Suicides more likely to be atheists

SAM said:
Since I don't share your belief that deities and prayers can be athiestic,
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That's not my belief. As you have been repeatedly informed.
SAM said:
historians point out that the decay of religion in society is a consistent marker of the decline of that nation. Now you may consider atheism to be a religion, I don't, so we've reached an impasse here.
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Historians in general do nothing of the kind, it would be question-begging if they did, we were discussing atheism rather than religion, and this lying little schtick you are pulling with misrepresentations such as what I "may consider" is getting a bit old.

There's no impasse here. Just denial of direction by you.

Suicide. Atheism. Correlation. analysis of, cross-culturally. I know you can do it, if you try.

edit in, can't resist:
SAM said:
But the elderly suicide is interesting from the POV of breakdown of the family unit in athiest societies. Did your grandmother live with you?
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Stalinist Russia,your type specimen of "atheist society" whatever that is supposed to mean, was notable for the multigenerational families in each dwelling - an unusual feature of a Western industrial power. Also, a fairly high suicide rate, even higher if alcoholism were included in a percentage.

With the collapse of the Soviet State in '89, which presumably made it a thestic society again (the ever-present theistic church did not collapse, but instead increased), the multigenerational families continued, and the suicide and alcoholism rates jumped to even higher levels.
 
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Stalinist Russia,your type specimen of "atheist society" whatever that is supposed to mean, was notable for the multigenerational families in each dwelling - an unusual feature of a Western industrial power. Also, a fairly high suicide rate, even higher if alcoholism were included in a percentage.
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Hmm so atheism does not work even if the family unit is maintained? Thats interesting.

With the collapse of the Soviet State in '89, which presumably made it a thestic society again (the ever-present theistic church did not collapse, but instead increased), the multigenerational families continued, and the suicide and alcoholism rates jumped to even higher levels.
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All that atheistic brainwashing. What did they call it? League of the Militant Godless. You're bound to see it till the generations die out. Supports that Turkish study on atheistic education and suicide ideation too. Bet you'll see it go down as religion takes hold. I believe they have started religious education in Russia again.

Historians in general do nothing of the kind,
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They do, actually. Look up the fall of Greece, Rome, Carthage, the Ottoman Empire.
 
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S.A.M. said:
Yeah, so what?
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You're intellectually dishonest, that's what.

But the elderly suicide is interesting from the POV of breakdown of the family unit in athiest societies. Did your grandmother live with you?
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Red herrings swimming everywhere. Sam's drowning in her own waste.
 
S.A.M. said:
Those poor kids.
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So what conclusion did you arrive at?:

1. If I don't sign up for a religion I will commit suicede?
2. If I leave a religion, I will kill myself?
3. Religion works as suicede prevention?

All horseshit by the way... :)
 
SAM said:
Hmm so atheism does not work even if the family unit is maintained? Thats interesting.
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Since it directly contradicts your assertions, it's also relevant.

The prevalence and distribution of organized theism vs multigenerational cohesive families in the US over the past 450 years also contradicts your assertions, of course. But probably mere physical circumstance is not the issue, I would guess.
SAM said:
All that atheistic brainwashing. What did they call it? League of the Militant Godless.
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Apparently, it held families together and kept the suicide and alcoholism rates down. As soon as theism came back, families fell apart and they both jumped.

Or are you going to fall back on the continual strong theistic presence that actually dominated your alleged "atheistic society"?
SAM said:
Historians in general do nothing of the kind,
”
They do, actually. Look up the fall of Greece, Rome, Carthage, the Ottoman Empire.
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I'm sure you can find some historians - especially from older Christian scholarly traditions interpreting the world as progressing toward a Christian era - who will interpret events as being marked by what they regard as the "decay" of some religion, especially not Christianity. More sensible people notice that the question is actually begged by such analysis - how are you deciding when Rome fell, for example? It certainly wasn't marked by the "decay" of Christianity - unless you regard the institutionalizing and empowering of that religion as a "decay", which some do.

