Street Harrassment.!!!

[Bells]

I'm not a man, so please don't take your vitriol for the opposite gender out on me.

What does your gender have to do with it?

After all, you seem to believe that stalking and harassing women on the street is not a bad thing. So I find your declaring you are not a man to be bizarre. No one actually cares if you are a man or a woman. What? You think that because you are a woman you cannot be a misogynist? There are many women who make excuses for the bad behaviour of misogynists who think that it is perfectly acceptable to harass women on the street.

In case it has escaped your notice, no one cares what you are. What we do care about is how you present yourself on this site and thus far, you are like the shill for the women hating crowd. As I said above, poor you, people in general believe that stalking and harassing women on the street is a bad thing and the thinking population believe that what happened to this woman in the video constitutes harassment, because that is exactly what it was.

So are you going to avoid answering that question some more? What was she doing to draw attention to herself as you claimed she was doing? Where does this happen in the video? How exactly was she drawing attention to herself?

I'm still waiting for you to back up your claim that the men featured in the video *only* say 'Hello' and 'God Bless You' to women.

Do try to keep up.

I view the actions of the men in that video to be sleazy and constitutes harassment. You are the one who has been blathering on about how it is just men saying hello to her..

Or are you willing to admit that your statement was little more than conjecture? Do you know these men in real life, or are you simply judging them based on sexist stereotypes?

I am judging them by their actions in the video. By how they look at her, react to her, stare at her, leer at her, even following her asking her why she won't speak to them. You know, judging them based on the very obvious actions they undertake towards her in the video.

I didn't see that in the video. Do you have the raw footage which actually shows the man stalking her for 5 minutes, or is this more conjecture on your behalf?

The footage of the guy who follows her, after talking at her and then speeding up to catch up with her when she walks faster to try to walk away from him and walk right in her personal space starts from about 50 seconds into the video. Then of course comes the guy who keeps at her about why she isn't speaking to him and keeps offering to give her his number for her to talk to him and has a go at her for not talking to him because he is too ugly for her, even though her speeding up and trying to walk away from him was a pretty obvious signal that she was not interested. I mean, I get it, this is perhaps acceptable behaviour for you and heaven knows how or why you may think this is acceptable. How many more excuses can you scrape up for bad behaviour and the harassment of women?

Now, I want you to show me exactly how and where she drew attention to herself in the video as you accused her of being. And why wasn't the guy who was walking just in front of her with the camera hidden in his bag harassed at all in the same way by the men just saying "hello" to her?

Go on Tali89. Don't you think you have avoided supporting your argument long enough?

 

[youreyes]

Tali89 if Bells is bothering you, let me know. I am fully on your side, please stay strong and avoid these provocations on you.

We all know that the supposedly 10 hours long walk in NYC has no proof, yet asserts its claim with a 3 minute bold provocation.

 

[James R]

Sexual harassment is illegal. The way around that is to argue that certain conduct isn't sexual harassment.

I must admit I don't know to what extent sexual harassment is illegal in different jurisdictions. I could be wrong, but I don't think that where I live there is a general prohibition on sexual harassment. We have specific legislation relating to harassment in the workplace and sexual discrimination in general. But I don't think we have any specific legislation that covers street harassment of the kind seen in the video on the basis of sexual harassment. Bells would probably have a better idea about the state of the law on this in Australia than I do. And the USA could very well be different (and vary across states, for all I know).

Is that shown in the video? Did the woman press charges??

It seems she is not pressing charges and that none of the men in the video have been arrested (at least, not to my knowledge). Therefore, it seems likely to me that the behaviour seen in the video is not illegal in New York. But even if it was it might be very difficult in practice to press charges. In this case, there is video evidence, but in most cases of such harassment, it's her word against his, and even identifying "him" so you can file charges could be a major problem.

As I explained quite clearly earlier, it does not follow that if there's no law against this kind of harasssment that it isn't really harassment at all, or if it's not illegal then there's no problem to be addressed by the New York community.

What is your characterization of a woman that goes out on the street and makes a video trying to find sexual harassment and record it on video, but when she does get it, instead of reporting it to the Police she posts it on the internet?? AOYAAT!

Like our friend tali89, you apparently think that the woman in the video did something to "try to find sexual harassment". I wonder what you think she did to invite sexual harassment? What I see in the video is a woman walking down the street. Is that an invitation to men to harass her, stalk her, make unwanted sexual advances towards her? Or was it what she was wearing? Or how her face looked?

