Studies say: soul exists.

blonde_cupid,

How do you come to the conclusion that faith is wrong? Is faith testable using the scientific method?
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Wrong? That isn’t a word I would choose.

Faith is belief without evidence or proof. If you have a different definition then we should explore that.

Such a method is not adequate for determining a truth. If the faith belief is true then there is no way to know that. With science we know when we reach truth because of the evidence and proof. If no such evidence is available then science simply does not reach a conclusion. Faith also has no evidence but goes the extra step and claims the idea is true.

The issue is not that faith is testable or not but whether the process is reliable. How does one who uses faith know that their conclusion is valid? This is specifically why the scientific method is used to determine whether something can become knowledge or not.

Faith simply isn’t a complete process, and as such it has no value.

Cris
 
Cris,

You wrote:

***Faith has never shown anything similar and has consistently been proved wrong each time science makes new discoveries.***

Do you see that you said that faith has been proved wrong?

In follow-up, I asked:

***How do you come to the conclusion that faith is wrong?***

In response, you said:

***Wrong? That isn’t a word I would choose.***

Huh??? It looks to me like you chose wrong.

So, again, I'll ask... Is faith testable using the scientific method?

If not, how can you assert that faith has consistently been "proved wrong" each time science makes new discoveries?
 
Chris....

So what do u think? that we are walking supercomputers? but... a computer can be evil or good? or it can actually "know" about its own existence?

I guess not, we are "beings" ,different individual beings with our very own decisions, without depending, on the brain to take our own path, the brain might give emotions, and the intelligence to be capable of very outstanding inventions and tasks, but in fact the brain its not the "being" its a very complex alive organism, that makes us smart "beings" , but no more, it lacks the "individual being" call it spirit, soul whatever u like, the fact is that even a supercomputer as smart as the human brain, will never be a "being with his own will" it will be just vert smart, and if it takes decisions, its because WE program it to take OUR decisions and will, but infact we are the only "beings" that have real will, decision and existence, because we want, and the innate power to just feel the evil or the good itself, computers are mere "smart dead matter"(no life involved) and just takin about what ur eyes see , will never let u know the "thruth" of human existence, also its scientific knowledge that when the person dies, the body its something like 21 or 25 grams lighter in the moment of dead, its very probably that is the "being" that makes 21 grams lighter a body just afterdeath.

You dont believe in God right? so how can u actually exist and are talking in this forum right now? really nothing can exist without a previos existing creator (includes universe), and we are not creators, just transformers of previously made matter.

Tony
 
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Yeah and remember all those people who's hearts have stopped and they reckon they're climbing up a tunnel of light towards a brighter light or garden before being revived? And that turned out to be chemicals rushing to the brain creating light, and the garden was, in the confusion of having its heart stopped, the body "Living" what it hoped too... ie. the person knew they were dying and were imaging going to heaven while really believeing they were... who conducted this study? Why only heart patients? Perhaps only ppl with screwy hearts have souls, why not?
 
Faith in itself is not wrong, its all up to the individual. What is wrong is those people who try to force feed it to others. As I have stated in diff threads, on occasion, I am an athiest but I do believe that there must be "something" after death, otherwise life itslf is pointless and irrelevant. My own experiences had reinforced what was already a belief. Messages from "beyond" that only the subject could have known about. Its a very long story but something happened that "convinced" me there is a continuation after the physical self expires. Our mind is our "soul", it carries on after the body has finished. I do not believe in divine beings, but I think there are other levels of existence. As Dennis Wheatley once wrote in his excellent factual book "The Devil & All His Works" about the existence of 7 astral planes, or levels.

Free thinking is mainly human in practise on this planet, most animals are pre conditioned in their thoughts, but, like a dog, can be taught to think along different lines. Intelligent species like whales and dolphins etc have proved to have some level of free thought, but how intense it is I know not. There will come a day when a computer will be "enabled" to think for itself, I hope that day is further away that most people think, it could be dangerous. Terminator film series comes to mind. This is fiction, but how many sci fi films and series have now been proved correct with innovation and technology? Even Star Trek, with its teleporters, is now fact in the lab, albeit at a very primitive stage of development.

God did not create the universe, it is a process of natural, chemical, evolution. The laws of physics developed the universe to what it is today and will continue to develop (or decay) the universe as we progress through time. Every single scientific discovery we make, all lead to the same thing, a none divine universe. Religion, as I have also stated before, is the invention of the simple mind to explain the illogical.
 

Red devil

There will come a day when a computer will be "enabled" to think for itself, I hope that day is further away that most people think, it could be dangerous. Terminator film series comes to mind.

They lack own will , if u believe in the soul ull agree that theire are not beings with its own will, just very smart computers that will do what we want , whatever evil or good we want , at the level of intellingence of a human.


Red devil

God did not create the universe, it is a process of natural, chemical, evolution. The laws of physics developed the universe to what it is today and will continue to develop (or decay) the universe as we progress through time. Every single scientific discovery we make, all lead to the same thing, a none divine universe.

Who actually was the "masterbeing" who made the "natural , chemical evolution of the universe"? another chemical reaction?

In the end ull be always thinking about a creator with its own will, who wanted all this stuff, and even u to exist.

Finally nothing can create itself, none universe can be created by its own, since its a contradiction .
 
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Who actually was the "masterbeing" who made the "masterbeing"? another "masterbeing"? Who created him?

its because WE program it to take OUR decisions and will
A simple case of randomness would take care of that. The point is, it isn't much of a flaw you point out. Your main sticking point seems to be that you do not believe soulds can emerge from the works of people. It's an unsubstantiated view.

