St. Paul's God

I have no shame, you should though, you are one totally stupid and dangerously sick person.and your still here.

mrs c20 if you get a chance to read some of the posts about your husband, unless your completely stupid yourself, you must take note that the people on this forum are from all over the world, and we have all come to the same conclusion that c20 is dangerous and needs to see a doctor.
 
All she sees is someone talking about his faith on a forum entitled 'Religion' in a mild mannered and personable way. She wonders why you are so bothered if you think it all to be rubbish. She says you should just probably press the ignore button if you do not want to hear it.

peace

c20
 
battig1370 said:
The best way to deceive is to abstain from all appearance of evil. Do you agree?

Peace be with you, Paul
Click to expand...

No, to abstain from all appearance of evil is an act of will. It shows that the one abstaining has self-control over his sinful nature.

peace

c20
 
---JESUS said, "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. --- Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them." ( Matthew 7:15-20 ) --- ( fruits --> the result of action )

Saul/St.Paul said, "Abstain from all appearance of evil." ( Thess.5:22 ),

Paul: The best way to deceive is to abstain from all appearance of evil. Do you agree?

c20H25N3o: No, to abstain from all appearance of evil is an act of will. It shows that the one abstaining has self-control over his sinful nature.

Paul: You said that to abstain from all appearance of evil is an act of will. This is correct, but appearance is only a pretense of being good. The question is why would a person just pretend to be good, abstain from all appearance of evil. Is it to gain favor for the Lord, or is to gain favor from the public, or both?

[ meaning of appearance; --- outward form as perceived; maintain an impression or pretense]

You answered, "No" that to abstain from all appearance of evil is not the best way to deceived. Can you explained. Can you give an example of a better way to deceive the world?

Peace be with you, Paul
 
yes c20 of course it's an act of will, nobody saying it is'nt, but it's the best way to deceive.
you cant disagree with that.
 
Understanding fundamental Christianity is to understand the personality and characteristics of Saul/St.Paul.

ROMAN 7:14-20 +24-25

"We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh, I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. --- Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? --- So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."

Saul/St.Paul said, There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in his Christ Jesus.

Peace be with you, Paul
 
battig1370: Understanding fundamental Christianity is to understand the personality and characteristics of Saul/St.Paul.

ROMAN 7:14-20 +24-25

"We know that the law is spiritual; but I am carnal, sold under sin. I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. So then it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh, I can will what is right, but I cannot do it. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. --- Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? --- So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."

Saul/St.Paul said, There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in his Christ Jesus.

Peace be with you, Paul
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M*W: This was probably written by Paul using Jesus as an excuse to justify his homosexuality. I've attached a comprehensive link links discussing this and other issues:

http://sullivan-county.com/news/paul/rpaul.htm
 
M*W: This was probably written by Paul using Jesus as an excuse to justify his homosexuality. I've attached a comprehensive link links discussing this and other issues:

Battig1370: Homosexuality is not the subject matter here, but Saul/St.Paul's wickedness is [Wretched man that I am!].

Saul/St.Paul's writes, "For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do" --- "Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me"

What is Saul/St.Paul saying here? "it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me" Does this mean that if a man rapes a child, he did not do it, but devil within him did it?

Peace be with you, Paul
 
battig1370: M*W: This was probably written by Paul using Jesus as an excuse to justify his homosexuality. I've attached a comprehensive link links discussing this and other issues:

Battig1370: Homosexuality is not the subject matter here, but Saul/St.Paul's wickedness is [Wretched man that I am!].
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M*W: The subject of Paul's homosexuality has been discussed at length on this forum. I am not saying that it is offensive to me, because it's not. It seemed to be a regular occurrence in those days and was practically an accepted practice.
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battig: Saul/St.Paul's writes, "For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I do" --- "Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me"
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M*W: Paul apparently struggled with his homosexuality in addition to being a liar, thief and murderer.
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battig: What is Saul/St.Paul saying here? "it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me" Does this mean that if a man rapes a child, he did not do it, but devil within him did it?

Peace be with you, Paul
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M*W: Again, he needed an alibi for his homosexuality, because he intended to keep practicing homosexual acts.

If the sin of child rape is within the person who rapes the child, it is not the 'sin' who should be blamed, it is the person who gives into his evil ways who commits the 'sin'. Paul admitted to being sinful, but I still say it was because he couldn't control his sinful urges being a homosexual, liar, thief or murderer. The way I see it is that if Paul admits his sin, he does so as to condone it.
 