Or was just going out into the street as a woman a good way to "try to find sexual harassment"? Because that's kind of the point of video, isn't it?

Oh, and in case you're wondering, the video was made and posted on the internet in order to get people like you to discuss the issue. And guess what? It worked a treat!

 

[James R]

We all know that the supposedly 10 hours long walk in NYC has no proof, yet asserts its claim with a 3 minute bold provocation.

No proof of what?

 

[Capracus]

Like our friend tali89, you apparently think that the woman in the video did something to "try to find sexual harassment". I wonder what you think she did to invite sexual harassment? What I see in the video is a woman walking down the street. Is that an invitation to men to harass her, stalk her, make unwanted sexual advances towards her? Or was it what she was wearing? Or how her face looked?

This woman was recruited by the producers of the video precisely for her physical attributes, and outfitted to maximize the ideal marketability of their cause. She was sent out to get the attention of the local male population and obviously succeeded. Big surprise.

 

[Bells]

This woman was recruited by the producers of the video precisely for her physical attributes, and outfitted to maximize the ideal marketability of their cause. She was sent out to get the attention of the local male population and obviously succeeded. Big surprise.

What physical attributes?

She was dressed in a black t-shirt and black jeans. How exactly is this being outfitted to maximize the "ideal marketability of their cause"?

And what exactly was she doing to get the attention of the local male population? Or do you mean walking down the street while dressed in jeans and a t-shirt and runners as a woman is now an invitation for sexual harassment?

Tali89 also claimed that she was deliberately attracting their attention. And yet is completely unable to define how exactly she was doing this. Can you please point out exactly what she was doing to draw their attention?

This isn't the first time such videos have been made. One woman made a video of her experiences in Belgium not that long ago and she had men of all ages propositioning her for sex, men telling her how she made them sexually desire her, even after she would tell them no and that she was not interested and at one point, even told one harasser that he was harassing her and to stop and he would not stop. Do you think walking while female automatically means that she is drawing attention to herself and thus, inviting sexual harassment?

Because in none of the videos that I have watched of street harassment and none of my experiences with street harassment show or involved the woman or myself ripping my top off in the middle of the street and telling men to 'have at it'. So unless you have proof that these women are somehow shaking their tatas and asking men to sexually harass them, your whine about it is pretty much you blaming women for daring to walk down the street.

 

[pjdude1219]

Tali89 if Bells is bothering you, let me know. I am fully on your side, please stay strong and avoid these provocations on you.

We all know that the supposedly 10 hours long walk in NYC has no proof, yet asserts its claim with a 3 minute bold provocation.

sure thing draqon

 

[pjdude1219]

This woman was recruited by the producers of the video precisely for her physical attributes, and outfitted to maximize the ideal marketability of their cause. She was sent out to get the attention of the local male population and obviously succeeded. Big surprise.

but according to joe she was ugly

 

[youreyes]

No proof of what?

Well didn't she claim to have walked in NYC for 10 hours and gotten sex harassments left and right

 

[Capracus]

What physical attributes?

She was dressed in a black t-shirt and black jeans. How exactly is this being outfitted to maximize the "ideal marketability of their cause"?

Form fitting jeans and T-shirt are not meant to highlight the attributes of this actress?

And what exactly was she doing to get the attention of the local male population? Or do you mean walking down the street while dressed in jeans and a t-shirt and runners as a woman is now an invitation for sexual harassment?

Tali89 also claimed that she was deliberately attracting their attention. And yet is completely unable to define how exactly she was doing this. Can you please point out exactly what she was doing to draw their attention?

She is an attractive curvaceous woman walking through a populated area, and this fact was noticed and acknowledged by the male contingent. That it was acknowledged in a matter not conforming to your particular sense of etiquette does not generally or officially classify it as sexual harassment. Most of the commentary in the two minute video is complimentary in nature, and I imagine the remaining 598 minutes that didn’t make the cut was even more so. My very attractive 22 year old daughter has stated that she was not offended by most of the male behavior in that video.

 

[iceaura]

Form fitting jeans and T-shirt are not meant to highlight the attributes of this actress?

1) No, her clothes do not appear in the least intentionally sexy. 2) So what if they were?

She is an attractive curvaceous woman walking through a populated area, and this fact was noticed and acknowledged by the male contingent.

