Sounds of ghosts from abandoned insane asylum

[Balerion]

yes. if we did, i am sure we could put them right up against our descriptions of ghosts demons, fairies, and angels, and aliens, and see which matches most closely.

Even in this hypothetical scenario, I sincerely doubt whatever unexplained phenomena we discovered would have any bearing on mythologies ancient or contemporary. We know what brought those about. Ghost stories aren't going to wind up being interpretations of actual paranormal events; they're all either hoaxes or misunderstandings of normal, everyday phenomena.

I doubt any evidence we found would reveal the complete story of these beings, so i doubt it would be clear cut as to what we would call them. We would need to know their history of contact here, and their actual purpose (of course if they talked to us, they could just be lying), to say definitively whether they were something we should call angels or demons, or whatever else.

That's a completely baseless and, frankly, silly thing to assume. Now you're filling in the blanks with your expectations of this phenomena actually relating to ghosts or demons, or the existence of some "other side." Disabuse yourself of these notions.

I dont see why we would or would not, out of an actual necessity, say these evidenced beings were demons for example, so essentially it would be correct to say we could probably call them "x", and also correct to say we needn't call them "x" at all.

Because officially classifying them as demons would be impossible, since we know demons are mythological beings. Of course, it's entirely possible that we might call it that, but only in the same way we call that cute marsupial from Tazmania the "devil."

 

[Magical Realist]

Because there's no need. Your behavior here tells us all we need to know.

Us? We? Is there a turd in your pocket?

See, you seem to think you know what I believe, but for some reason it's not fair when I think I know what you believe. Yet another in a long line of double standards.

I didn't mention anything about what you believe. I don't really even care. I mentioned something you're doing--a strategy to make me look like less of a person for believing in the paranormal. That's action not belief. And like you said, we can definitely judge people by their actions.

Like I said, the end of your faith in God would have meant an end in your belief in an afterlife. This ghost religion you now believe in keeps the possibility open. It's all the warm and mushy stuff from your former religion without the judgment.

Ooo yeah. An eternity stuck in some time loop haunting the place I suddenly died at. Where do I sign up! lol!

 

[Mazulu]

Even in this hypothetical scenario, I sincerely doubt whatever unexplained phenomena we discovered would have any bearing on mythologies ancient or contemporary. We know what brought those about. Ghost stories aren't going to wind up being interpretations of actual paranormal events; they're all either hoaxes or misunderstandings of normal, everyday phenomena.

Some ghost stories are a very specific message that there is something beyond our physical universe, something beyond death. No it's not a misunderstanding, it's not a lie, it's not a hallucination, it's a real message. You really have to be more human and more compassionate to understand the message. It's probably some phenomena of the dark matter.

 

[Balerion]

Us? We? Is there a turd in your pocket?

Anyone following along with this thread should have no problem seeing this. I'm not the only one who's chimed in on this.

I didn't mention anything about what you believe. I don't really even care.

Yes you did. You said I had an agenda. A motive.

I mentioned something you're doing--a strategy to make me look like less of a person for believing in the paranormal. That's action not belief. And like you said, we can definitely judge people by their actions.

And your actions are those of someone who is emotionally invested in their religion. Your religion just happens to be a modern one--the paranormal. It's not like I'm making this shit up; this is how you're behaving. Your double standards for evidence, your credulity--you're a deeply religious person.

Ooo yeah. An eternity stuck in some time loop haunting the place I suddenly died at. Where do I sign up! lol!

It's apparent that's not what you believe.

 

[Balerion]

Some ghost stories are a very specific message that there is something beyond our physical universe, something beyond death. No it's not a misunderstanding, it's not a lie, it's not a hallucination, it's a real message. You really have to be more human and more compassionate to understand the message. It's probably some phenomena of the dark matter.

No, you just have to be a sucker. You have to be willing to surrender your mind to fantasy.

You should disabuse yourself of the notion that one has to be a moron to be compassionate. Actually, I know you don't actually believe it. This is just for show.

 

[Mazulu]

No, you just have to be a sucker. You have to be willing to surrender your mind to fantasy. You should disabuse yourself of the notion that one has to be a moron to be compassionate. Actually, I know you don't actually believe it. This is just for show.

I have no idea what you're talking about, other than the fact that you are hateful and are selling me a line of bullshit. Your atheist views are bullshit. Based on the the amount of dark matter, I give 5 to 1 odds that atheism is misguided.

 

[Balerion]

I have no idea what you're talking about, other than the fact that you are hateful and are selling me a line of bullshit. Your atheist views are bullshit. Based on the the amount of dark matter, I give 5 to 1 odds that atheism is misguided.

And here comes the crybaby tantrum.

 

[Mazulu]

And here comes the crybaby tantrum.

Dude... dark matter... There are probably dark matter entities living all around you now.

 

[Balerion]

Dude... dark matter... There are probably dark matter entities living all around you now.

