Sounds of ghosts from abandoned insane asylum

Magical Realist said:
They have some kind of lifeforce. I'd call them alive.
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How do you know?

Same with the paranormal. Investigators already know ghosts exist. The issue is pretty much settled with them. For them then it is finding them and producing better evidence. That's a firsthand knowledge that a scientist would be no help in providing.
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No, not the same at all. Even those who have had first-hand experience can't rule out delusion or misunderstanding. First-hand experience is notoriously unreliable.

God doesn't exist because there's no evidence for him. Have you seen any? I haven't.
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Of the type of thing you call evidence for the paranormal? Tons. Countless millions of people throughout history have claimed to speak personally with God. Moses supposedly carried down tablets writ by God himself. Have you never seen weeping statues of Mary? Have you never seen the virgin mother's relief magically appear in glass?

Everything you call evidence of the paranormal exists in spades for God.

Yes. A being with objective reality should be able to interact with us in physical reality in some way. This never happens with God. It's all subjective inner feelings. Nothing anyone can point to and say with certaintly "Here's God." That's why he doesn't exist.
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Incorrect. Many people have claimed to be healed by God. People claim certain weather events are orchestrated by God. Again, we've seen "evidence" in terms of statues affected, glass, even food items. People have claimed to be possessed by Satan and cleansed by God. Ever heard of stigmata?
 
@ Mazulu:

Why do you feel dark matter is connected to a possible "spirit/paranormal" world? (I'm looking for more of a scientific explanation, if you have one.)
 
wegs said:
@ Mazulu:
Why do you feel dark matter is connected to a possible "spirit/paranormal" world? (I'm looking for more of a scientific explanation, if you have one.)
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wegs,
If there were some kind of shadow matter, some kind of athereal substance that is very light weight and goes unnoticed by science, then perhaps we could have a spiritual realm, a spiritual ecosystem, spirit entities that occasionally interact with human beings, but largely go unnoticed, undetected. WIMPS, weakly interacting massive particles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weakly_interacting_massive_particles

If a spirit/paranormal world does exist, maybe it exists because dark matter forms another kind of charge that leads to another kind of chemistry. I don't know if does, I'm must speculating. Sorry I can't give you more.
 
Magical Realist said:
I think people can tell the difference between a broadcast of a local radio station and the whimperish talk of a little girl. Also many times the voices respond to direct questions. Besides that, some times the voices/conversations/sighs/moans can even be heard with the naked ear. There's no way THAT could be the Bob and Rob Show on KROK FM.
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Possibly but could they tell the difference if the broadcast was actually apart of their hoax setup? After all, you'd likely only need a type of Walkie talkie to interfere with a microphone in a room. (Many a time I've had police chatter over my loud speakers when squad cars or foot patrols were in close proximity, even when they weren't actually powered. One of the main reasons for them using "Radio silence" on raids)
 
Stryder said:
Possibly but could they tell the difference if the broadcast was actually apart of their hoax setup? After all, you'd likely only need a type of Walkie talkie to interfere with a microphone in a room. (Many a time I've had police chatter over my loud speakers when squad cars or foot patrols were in close proximity, even when they weren't actually powered. One of the main reasons for them using "Radio silence" on raids)
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How do you know they weren't ghosts of police in your stereo?
 
Mazulu said:
wegs,
If there were some kind of shadow matter, some kind of athereal substance that is very light weight and goes unnoticed by science, then perhaps we could have a spiritual realm, a spiritual ecosystem, spirit entities that occasionally interact with human beings, but largely go unnoticed, undetected. WIMPS, weakly interacting massive particles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weakly_interacting_massive_particles

If a spirit/paranormal world does exist, maybe it exists because dark matter forms another kind of charge that leads to another kind of chemistry. I don't know if does, I'm must speculating. Sorry I can't give you more.
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From the link:

''Because of their large mass, they would be relatively slow moving and therefore cold.''

:shh: Rumor has it that claimants of the paranormal have often reported a ‘chill’ in the air (a true drop in temperature, during their ghost encounters), indicating the possible presence of the paranormal. It’s Halloween and I’m so skeered, now. :=}}
 
Balerion said:
How do you know they weren't ghosts of police in your stereo?
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Well one was running passed my window after a burglar which was rather an interesting spectacle to watch (Nice to see them do a bit more than just push paperwork around and harass people driving)
But then again who's to say I'm not a ghost watching the world go by?
 
Stryder said:
Possibly but could they tell the difference if the broadcast was actually apart of their hoax setup? After all, you'd likely only need a type of Walkie talkie to interfere with a microphone in a room. (Many a time I've had police chatter over my loud speakers when squad cars or foot patrols were in close proximity, even when they weren't actually powered. One of the main reasons for them using "Radio silence" on raids)
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You can tell police chatter on a speaker from recorded evps. Police chatter is very distinct. Lot's of code numbers and a walkie talkie tone to it that gives it away. I've heard it on my stereo speakers. No mistaking it really..

To give people an idea of what a typical evp sounds like, listen to these. These feature a little girl. While I don't agree with every interpretation of what she is saying, it's pretty clear this isn't a radio station or a police walkie talkie. Note also the echoed quality of the voice. That suggests it is coming from inside the same room. If it was from another closed off room, it'd be muffled. We all know what muffled voices behind a wall sound like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF58wi6fbHs
 
Hey everybody! Balerion says there's PLENTY of video, photo, and audio evidence of God existing. lol! Let's see if he can post some of these for us.
 
