship on Syrians who don't like their culture and politics.

 

[sculptor]

coupl'a stray thoughts:
I doubt that Bashar Hafez al-Assad is quite the bogyman that western propaganda would have us believe.

When we helped topple the leaders of Libya and Iraq, more death and chaos ensued. ...And continues still........
Why would anyone expect a different/better result this time?

We were wrong once, then wrong again, but surely this time will be different!
"We're due man!"

Either really stupid, or really Machiavellian?
The "Arab spring" is poking up through the seat cushion and becoming a real pain in the ass.

.................
"Hey Lukey, g'wan out to the truck and get the sledge hammer".
"Don't worry lady, there ain't a mirror in this town that I can't make fit."