Pure, baseless speculation. Wish-thinking. You want it to be true, so you pretend it is.

 

[Mazulu]

Pure, baseless speculation. Wish-thinking. You want it to be true, so you pretend it is.

There is an after-life. and you don't want to recognize that fact. There is five times more dark matter than regular matter. You'll probably have to adjust your life accordingly. Try being a good person.

 

[Balerion]

There is an after-life. and you don't want to recognize that fact.

What fact? There are no facts in that sentence.

There is five times more dark matter than regular matter.

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Mazulu]

What fact? There are no facts in that sentence. What does that have to do with anything?

When facts are not available, hope will do. But those are not your ways. You worship facts, you care about nothing but hard cold facts. That doesn't make you better or stronger or wiser. It makes you scary.

 

[Balerion]

When facts are not available, hope will do.

Not when hope requires you to surrender your intellect and your integrity. Not when hope entitles you to think you're better than those who don't share your views. You call us soulless, say we lack compassion, even humanity, and for what? Because we disagree with you. Not because we say you're stupid, or because we say we're superior to you. In fact, no one has said either of those things to you, to the best of my knowledge. For the simple act of disagreeing, you treat the rest of us like scum. Literally call us scum.

You behave like a terrible person.

You worship facts, you care about nothing but hard cold facts.

Absolute nonsense. How does failing to believe in God mean we only care about "hard cold" facts?

That doesn't make you better or stronger or wiser.

I never said it did. My atheism is simply a lack of belief in any gods. It doesn't make me smarter than anyone.

It makes you scary.

Why? You'll never allow yourself to believe anything other than what you already believe. What threat could I possibly pose to you?

 

[Mazulu]

Not when hope requires you to surrender your intellect and your integrity. Not when hope entitles you to think you're better than those who don't share your views. You call us soulless, say we lack compassion, even humanity, and for what? Because we disagree with you. Not because we say you're stupid, or because we say we're superior to you. In fact, no one has said either of those things to you, to the best of my knowledge. For the simple act of disagreeing, you treat the rest of us like scum. Literally call us scum.

You behave like a terrible person. Absolute nonsense. How does failing to believe in God mean we only care about "hard cold" facts? I never said it did. My atheism is simply a lack of belief in any gods. It doesn't make me smarter than anyone. Why? You'll never allow yourself to believe anything other than what you already believe. What threat could I possibly pose to you?

It was actually wegs and some of the Buddhists here who make me think that atheists can disagree with my point of view, but still be nice about it. I honestly think that there is an afterlife. Given that there is five times more dark matter than standard model matter, there is plenty of reason to believe that ethereal things exist. It's a free country and you can believe what you like, but at least be civil about it.

 

[Balerion]

It was actually wegs and some of the Buddhists here who make me think that atheists can disagree with my point of view, but still be nice about it. I honestly think that there is an afterlife. Given that there is five times more dark matter than standard model matter, there is plenty of reason to believe that ethereal things exist. It's a free country and you can believe what you like, but at least be civil about it.

Who do you think you're fooling? You owe everyone here an apology for your behavior. You're the rude one, not us.

 

[cole grey]

Even in this hypothetical scenario, I sincerely doubt whatever unexplained phenomena we discovered would have any bearing on mythologies ancient or contemporary. We know what brought those about. Ghost stories aren't going to wind up being interpretations of actual paranormal events; they're all either hoaxes or misunderstandings of normal, everyday phenomena.

i thought we were just supposing a hypothetical that some actual beings were evidenced. So basically are you saying that, if these things were to exist, and they fit pretty well into previous ideas about ghostly apparitions, we should not call them ghosts, or are you not talking about the hypothetical? The fact is, if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, people can call it a duck, and it really won't matter what you wish to call it.
Regarding the non-hypothetical, i am very unimpressed by some people who recorded themselves making noise over every "ghost". These guys are literally recording balloon pops and long long silences, and none of the ghosts are in the silences? They have to have utter silence from everyone in the room as they do recordings for this purpose, and the ghosts are all in the parts where the recordists are moving things around or talking to each other?

That's a completely baseless and, frankly, silly thing to assume. Now you're filling in the blanks with your expectations of this phenomena actually relating to ghosts or demons, or the existence of some "other side." Disabuse yourself of these notions.

now you are just talking trash. Saying something is silly would actually require the opposing argument to be stated, so you need to explain how some being that resembled a demon or angel should never ever be called that, if said being were to exist. Otherwise, you are just flapping your gums (fingers).