Magical Realist said:
You can tell police chatter on a speaker from recorded evps. Police chatter is very distinct. Lot's of code numbers and a walkie talkie tone to it that gives it away. I've heard it on my stereo speakers. No mistaking it really..

To give people an idea of what a typical evp sounds like, listen to these. These feature a little girl. While I don't agree with every interpretation of what she is saying, it's pretty clear this isn't a radio station or a police walkie talkie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF58wi6fbHs
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You are still deliberately missing the point that EVP is Hoaxed either through powerful radio transmission or through editing on a computer and making it sound like whatever the posed investigator wants to hear.
 
Stryder said:
You are still deliberately missing the point that EVP is Hoaxed either through powerful radio transmission or through editing on a computer and making it sound like whatever the posed investigator wants to hear.
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Nope..No hoaxing. These people are honest believers in the paranormal. Why would they hoax voices they spend hundreds of hours trying to record? They wouldn't. Here's a guy that records voices from cemetaries. He's recorded over 500 evps over the years. Some are ClassA, meaning they are very clear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYJz-lk8YDk
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so basically, magical realist's position is that there are things we don't know, some fields are not approachable or fully supportable with scientific data. This is truly stranger than fiction and has a great deal to do with my points about people shirking empiricism at will for subjects or just particular instances, while supposing other people should have empirical data for the things these people do not approve of. I feel like i wasted my time discussing these points, when i could have just come here and had the same points made by MR. Not that i am a big believer in these types of magical occurrences, but if the paranormal occurrences actually exist it would be better evidence of demons and angels and life after death, since there is literally no reason to assume these occurrences would be something other than that. Why wouldn't these inter-dimensional beings be called demons and angels of death by almost any person who saw them prior to the quantum era? Is someone really going to get stuck on semantics regarding things we cannot explain, and say demons don't exist because they are really ghosts or inter-dimensional beings? Wow, just wow.

Nobody who believes in ghosts should be arguing against angels and demons or life after death, or God existing, based on lack of empirical data - that is too much.

I must have come into this thread with MR playing devil's advocate or something, it is merely an intellectual exercise right? I know that must be what is happening here.
 
cole grey said:
so basically, magical realist's position is that there are things we don't know, some fields are not approachable or fully supportable with scientific data.
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No. MR's position is that there is plenty of evidence for the existence of ghosts and spirits and all other types of fairytale BS he wishes were true. Everything he's submitted as evidence can be easily explained as something mundane--hoaxes, misunderstandings, etc--but MR is wholly uncritical and devoid of skepticism when it comes to the paranormal. This is because he wants to believe in it. It is his replacement for Christianity, which he renounced after a traumatic upbringing. As it turns out, it wasn't logic and reason that turned him away from God, it was his negative experience in organized religion. He's still deeply religious, just less organized about it.

Not that i am a big believer in these types of magical occurrences, but if the paranormal occurrences actually exist it would be better evidence of demons and angels and life after death, since there is literally no reason to assume these occurrences would be something other than that.
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That's ludicrous. Even if there were unexplained phenomena related to the supernatural, the assumption that it relates to mythology is entirely without basis.

Nobody who believes in ghosts should be arguing against angels and demons or life after death, or God existing, based on lack of empirical data - that is too much.

I must have come into this thread with MR playing devil's advocate or something, it is merely an intellectual exercise right? I know that must be what is happening here.
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He said earlier in this thread that there's no evidence for God because he doesn't exist. While I agree with that as a general statement, this seems to be his rationale for unbelief, which makes me think his lost faith has to do more with his bad experience growing up in Christianity than it does with any lack of evidence. You can see it in the double standard he applies: he believes every word of every claim made by a ghost-hunter or medium, but refuses to accept the same first-hand claims from people who attribute their experiences to God or Jesus. It has nothing to do with evidence or logic; it's about faith.
 
It's not Magical's ''replacement'' for Christianity. What? :confused:
 
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Why wouldn't these inter-dimensional beings be called demons and angels of death by almost any person who saw them prior to the quantum era? Is someone really going to get stuck on semantics regarding things we cannot explain, and say demons don't exist because they are really ghosts or inter-dimensional beings?
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So if an alien race of beings were detected living on another planet, should we assume they also correspond to our mythologies about what they are and how they look? Would you use the same logic and say an ET must be just like little green men or greys or Daleks because afterall its just semantics to deny they are these things? Ofcourse not. There is likewise absolutely no reason whatsoever that paranormal entities should correspond to any of the characters we have made up in our religions and storybooks. And indeed, they show none of the characteristics of theological superbeings. Ghosts show all the characteristics of deceased humans full of flaws and hangups that somehow got stuck in a state they can't get out of. This afterlife corresponds to nothing religion has taught us about heaven or hell. A world every bit as godless and unjust as the one we presently live in. Believing in this serves no religious or spiritual purpose whatsoever for me as I certainly don't look forward to such a chaotic and chancy afterlife. I take more comfort in not existing at all than in ending up as one of these half conscious dreaming phantoms chained to the treadmill of some past traumatic life. Death as endless sleep comforts me enough. I do not require anything more than that. I should be so lucky!
 
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