Studies say: soul exists.

wesmorris

Jan, what would you call a "soul"?

I would say the individual [spirit]soul is an atomic (in quantity) particle of the of the Super-Soul (God).

I'm pretty sure there exists an "imaginary component" of mind. I suppose I'd call that a "soul". At least I think I've got a pretty reasonable understanding of its existence.

That's fair enough.

I don't think "meaning" fits into space-time, literally. There's no place for it.

What do you mean?

Jan Ardena.
 
rainbow__princess_4 said:
Persol seems to talking a whole bunch of crap, what happened to the original point? Instead you're here triumphanting proclaiming that your "Creator" has always existed, what the hell? How about things just create themselves, plants with pollen and bacteria with chromosomes and animals with stomachs... now let's get back to souls... NOW! :
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Lol, were you paying attention?First, I wasn't claiming anything about the creator. In fact, I was putting foward the argument that you just posted. This is important to the topic of souls (especially in relation to computers, which is most of this thread). The argument was raised that computers can't have souls because God didn't make them. My point was that God may not have created us directly either, and that the 'soul' may actually be an immergent property. but thanks for yelling at me for something I didn't say... it was kinda funny.
 
Red Devil

1. Computers now may lack own will, but ask yourself this, did you know what a pc was in 1990? I thought it was a policeman!

What?

Red devil

2. Why does there have to be a "masterbeing" to create anything? Of course the present universe created itself, in the "big bang". I am not a physicist but I suggest you read Stephen Hawkings.

What made the big bang then? another big bang and another?

Really there should be a being similar to us , with own will but enough power ,wise, and knowledge to create everything from the big bang to our own race, who is already very complex.

Red Devil

3. Scientists now can create something out of nothing, remember the words of a 60s classic "Aquarius" comes to mind "We are star dust" - read into that the literal meaning, "atoms to atoms, dust to dust". The "form" may change but matter exists. The atoms that make up my body will simply disipate when I die. They themselves will not die.

Yea u are right matter cant be made by us out of nothin, we dont have that power, we can only transform everything that exists.
 
What made the big bang then? another big bang and another?
It was the master big bang that made it.
 
There is no reason to assume that there was a 'first' at all. Further, there is no reason to assume that a 'first' would require intelligence/will. Further, there is no reason to assume that a creator would be needed to create a soul.

But once again, you are going to say 'but that's a paradox'... without giving any logical reason. Sigh.
 
You know who you are , if we are enough intelligent to be talking right now about this topic, logic says that an even more complex being was needed to made our race and everyhting
 
logic says that an even more complex being was needed to made our race and everyhting
No, it doesn't. Otherwise that same logic would require an even more complex being to create the complex one that created us... and so on and so forth.

Logic does NOT say that intelligence is needed to create something complex. This may be your belief, but it is unsupported.
 
Persol

No, it doesn't. Otherwise that same logic would require an even more complex being to create the complex one that created us...

In other words ur accepting that a more complex being is needed, and im not talking about other beings, im talking about the one who made us and the universe, that also ends with the being who always existed and never need and external being to always exist, can also called alfa-omega. but nothing before.



But im sure youl come with a similar contradiction like before , just with other words...
 
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Jan Ardena said:
I would say the individual [spirit]soul is an atomic (in quantity) particle of the of the Super-Soul (God).
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Can you try it in terms of the individual? I think I would consider a "soul" to be "the aspect of POV that is not physical" or "the imagnary component of perspective".... the part of your thought that is real, but not physical. Know what I mean? Your particular "conceptual inter-relationship" and that which feels it, that is your soul. That which generates meaning. That is one's soul.
I don't think "meaning" fits into space-time, literally. There's no place for it.

What do you mean?
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That while the physical interaction of chemicals in your brain is representative of emotions, they are not the emotions themselves nor are they at all conceptual. Physical things cannot be conceptual, they can be represented by concepts, which in and of themselves, are purely non-physical. Even if there is a common chemical configuration of "a tree" in our minds, that still does not supply the perspective to encompass the idea of a tree and what that means, or how it - as a concept - fits into the body of your experience, or how that experience has been organized into concepts that are representative of the details of your impression of your experience over time.
 