The fundamentalist Christians are as the chief apostle of christianty described himself to be "I do not want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin which dwells within me. --- Wretched man that I am!" Saul/St.Paul's Christ who is the devil says that's OK, just believe in me and your saved.

Saul/St.Paul said, There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in his Christ Jesus. but the JESUS of the gospels said, "whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."

"My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and truth." -(1John 3:18)

Peace be with you, Paul
 
c20H25N3o: "After meeting God, Saul/Paul was transformed and he received the grace that is only available through Jesus Christ. Saul/Paul acknowledges the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ many times throughout his letters. How can Paul be both for and against Jesus?"

Battig1370: In what way was Saul/St.Paul transformed after the Damascus Road Event? Near the end of Saul/St.Paul life he writes, "I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin."

c20H25N3o: How can Paul be both for and against Jesus?

Battig1370: Saul/St.Paul was NOT BOTH for and against Jesus, because Satan transformed himself into an angel of light saying to Saul on the road to Damascus, "I am the Jesus of Nazareth" WHY would most all christians would say this is impossible? How is it that christians KNOW that God would not premit Satan to deceive whoever in these manner?

JESUS warned, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive 'The Very Elect'." - ( Matt. 24:24 ). c20H25N3o believes to be 'The Very Elect', because it is not possible that he may be deceived.

What kind of person is one that knows what is good yet does evil?

Peace be with you, Paul
 
my God, you lot are scary.
Carnal means animal, evil is carnal. "you shall know good and evil" - this means that when we were animals we were ignorant that our acts could be deemed as evil. when we evolved into rational creatures then we could appreciate our own cruelty. All evil that man engages in are excusable acts of survival when performed by animals in nature. When anyone talks of man resisting his carnal desires it means that we should elevate ourselves above the animal within us and be more humane. Jesus attempted to express that. You kill for survival of your race, animals have to do it, you indulge in your lusts - animals do it. Animals rape, kill, are cruel, you name it they do it. By being more humane we are elevated above the beasts.
Listen to Jesus only, don't listen to the false prophets.
Jesus was a man, born of man and woman, who has tried to elevate us above the numbers game that is life and he died for that, but his words were resurrected. Jesus gave us hope that our lives weren't fatalistic, that we could change the course and outcome of our lives. People have distorted that truth into racial hatred, and are therefore giving in to their carnal wills. Forgive, understand, learn. Rise above the demands of your genes will. It is your only salvation.
 
okconor:

Well said, Thankyou for saying, "Listen to Jesus only, don't listen to the false prophets. Jesus was a man, born of man and woman, who has tried to elevate us above the numbers game that is life and he died for that, but his words were resurrected. Jesus gave us hope that our lives weren't fatalistic, that we could change the course and outcome of our lives. People have distorted that truth into racial hatred, and are therefore giving in to their carnal wills. Forgive, understand, learn. Rise above the demands of your genes will. It is your only salvation."

Peace be with you, Paul
 
okconor: my God, you lot are scary.
Carnal means animal, evil is carnal.
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M*W: Welcome to the wonderful and zany world of sciforums religion. "Carnal" does not mean 'animal,' it means 'flesh'.
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okconor: "you shall know good and evil" - this means that when we were animals we were ignorant that our acts could be deemed as evil. when we evolved into rational creatures then we could appreciate our own cruelty. All evil that man engages in are excusable acts of survival when performed by animals in nature. When anyone talks of man resisting his carnal desires it means that we should elevate ourselves above the animal within us and be more humane. Jesus attempted to express that. You kill for survival of your race, animals have to do it, you indulge in your lusts - animals do it. Animals rape, kill, are cruel, you name it they do it. By being more humane we are elevated above the beasts.
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M*W: 'Carnal desire' in humans has evolved to mean something entirely different than 'lust in the flesh.' Humans have evolved beyond our simple animal instincts.
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okconor: Listen to Jesus only, don't listen to the false prophets. Jesus was a man, born of man and woman, who has tried to elevate us above the numbers game that is life and he died for that, but his words were resurrected.
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M*W: If you're referring to the bible, absolutely NOTHING Jesus said was recorded in the NT! NOTHING! The only place where you are going to find Jesus' actual words are in the Gnostic Gospels.
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okconor: Jesus gave us hope that our lives weren't fatalistic, that we could change the course and outcome of our lives. People have distorted that truth into racial hatred, and are therefore giving in to their carnal wills. Forgive, understand, learn. Rise above the demands of your genes will. It is your only salvation.
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M*W: What you are experiencing is 'false hope.' Again, you are confusing 'carnal wills' with animalistic behaviors. Our 'carnal will' gives us the desire to breathe, eat, drink, sleep, socialize, have sex and survive. Humans have already risen above the demands of our animalistic nature. We no longer need to hunt and gather. We simply buy our food at the grocery store. We no longer need to tame horses for transportation. We no longer eat our young for food. As humans have evolved, so have our genes. What we do today as compared to say 30,000 years ago, it is due to genetic memory. Genetic memory from caveman days influences men today in the numbers who hunt during hunting season and bring home the venison. It is the male genetic memory that gives men the urge to bar-be-que, and who gets the honor of carving the Thanksgiving turkey? You got it, men! It is the male genetic memory that gives men the need to build shelves. How many men do you know who have said they wanted to build shelves but never got around to it? I can tell you for sure, every man I have ever known has mentioned building shelves, and I have never seen anyone of them actually build them. This comes from the male urge to provide shelter for his tribe. We may not have lost our animal nature, but we have evolved beyond caveman days.