Also, believing in the soul doesn't mean that it was created by a masterbeing. If it exists, it could also be a result of the universe. The soul itself could be an emergent 'behavior'.

the body its something like 21 or 25 grams lighter in the moment of dead, its very probably that is the "being" that makes 21 grams lighter a body just afterdeath
Please check your sources before making claims, and look at the very obvious reasons given.

In the end ull be always thinking about a creator with its own will, who wanted all this stuff, and even u to exist.
Well no. If the creator could 'always exist and create everything'... who's to say that that the universe hasn't always existed. You have every right to say it, but it isn't very convinving... and your logic isn't very consistent.
 
Only the creator always existed, the universe is just a creation in transformation that doesnt create anything.

Dont go with things of who made the creator since its impossible, and as i can see we dont create, just transform previously made matter of this planet.
 
Only the creator always existed, the universe is just a creation in transformation that doesnt create anything.
Well here's the problem. You've already decided, even though you have no reason to have decided that way. If you are going to continue to rely soley on what you believe as a source of discussion, then please don't discuss. You know what you want to think, and have no actual logic with which to support a your conclusion.

Dont go with things of who made the creator since its impossible, and as i can see we dont create, just transform previously made matter of this planet.
You are completely unwilling to accept that matter/energy may have always been here? You can claim it is impossible, but have not demonstrated any reason beyong "because it goes against my unfounded belief".
 
Persol

You are completely unwilling to accept that matter/energy may have always been here? You can claim it is impossible, but have not demonstrated any reason beyong "because it goes against my unfounded belief".

I dont base on my very own opinion , but nothing that its unexistent can make itself, thats the law of creation, its like saying the universe made itself, without existing.

Also only a being with its own will could make something like the own life and the universe, and with a purpose too, very similar to human acting, in great scale.
 
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It's like saying the creator made itself, without existing.

Do you now see the flaw in your logic here?

You are claiming:
A can not create A
A can not have always existed

However, you only apply this to the universe, and not to your creator. It seems just as likely that your second claim is wrong, in which case the universe could have always existed. I don't know how to explain this any more clearly.

thats the law of creation
Rather then trying to resort to 'the law of creation', why not explain why you think that 'law' actually exists?
 
Personel

You are claiming:
A can not create A
A can not have always existed

The difference:

Say we have A and B

Yes A cannot create A

but B can, and B was always there ,that is, and ends anything about unlimited creation hipotesis.

Personel

Rather then trying to resort to 'the law of creation', why not explain why you think that 'law' actually exists?

Because its logic nothing that doesnt exist can create itself.
 
Once again, you have no logic behind it to claim that. Why can the creator have always existed, but not the universe?
 
Because its the origin, otherwise its an unlimited irrelevant logic of creation. remeber the universe(every part) its not a being like u and me, although some external force its moving it.
 
You completely miss the point. If your creator doesn't need a creator to avoid contradiction, then neither does the universe. Your claim of 'some external force is moving it' is also unsubstantiated.

Like I sai before, you are posting based soley on beliefs which you haven't actually evaluated, and which you can not support. Read through the religion and philosophy forums if you don't understand where your argument is flawed.
 
Jan, what would you call a "soul"?

I'm not much of a fan of the word because of the religious connotations, however... I'm pretty sure there exists an "imaginary component" of mind. I suppose I'd call that a "soul". At least I think I've got a pretty reasonable understanding of its existence.

I don't think "meaning" fits into space-time, literally. There's no place for it.
 
Persol seems to talking a whole bunch of crap, what happened to the original point? Instead you're here triumphanting proclaiming that your "Creator" has always existed, what the hell? How about things just create themselves, plants with pollen and bacteria with chromosomes and animals with stomachs... now let's get back to souls... NOW! :
 
Personel

You completely miss the point. If your creator doesn't need a creator to avoid contradiction, then neither does the universe. Your claim of 'some external force is moving it' is also unsubstantiated.

If the universe is creation it needs the creator.

yes scientifics say universe its expanding and moving, but even them doesnt imagine what moves or expand it.

Its not about evaluation, its logic of existence.
 
Tdmasta said:

Red devil

There will come a day when a computer will be "enabled" to think for itself, I hope that day is further away that most people think, it could be dangerous. Terminator film series comes to mind.

They lack own will , if u believe in the soul ull agree that theire are not beings with its own will, just very smart computers that will do what we want , whatever evil or good we want , at the level of intellingence of a human.


Red devil

God did not create the universe, it is a process of natural, chemical, evolution. The laws of physics developed the universe to what it is today and will continue to develop (or decay) the universe as we progress through time. Every single scientific discovery we make, all lead to the same thing, a none divine universe.

Who actually was the "masterbeing" who made the "natural , chemical evolution of the universe"? another chemical reaction?

In the end ull be always thinking about a creator with its own will, who wanted all this stuff, and even u to exist.

Finally nothing can create itself, none universe can be created by its own, since its a contradiction .
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1. Computers now may lack own will, but ask yourself this, did you know what a pc was in 1990? I thought it was a policeman!

2. Why does there have to be a "masterbeing" to create anything? Of course the present universe created itself, in the "big bang". I am not a physicist but I suggest you read Stephen Hawkings.

3. Scientists now can create something out of nothing, remember the words of a 60s classic "Aquarius" comes to mind "We are star dust" - read into that the literal meaning, "atoms to atoms, dust to dust". The "form" may change but matter exists. The atoms that make up my body will simply disipate when I die. They themselves will not die.
 
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