In other words ur accepting that a more complex being is needed, and im not talking about other beings, im talking about the one who made us
You seem to be missing the point. Based on your 'escalating complexity' even 'the one' needs a creator. There is NO reason to randomly pick 'the one' instead of just picking the universe itself.

who always existed and never need and external being to always exist
And this can't just be applied to the universe why?
 
Personel

And this can't just be applied to the universe why?

Because the universe isnt like you and me (ie not a being) , its a mix of all
(matter, alive beings), and if its origin was a Big bang, another superior being should be there to wanted all that we see to exist including ourselves.

Persol

Based on your 'escalating complexity' even 'the one' needs a creator. There is NO reason to randomly pick 'the one' instead of just picking the universe itself.

If continue saying that "the one " "God" whatever its called needs a creator, nothing cant have beginning, there can be only TWO : Creator and creation nothing more.
 
another superior being should be there to wanted all that we see to exist
Once again, no logic. You just think that this is the way it 'should' be. This is not thinking for yourself.
 
Persol

Once again, no logic. You just think that this is the way it 'should' be. This is not thinking for yourself.

I know its hard to accept the existence of God, without directly seeing it, but we are advanced and deep beings to be talking about this, we also didnt create ourselves, so a superior being should be there and its obiously not pure matter like a mindless rock , its in fact another more complex being similar in nature to us, but in great scale.

You want logic? no creator no creation its done.
 
we also didnt create ourselves, so a superior being should be there and its obiously not pure matter like a mindless rock
Why? You keep saying 'should'. That isn't logic, it is a desire. Also note, that nobody was claiming we are pure matter. We know for a fact that we are part energy. The idea of a soul (which is the topic of this thread) is also in question.

no creator no creation its done
Please look around the religious and philosophy forums like I asked you. This is not logic. This is a belief. It doesn't bother me that you believe this, but that you continue to claim that this is a valid base for discussion... when it isn't a base you are able to support. Nobody before you in thousands of years has presented a logical argument for God. Likewise, nobody has presented a logical argument against. The existance of God is mute to this discussion, as is using him for proof.

Note: Anybody else ever wish that it was possible to thread topic replies when you know you're going to go 'off course'?
 
Persol

Why? You keep saying 'should'. That isn't logic, it is a desire

It was a mere word, part of the logic of creation previously said.

Persol

Also note, that nobody was claiming we are pure matter. We know for a fact that we are part energy.

I didnt talk about us, i talked about the creator ,and if are not pure matter then the one who made us its not too.

Persol

Please look around the religious and philosophy forums like I asked you. This is not logic. This is a belief. It doesn't bother me that you believe this, but that you continue to claim that this is a valid base for discussion... when it isn't a base you are able to support. Nobody before you in thousands of years has presented a logical argument for God. Likewise, nobody has presented a logical argument against. The existance of God is mute to this discussion, as is using him for proof.

And what about you? if you are creation and the universe too, its logical that theres a creator, in fact ur proof of it since u exist and are talking right now about this.

Whatever u say, you cant negate your existence, you are the creator proof, and all of us, including this universe. believing that theres no creator its like
saying we cant exist.
 
its logical that theres a creator, in fact ur proof of it since u exist
For the last time, you haven't shown that a creator is needed. You also haven't shown how the need of a creator is limited to only the universe. You have only stated that it is so.
 
persol

For the last time, you haven't shown that a creator is needed. You also haven't shown how the need of a creator is limited to only the universe. You have only stated that it is so.

I never said that creation was limited to the universe, in fact i said that everything including our race , was made from the knowledge and power of the creator, and its obiously not a mindless rock who made all.

Saying that we dont need a creator to exist its a contradiction since we are creation, and yes we need one otherwise nothing could exist(logicaly), im sure you already got it but, youll never accept it here.
 
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