How does that excuse their behavior? Are you arguing that any attractive woman walking through a populated area should, as a normal and expected constant in their lives, have to put up with that crap endlessly and without complaint?

That it was acknowledged in a matter not conforming to your particular sense of etiquette does not generally or officially classify it as sexual harassment.

That their behavior - the manner in which they "acknowledged" her - seems to be acceptable to people like you does not diminish its role or excuse its effect as harassment. There are many ways of "acknowledging" the attractiveness of a passing woman. This is chosen behavior.

My very attractive 22 year old daughter has stated that she was not offended by most of the male behavior in that video

So we agree that this behavior is common and seems normal.

Would you treat an attractive woman like that if she were your employer? If she were a police officer? Is that how your friends treat your daughter?

 

[Bells]

Form fitting jeans and T-shirt are not meant to highlight the attributes of this actress?

They just looked like normal jeans and t-shirt to me.

So she should have worn a burka?

But we know that doesn't work either - just need to read up on street harassment in Middle Eastern countries where women covered from head to toe in the loose garb are also harassed and sexually assaulted by men on the street.

Or wait.. Are you saying that women need to change how they dress so that random strangers on the street do not harass them?

She is an attractive curvaceous woman walking through a populated area, and this fact was noticed and acknowledged by the male contingent.

And?

Does that mean that men need to harass her and stalk her and comment on her looks, tell her to smile?

What should she have worn to not be harassed? Perhaps made herself look ugly?

That it was acknowledged in a matter not conforming to your particular sense of etiquette does not generally or officially classify it as sexual harassment.

It does if the recipient of such attention feels harassed.

Most of the commentary in the two minute video is complimentary in nature, and I imagine the remaining 598 minutes that didn’t make the cut was even more so.

Complimentary?

Should be thankful and grateful? Should she have given the guy who followed her and pestered her about how she was refusing to acknowledge him her phone number? Since he was being so complimentary and all?

I mean, it is not viewing her as a mere sexual object, is it?

Do you also "compliment" women this way, Capracus? Do you yell out to women that way in the street? You know, since it is complimentary to women to comment on their bodies, faces, tell her smile, stalk her?

My very attractive 22 year old daughter has stated that she was not offended by most of the male behavior in that video.

Well good for her. Do you "compliment" her that way as well? Since you and she do not think it is harassment or even sexual harassment, do you say "damn girl.. mmm mmm mmmm" when she wears something nice? Do your friends say it to her? Since you seem to think that this is just behaviour that conveys a compliment to women.. How about as Iceaura asked above, do you say this to your boss? I dare you to walk up to a female officer, look her up and down and say it to her face. After all, you are just giving her a compliment on her body and her looks, right?

After all, if it isn't sexual harassment or even harassment, and as you claim, it is just guys giving an attractive woman a compliment, what's the harm, right?

 

[tali89]

What does your gender have to do with it?

You tell me. After all, you're the one who continues to insinuate that I am male, in spite of me having given no indication of being so. Indeed, I've noticed that you have a history of using a person's gender to discredit what the say (for example, labelling GeoffP's observations as 'mansplaining'). I re-iterate, my gender has no place in this discussion.

I am judging them by their actions in the video.

No, you are not. Both you and Tiassa keep referring to supposed occurrences that we did not see in the video. Nobody said 'Show us your tits!'', nobody was shown to have followed her for five minutes (indeed, the video footage was only *three minutes* in duration), and nobody asked or even implied that they wanted to have such violent sex with her, that she couldn't walk the next day. We only saw the behaviour of these men for a matter of seconds, yet you make assumptions about how they treat other men, which is never actually shown in the footage. In otherwords, all of your allegations are conjecture, not fact. Worse, it's conjecture based on the sexist stereotypes you hold against men. Do you honestly believe that a man simply saying 'Hello' to a woman is proof that he wants to rape her?

Now, I want you to show me exactly how and where she drew attention to herself

I've already explained that your idol has behaved like an attention seeker. Heavily editing raw footage to support a sexist contention, and then putting it up for public view while asking for donations, is just troll baiting. You refuse to see this because of your inherent prejudice against men.

 

[Bells]

You tell me. After all, you're the one who continues to insinuate that I am male, in spite of me having given no indication of being so. Indeed, I've noticed that you have a history of using a person's gender to discredit what the say (for example, labelling GeoffP's observations as 'mansplaining'). I re-iterate, my gender has no place in this discussion.