Similar problems with Sparta, Athens ("Greece", apparently), Carthage, etc.

Now the "decay" of a religion may have something to do with the rotting of the Ottoman Empire. But seeing as how the religion most closely involved seems to have spread with new vigor during the decay and from the corpse, another interpretation of exactly what was decaying and why seems plausible, no?
 
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The religious decay is specific to the society, not to the religion. Note that when the Ottomans collapsed, they had abandoned religion altogether. Ataturk instituted an athiest Turkey, which is reverting to Islamists.
 
SAM said:
The religious decay is specific to the society, not to the religion. Note that when the Ottomans collapsed, they had abandoned religion altogether
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Are you seriously claiming that the Ottoman Empire formed a society, and that society had abandoned religion at the time of the collapse?
SAM said:
Ataturk instituted an athiest Turkey, which is reverting to Islamists.
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All these "atheist societies" created by fiat, packed full of the most seriously theistic people on earth. Odd.
 
The Ottomans had. Many of the upper class [the power groups] Arabs were very much into communism at the time and the elite were all very secular and very anti-religion. Don't you know?

The society was already fragmented and the post nationalism period has brought back the religious ideology that was missing before. Even Saud, for example, was led by a religious reformer, and destroyed all the historical Islamic structures to impose his new system of Islam.
 
SAM said:
The Ottomans had. Many of the upper class [the power groups] Arabs were very much into communism at the time and the elite were all very secular and very anti-religion. Don't you know?
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Is that your idea of an "atheist society" - a small ruling class with a somewhat higher than average proportion of communists, and an empire of dozens of societies full of fundamentalist theists ?
 
S.A.M. said:
The religious decay is specific to the society, not to the religion. Note that when the Ottomans collapsed, they had abandoned religion altogether. Ataturk instituted an athiest Turkey, which is reverting to Islamists.
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Why don't you tell the real story, with facts, instead of making up your own story to suit your agenda?
 
(Q) said:
http://www.discovery.org/a/4001
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You're quoting the Discovery Institute? Priceless.

The Discovery Institute is a conservative public policy U.S. think tank based in Seattle, Washington, best known for its advocacy of intelligent design and its Teach the Controversy campaign to teach creationist anti-evolution beliefs in United States public high school science courses.[2][3][4][5][6] A federal court, along with the majority of scientific organizations, including the American Association for the Advancement of Science, say the Institute has manufactured the controversy they want to teach by promoting a false perception that evolution is "a theory in crisis", through incorrectly claiming that it is the subject of wide controversy and debate within the scientific community.[7][8][9] In 2005, a federal court ruled that the Discovery Institute pursues "demonstrably religious, cultural, and legal missions",[10] and the institute's manifesto, the Wedge strategy, describes a religious goal: to "reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions".[11][12]
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I see what you mean by 'facts'. Thanks for sharing :D
 
Saquist said:
Untill the New Millenia black males had the lowest suicide rate of all ethnicities and white males had the highest in America.
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Black males in America do not stick around to raise their children; and everyone knows that suicide is most often an escape from our own hideous brood.

Voila.
 
Untill the New Millenia black males had the lowest suicide rate of all ethnicities and white males had the highest in America.
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So accoreding to the assertions here we have low suicide rates among 1) slaves and the oppressed 2) fundamentalist theists, especially those in poverty.

And high suicide rates among 1) the rich and free 2) atheists.

Common factors involved ?
 
swivel said:
Black males in America do not stick around to raise their children; and everyone knows that suicide is most often an escape from our own hideous brood.

Voila.
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It is most often the mothers and grandmothers in black society that have raised them. I think that instilled them with the will to survive due to the slavery roots. Subjugation has an effect of forcing individual and cultures to accept their fates and position in life...thus survival is the only real concern.
 
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