Human forgiveness, understanding and learning, have also evolved, but not equally among the human race, but there is always hope. These characteristics are driven by our higher nature. Perhaps that's why early man created god.
 
MW: Our 'carnal will' gives us the desire to breathe, eat, drink, sleep, socialize, have sex and survive.
okconor: Exactly, you agree - animals kill to survive, eat, drink, and breath. rape to have sex and procreate, etc animalistic behaviour - lust in flesh, call it what you will but it's your genes calling.

Non carnal activities include forgiveness and sacrifice - not included in survival or our genes, well altruism could be.

the only thing that's evolved in us is our brain size, everything else stayed the same, we're animals bouyed along in the universes numbers game. To change this you've got to rise above your carnal will.

And don't blame us males for all animalistic tendencies, women have sent enough men off to war for all the same reasons. Animalistic behaviour is ubiquitous to both sexes. It's my wife who demands the shelves and the washing machines. If it was all down to men then we would mostly be sitting under our tree with the occasional bit of F****** and fighting. Everything men do is about trying to impress a mate - EVERYTHING!

And I don't think you can seperate our mundane lives doing a bit of hunter gathering down at the supermarket from our animal past so blythely. The way we are manipulated in this commercialistic world is by one which any animal behavioural psychologist would instantly recognise.

Get some kids, have a family and your instincts to just survive in whatever world you find yourself come to the surfice. The qualities that seperate us as humans are not inherited but learnt, all children are animals until you civilise them, take away these factors and they quickly revert back - lord of the flies.

I think it has been a mistake to elevate ourselves above nature as something special. Whatever is going to happen to us, we will find we will be treated with the same hand as other species have had in the past and we've no way out of it.
 
It is wrong to deny that we are animals with animal needs and animal desires. It is much of what makes us human. Say 'I choose not to kill this man today', but do not deny that you have the urge if you do. No good ever comes from trying to separate mind from instinct.
 
okconor: Anyway, there's nothing wrong with Jesus, it's just christianity that's the problem
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M*W: I agree, especially since the Jesus you speak of had nothing to do with Paul's christianity.
 
okconor: Exactly, you agree - animals kill to survive, eat, drink, and breath. rape to have sex and procreate, etc animalistic behaviour - lust in flesh, call it what you will but it's your genes calling.
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M*W: I would hope that we have evolved beyond these sick behaviors.
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okconor: And don't blame us males for all animalistic tendencies, women have sent enough men off to war for all the same reasons.
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M*W: No, dear, it wasn't us women who sent all you men off to war. I, for one, sent myself off to war, and it wasn't because of my animalistic behavior!
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okconor: Animalistic behaviour is ubiquitous to both sexes. It's my wife who demands the shelves and the washing machines. If it was all down to men then we would mostly be sitting under our tree with the occasional bit of F****** and fighting. Everything men do is about trying to impress a mate - EVERYTHING!
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M*W: Well, I wish in my day I could have found a man to impress me!
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okconor: I think it has been a mistake to elevate ourselves above nature as something special. Whatever is going to happen to us, we will find we will be treated with the same hand as other species have had in the past and we've no way out of it.
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M*W: If we don't consciously see ourselves elevated above nature, we will be doomed to survive at the animal level. Have you watched a Jerry Springer show recently? His show portrays idiots who survive in the human wilds.
 
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