Which begs the question of why you felt the need to tell me you were not male?

If your gender has no place in this discussion, why were you so intent on telling us you were not male?

And as someone who has only been here for 3 weeks (supposedly), you certainly seem to know quite a bit about me and what I have said to another poster many months ago. Been doing some reading, have we?

No, you are not. Both you and Tiassa keep referring to supposed occurrences that we did not see in the video. Nobody said 'Show us your tits!'', nobody was shown to have followed her for five minutes (indeed, the video footage was only *three minutes* in duration), and nobody asked or even implied that they wanted to have such violent sex with her, that she couldn't walk the next day. We only saw the behaviour of these men for a matter of seconds, yet you make assumptions about how they treat other men, which is never actually shown in the footage. In other words, all of your allegations are conjecture, not fact. Worse, it's conjecture based on the sexist stereotypes you hold against men. Do you honestly believe that a man simply saying 'Hello' to a woman is proof that he wants to rape her?

Considering that most rapes are acquaintance rape, you tell me.

I also speak of what I have experienced personally. Are you going to claim that a construction worker screaming out "show us your tits" or commenting on how his penis would fit just right inside my vagina was being complimentary? You do not see that as being sexual harassment? Although one of the worst cases of sexual harassment on the street I ever witnessed was my mother having some tool scream out about how she was a MILF while grabbing his crotch and suggesting ways her mouth could service him. She was appalled and devastated and did not want to come out on her own to meet me for lunch in the city for months afterwards. Is this acceptable in your opinion? Would you classify that as sexual harassment?

I've already explained that your idol has behaved like an attention seeker. Heavily editing raw footage to support a sexist contention, and then putting it up for public view while asking for donations, is just troll baiting. You refuse to see this because of your inherent prejudice against men.

And you are yet to identify how she was seeking attention in that video.

Tell me, is walking down the street as a woman now classified as attention seeking?

And what prejudice do I have against men? What? Are you going to assume that because I do not think people should harass others on the street, that this makes me prejudiced against men?

I also find it really interesting that you have not labeled James R, Tiassa and all the rest of the men and women in this thread who also find that video disturbing as being prejudiced against men. Why just me? Your behaviour is especially targeted, isn't it, Tali89?

 

[tali89]

Which begs the question of why you felt the need to tell me you were not male?

If your gender has no place in this discussion, why were you so intent on telling us you were not male?

The more pertinent question is: Why do you constantly make assumptions about other peoples gender in these sort of discussions? The fact that you make incorrect assumptions about my gender demonstrates how you make faulty assumptions based on your inherent sexism. Apparently if someone disagrees with you they are 'mansplaining', even if they are not male. Can't I have an opinion without you second-guessing my gender?

And as someone who has only been here for 3 weeks (supposedly), you certainly seem to know quite a bit about me and what I have said to another poster many months ago. Been doing some reading, have we?
I also find it really interesting that you have not labeled James R, Tiassa and all the rest of the men and women in this thread who also find that video disturbing as being prejudiced against men. Why just me? Your behaviour is especially targeted, isn't it, Tali89?

Oh my goodness, everything just has to be about you, doesn't it? Instead of this being about the welfare of women and gender equality, you instead are using the discussion to air your victim complex. Poor you, having your blatant misinformation challenged. Unlike you, I read through the posts on a thread before I respond. This is why my posts are relevant and on topic, whereas yours are little more than misdirection and fluff. The fact that you think your colleagues are prejudiced against men is immaterial to me. You are more than welcome to sort your personality deficiencies out amongst yourselves.

I also speak of what I have experienced personally.

What you have (supposedly) experienced personally doesn't have any relevance to what occurred in the video. We are discussing whether what occurred in the video constitutes sexual harassment.

 

[Trippy]

Apparently if someone disagrees with you they are 'mansplaining', even if they are not male.

From whence the assumption that women are unable, uncapable, or otherwise do not mansplain?

 

[Enmos]

From whence the assumption that women are unable, uncapable, or otherwise do not mansplain?

What exactly is 'mansplain' supposed to mean? Seems like a derogatory term to me...