Because officially classifying them as demons would be impossible, since we know demons are mythological beings.

no, this is the silly thing to say here. If something exists, and it fits at all the concept of these mythical beings, then saying they are not the mythical beings is a wild stretch. For example, lets say an inter-dimensional being somehow did exist, and it caused people fear and distress, and it never quite maintained a corporeal form. If you don't think people would have been calling this a demon, all throughout history, that is an intense bias. And then let's say there is this thing that fits a vague description of demons, and we don't know their purpose, all they do is hang around and scare people - to say this is not a demon is like saying a giant dinosaur in loch ness isn't the loch ness monster. Obviously it may also be a particular species of dinosaur (if there ever was anything in the lake), but it would still be the loch ness monster as well. You have created an excellent shield against understanding if you believe that a unicorn that was discovered would be renamed and couldn't be a unicorn, because unicorns are mythical creatures. What is that?

 

[Balerion]

i thought we were just supposing a hypothetical that some actual beings were evidenced.

No, I said nothing of "beings." What would have been the point of supposing that ghosts were real? I was talking about actual unexplained phenomena, were they to ever occur, would have no relation to modern concepts of the paranormal.

It looks like we got our signals crossed.

 

[wegs]

Hello Mazulu :wave: First, [just a point of clarification]--I’m not an atheist, rather I hold an agnostic view. Second…despite what we know about dark matter, why do you feel ‘’spirits’’ or ‘’ghosts’’ would consist of dark matter?

 

[cole grey]

We DO know how ghosts act. We have evps recording their words. We have full body manifestations of them matching deceased people in the past. We have the places they haunt, usually their home or place of death. It would be ignorant to say they aren't deceased persons when they appear for all intents and purposes to be exactly that.

you have stories people tell about things they have made. Like i just posted, in this article you linked, there are some short clips (none of which happen to be during the many many many times these recordists would have been absolutely silent). I am not saying these things cannot exist, but this evidence wouldn't even hold up in court, much less in a lab. If you played that for a judge, and said, "this is my evidence that my ex-girlfriend is stalking me, this is where she is singing in my bathroom while i was walking in the door", they would not accept it as worth anything.

Don't presume to tell me what to believe about a field I've been studying for 10 years now. The reason I believe in the paranormal is purely based on the evidence I've seen for it. Likewise I reject religion for its complete LACK of evidence. Noone's recording voices of God or Jesus on digital recorders in churches. There are no accounts of God appearing to people in a physical form. They can't even get the wine and the wafers to change their molecular composition. There is no more evidence for religion that there is for any other fantasy. The paranormal? A totally different matter.

i have yet to hear something that sounds convincing at all, and additionally, i could make you a ghost tape in ten minutes at my house. I understand you would like to say all these people wouldn't lie and have no reason to lie, but the guy who faked the famous bigfoot photo didn't really have any reason to lie did he? Anyway, i am not saying these beings, or something they are which fits a different explanation even better, don't exist, but you can't seriously expect someone to give ghosts credit, based on some recordings, unless there are decent recordings, which those clips are not. They are a bunch of noises posted by audio manipulation experts, and these experts would get fired from any job if they recorded anything for their work with talking and walking all over it.

We have recordings, photos, and videos of ghosts. You come up with a recording or photo of God and maybe I'll listen. And no, a tortilla with the shape of Jesus on it doesn't count.

there are at least as many stories told by people about the miracles they experienced as there are ghost stories, not that the stories prove anything.

No..We have thousands of investigations turning up typical characteristics of these beings that enable us to say they are at least deceased human consciousnessess. There are other cases with poltergeists that suggest something a little more--of tremendous psychic energy being manipulated by a ghost. One thing they are NOT is religious characters from a holy book of fables. When you come up with evidence that they are, let me know, ok?

they are whatever they resemble, if they exist, and for every person who sees a dead relative, there is a another person who saw an angel of death, or or an angelic being of light, instead. Ask mazulu. I sincerely hope you weren't knocking his alleged experience of seeing some spirit being, and then turning around saying these other spirit beings are seen thousands of times. That would just be too much.

Continuance after death doesn't entail either heaven or hell. The state as I pointed out is entirely different. The only state it remotely might be connected to is that of limbo, a quaint superstitious relic of the medieval Catholic Church. If you wanna twist it into some sort of confirmation of the Bible feel free to. But I refuse to do that. I'm going strictly by evidence here, not by the claims made by wishful thinkers.

first of all it would have to be confirmation to be used as confirmation. Any proof of existence beyond death would be a quantum leap scientifically, and without knowing where these beings go when they aren't still hanging around here, we would definitely have at least a reason to think they MIGHT be moving on to some further resting place. I have yet to see proof of god, or proof of ghosts, or proof of people's philosophical ideology either.

 

[cole grey]

No, I said nothing of "beings." What would have been the point of supposing that ghosts were real?

haha, i thought we were discussing a point about semantics, and using the ghost as a thought experiment.

I was talking about actual unexplained phenomena, were they to ever occur, would have no relation to modern concepts of the paranormal.

well, i think they COULD, but i certainly won't say that they WOULD, i am certainly not going to argue that. The thing i don't understand is how you can say, if there were some phenomena, they couldn't have any relation to existing concepts, i mean how do you know that, or how do you define things in such a way as to avoid even a possibility of that?