Suicides more likely to be atheists
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
I note that this rigor was not applied to the thread on Intelligent people are less likely to be theists, even after I opened an SFOG thread on it. If instead of accusing me of dishonesty and manipulation, Skin had asked me to corroborate my facts, I would have done so, there is tons of data on religious affiliation an suicide rate. However, his bias in this forum is evident to me, hence his protestations of scietific validity ring very hollow.
Here's another:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/v8f77ke9mfmjh8ge/
Just to be clear, those links aren't for me since I'm not making a statement one way or the other regarding the assertion that suicide is more prevalent among atheists or the religious.
Clearly, SAM is making an attempt to deflect from her mistake. One which I only called her on since I had access to the very report she thought she was citing. I'm happy to concede that SAM may not have intentionally sought to deceive and that she was merely incompetent. However, I maintain that she is trolling with her first post in this thread since she fallaciously implied that atheism causes suicide and will cause the suicides of students who are taught that there is no god.
SAM:
I am not aware of the thread you refer to in post #90. But it doesn't matter. Diverting the discussion onto a tangent to avoid taking responsibility for your actions does not demonstrate much integrity in my opinion.
Two wrongs do not make a right. The fact that somebody else is dishonest does not mean it is ok for you to be dishonest. You ought to take responsibility for your error/deception.
I am not aware of the thread you refer to in post #90. But it doesn't matter. Diverting the discussion onto a tangent to avoid taking responsibility for your actions does not demonstrate much integrity in my opinion.
Two wrongs do not make a right. The fact that somebody else is dishonest does not mean it is ok for you to be dishonest. You ought to take responsibility for your error/deception.
I wan't intentionally dishonest. They showed a correlation which I know is correct, it is supported by many citations. I just used it because it is WHO data, which I know has greater power than clinical studies and hence I consider it more representative. Since it is a pdf, the only way to post the picture is by cutting the image and posting it. I gave the source of the figures, but its data in the public domain, so I did not see a requirement for citation. And, all other studies support it. So its not a dishonest representation. And it was published, so you can argue the research is sloppy, but clearly the editors saw fit to publish it. Its peer reviewed and the conclusions constitute published research by WHO representatives.
Last edited:
It isn't WHO data. You didn't give the source of the figure but of WHO. The figure comes from Bertolote & Fleishmann. The research is flawed, but not nearly as flawed as your citation.
It was not a citation, it was the source they cited for their figure in their paper. WHO data is public domain, it is common in scientific presentations to merely cite the source of the data in such cases, we do it for all WHO, CDC and FAO data.
However, thank you for the attention to rigor in this thread.
The rest of my citations clearly indicate that the correlation is reproducible and consistent.
Suicidal people are more likely to be athiests.
However, thank you for the attention to rigor in this thread.
The rest of my citations clearly indicate that the correlation is reproducible and consistent.
Suicidal people are more likely to be athiests.
ok. i wanted to be sure someone didnt just make their own graph. i am installing a pdf viwer right now
Interesting, so we are not allowed to make an argument that teaching there is no God to children is likely to increase the incidence of suicide based on published scientific studies that show this correlation.
So much for a scientific approach to religion.
So much for a scientific approach to religion.
Why do you presume that? Don't be silly.
Who has prevented you from doing that? Nobody. This is a straw man.
As I said, also, teaching there is a God to children is likely to increase the incidence of homicide, based on published scientific studies blah blah blah.
So, while atheistic children might be more likely to kill themselves, they'll be less likely to kill each other. It seems this religious education thing is a double-edged sword. Agree?
Because its sloppy research to assign religious affiliation to countries.
My posts being moved from the relevant thread being a delusion?
Not at all. I eagerly await your cited published peer reviewed research showing that the homicide is perpetrated by practising religious people who are not frustrated closet atheists. Must avoid sloppy research.
Mod Note: posts on the topic of suicide were moved to their own thread since the emerged topic hijacked the original OP of the original thread. Contrary to the fallacious complaint above, there is no censorship of anyone's ability to continue with the equally fallacious argument that to teach children no god exists increases their likelihood for suicide.
This is more attempts deflection and misdirection from SAM upon being exposed for her poor ability to cite a source.
This is more attempts deflection and misdirection from SAM upon being exposed for her poor ability to cite a source.
I don't know about that. Everyone that I know of on this site that has been suicidal or has committed suicide was a theist.
I'm not surprised. I can see why they would kill themselves after visiting here.
That is the opposite direction of causality/implication from your usual assertions.SAM said:
You have a correlation. The direction of implication remains to be established - and as far as I can tell, you haven't even noticed the issues involved.
Possibilities: atheists are more likely to count their suicides accurately (Sweden, for example, counts a certain percentage of its traffic accidents as suicides. The US does not even include a percentage of its flagrant drunk driving mishaps in the suicide category). Atheists are more likely to suicide in ways that get counted as suicide. Severely depressed or mentally troubled people in a theistic culture are more likely to become atheistic, and more likely to kill themselves. Atheists in a theistic culture are more likely to be outcast, and outcasts are more likely to kill themselves. Atheists in a theistic culture are more likely to lack purpose derived from cultural roles, and thus more prone to estrangement and suicide. And so forth.
Acknowledged atheism can be very traumatic in a religious family.
Another major possibility is that you and your sources are not identifying atheists accurately. You still insist that all religious people are theists, you quote websites that claim theism for such religions as the Navajo's without discussion, and similar indications of significant bias. Your sources share your presumptions, in other contexts.
But after all that, I still agree that atheistic people are in fact more likely to suicide. That doesn't make them very likely to suicide, of course. Did you have a point ?