 

[Bells]

The more pertinent question is: Why do you constantly make assumptions about other peoples gender in these sort of discussions? The fact that you make incorrect assumptions about my gender demonstrates how you make faulty assumptions based on your inherent sexism. Apparently if someone disagrees with you they are 'mansplaining', even if they are not male. Can't I have an opinion without you second-guessing my gender?

I said you are a misogynist.

That has nothing to do with what gender you are. Or are you going to babble about penis envy and Freud some more, and go into more lurid detail about how women are against guns because a gun reminds them of the penis they do not have? That one was so offensive that it had at least one poster comment on just how ridiculous and offensive it was. And you wish to comment about my supposed sexism when you have spent the entirety of your posting life here over the last three weeks making denigrating comments about women in general? How stupid do you think we are?

Misogynists often resort to women suffering from penis envy to excuse their views of women. I do not particularly care what your gender happens to be. What I do care about is that you post like a flaming misogynist and you go out of your way to offend others (male and female) with your posts.

Oh my goodness, everything just has to be about you, doesn't it? Instead of this being about the welfare of women and gender equality, you instead are using the discussion to air your victim complex. Poor you, having your blatant misinformation challenged. Unlike you, I read through the posts on a thread before I respond. This is why my posts are relevant and on topic, whereas yours are little more than misdirection and fluff. The fact that you think your colleagues are prejudiced against men is immaterial to me. You are more than welcome to sort your personality deficiencies out amongst yourselves.

I beg your pardon?

Who are you to make such an accusation against me?

Your posts are drivel and shill for the 'hate women crowd'. You are yet to provide anything to support your claims in this and your other women hating posts. And that has been the consistent message in every single one of your posts on this site. It has either been to make spurious allegations about certain people on this site, and make insulting and offensive comments about women in general, with the primary target of your hatred being against feminists. It is all you seem to whine about on this site. In fact, that is all you have been posting on this site. Three weeks and you have not posted about anything else. And you complain about my supposed misandry? What's the matter tali89, do you think my viewing the actions of the people in that video as being street harassment makes me a "man hater"?

What you have (supposedly) experienced personally doesn't have any relevance to what occurred in the video. We are discussing whether what occurred in the video constitutes sexual harassment.

This thread is about street harassment. Men and women in this thread have also discussed their experiences and those of the women they know. I find it really interesting that you only focus on mine. And even with that weird obsession you seem to have about women and feminists, do you think I have forgotten that you are still to support your claims about that woman in that video? I am still waiting.

And a word of caution, tali89. If you continue to launch such personal attacks against me or anyone else on this site, then you will face moderation. As it is, your posting style and your avid use of proxies to post on this site has already raised suspicion. I would strongly suggest you stop posting like a misogynistic tool and drawing even more unwanted attention to yourself.

 

[Bells]

What exactly is 'mansplain' supposed to mean? Seems like a derogatory term to me...

It is a term used when men (and women) try to explain women's issues to women and do so in a way that is condescending and generally treats women like they are too stupid to know better about the things that affect them directly, their bodies, their health and their families.

 

[tali89]

I said you are a misogynist.

Nope. You've made several statements (implicit and explicit) that I am male, even though you have never met me in person. You are in no position to determine my gender, and that you would trumpet baseless conjecture hurts what little credibility you have.

And you wish to comment about my supposed sexism when you have spent the entirety of your posting life here over the last three weeks making denigrating comments about women in general? How stupid do you think we are?

I haven't made any comments denigrating women in general. You, on the other hand, have adopted the victim status for women, and in doing so have denigrated them as a gender.

And a word of caution, tali89. If you continue to launch such personal attacks against me or anyone else on this site, then you will face moderation. As it is, your posting style and your avid use of proxies to post on this site has already raised suspicion. I would strongly suggest you stop posting like a misogynistic tool and drawing even more unwanted attention to yourself.

Oh dear, you're going to get me in trouble, are you? Once again, you're adopting the status of victim while simultaneously threatening me with your status as moderator on this forum. Apparently I'm persecuting you because I referenced a recent statement you made in a related thread. I'm targeting you because I haven't argued as much with other posters, in spite of you initially responding to me. I'm suspicious because I want to protect myself with a proxy server. I'm engaging in personal attacks, despite you having accused others of being rape apologists (an allegation that in real life could lead to social isolation and unemployment). Waa waa waa, you're such a precious little creature, aren't you? Listen, I don't have patience for your threats. Either ban me, or don't. Otherwise shut up and ignore me if you don't like what I have to say.