some questions regarding FREE WILL?
- Thread starter mustafhakofi
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So all this is predetermined by an omniscient quantum mechanic.
I have no free will... I have no will..... what I'm about to say is gentically unavoidable....I'm loosing interest.
I have no free will... I have no will..... what I'm about to say is gentically unavoidable....I'm loosing interest.
Billy T,
Actually I am quite familiar with quantum mechanics. I'm an engineer. To me the letters "QM" mean Quality Manager.
Light Travelling,
Have you heard any interesting songs about quantum mechanics lately? How about some cheerful songs about atheism?
Actually I am quite familiar with quantum mechanics. I'm an engineer. To me the letters "QM" mean Quality Manager.
Light Travelling,
Have you heard any interesting songs about quantum mechanics lately? How about some cheerful songs about atheism?
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Billy T said,
How does darwinism explain the beauty of music ( the language God uses for worship and adoration). Birds have no intellect, yet they sing a beautiful song to their creator. Do you have a better explanation for music, which I believe is God's gift.
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I can't know for sure; but I bet that singing to someone you would like to mate with had something to do with building this ability into our genes. That sure seems to be true of the birds you site. - Damage the vocal system of one, and he won't leave his genes in the next generation. I certainly don't need to postulate a God to explain that one. You will need to find something harder to press me with.Woody said:
I might also add that singing/ music in the act of worship is not universally thouth to be a desirable thing. In fact, some consider it sinful.
Not when I have set QM = Quantum Mechanics and then subsequently used QM in the same post to save typing. I am sure QM must stand for lots of things, so it must be defined with each use, as I did. In the circles I travel, many more people would correctly guess QM is "quantum mechanics" in any discusion of free will. Even if I had not explicitly defined it as such and sure that few intelligent people would assume it is "quality manager." - You are being foolish to insist that I can not save typing time because QM must mean Quality Managment (excuse me that should be "manager"Woody said:
Yes, I am making fun of you, but please take in good spirit (woops, there I go again "spirit" has meaning you probably won't let me use otherwise!) I am surprixed you did not take me to task for setting AP = Anthromorphic Principle when that is much less standard than Associated Press.
Billy T,
Who taught the first bird of a species how to sing? Why would it even matter to all the other birds of the same species that couldn't sing? Why do we as humans find it pleasant and relaxing to listen to, when we are not even thinking in sexual terms?
Quatam Mechanics does not explain the intangible things that go on in the human soul.
Who taught the first bird of a species how to sing? Why would it even matter to all the other birds of the same species that couldn't sing? Why do we as humans find it pleasant and relaxing to listen to, when we are not even thinking in sexual terms?
Quatam Mechanics does not explain the intangible things that go on in the human soul.
Woody said:
Most well informed scientists believe the dianosaurs slowing became birds, so I don't shair what I presume you believe that God made the first bird about 5000 years ago, in exactly its current form. None the less I will state that the bird's song slowing developed with the bird. There probably never was a generation that significantly differed for the prior one with respect to its song, going steadly back in time from the most beautiful (TO HUMANS) bird song to the skretch ( I am guessing about its sound) of the first dinosaur to have anything resembling feathers.
BTW, to some of the female dinosaurs, the skretch that some of the male dinosares made was more beautify (copulation inducing) than the skretch of some others, but probably the least talented was (TO DINOSAURES) much more beautifull than that terrible high pitched noise HUMANS and birds of the spiecies consider beautifull.
Beauty is in the ear of the listener as well as the eye of the beholder. Beauty is not absolute as you seem to think. Even in the limited field of music, I bet there is some (wild rap, etc. perhaps) that you consider disgusting yet they think it much better, more beautifull than that "classical trash" (as the rapper might put it) that I assume you like and consider beautifull.
Your last statement is a completely unsupported assertion, but I will admit it is a step forward from your prior quoting of the bible to "prove" your points. Lets try to move a little further towards logic by giving something that can pass for a reasoned argument, rather than just declaring your view to be fact. I will thank you if you can take this additional step.
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Billy T,
Music is medicine for the soul, and song the prescription. a freebe from me.
You become like the music you like to listen to.
By the way, don't assume I am limited on quantum mechanics. I've spent some time looking at it:
http://www.engr.psu.edu/antimatter/Papers/NASA_anti.pdf
What in the h**L does quantum mechanics have to do with a person's free will? Man you are way out there. How do you possibly make a logical connection between them? It sounds kookie.
All I gotta say is, if you can believe in a parallel universe, you can believe in anything. I don't want to debate that subject again "ad nauseum."
MW is living proof that antimatter exists! lol
That isn't love, it's lust. You both chose to sleep with each other. So what, any animal can do that.
Let me tell you what love is. It's helping your wife hold her head over the commode while she's puking her guts out. Love is caring for someone that nobody else would dare care about. Love is loving someone when they don't deserve it. It is a decision to be faithful -- that is what love is. It is not some sleezy romance come lately.
Music is medicine for the soul, and song the prescription. a freebe from me.
You become like the music you like to listen to.
By the way, don't assume I am limited on quantum mechanics. I've spent some time looking at it:
http://www.engr.psu.edu/antimatter/Papers/NASA_anti.pdf
What in the h**L does quantum mechanics have to do with a person's free will? Man you are way out there. How do you possibly make a logical connection between them? It sounds kookie.
All I gotta say is, if you can believe in a parallel universe, you can believe in anything. I don't want to debate that subject again "ad nauseum."
MW is living proof that antimatter exists! lol
That isn't love, it's lust. You both chose to sleep with each other. So what, any animal can do that.
Let me tell you what love is. It's helping your wife hold her head over the commode while she's puking her guts out. Love is caring for someone that nobody else would dare care about. Love is loving someone when they don't deserve it. It is a decision to be faithful -- that is what love is. It is not some sleezy romance come lately.
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I will only respond to part of your post. We are too far apart for sensible/ rational exchanges on the rest.
Most thoughtful, rational people, with some understanding of the change QM made to Classical Physics, CP, realize that QM is very related to the question of free will. Without QM or devine interference with CP, free will is logically impossible. LaPlace put this widely accepted idea forward well long ago, before QM was known. His defense of this view is more detailed and better than I can do here. If you don't believe this is the view of most people, rational Christians included, set up a pole.
I don't want to pass any judgement on your skill or experience with QM, but your assumption that QM stood for quality manager, caused me to think that perhaps you did not know anything about physics and QM. I am glad if this is not the case with you, but your failure to recognize any relationship between QM and "free will" makes me continue to wonder what you really understand about the "free will vs. determinism" question.
You hold some views so strongly by faith that I do not know what is reasonable to assume you will grant, so I ask:
1) If QM did not exist, i.e. if the universe were as LaPlace thought, completely deterministic, so that the smallest detail 1000 thousand years for now is already determined (but unknown and unpredictible becauces we lack commplete knowledge about the current state of every atom in the universe etc.) would you agree that free will is impossible?
I anticipate that you will say: "No, God created free will in man so he can freely chose between sin and salvation." so I will respond to this possible reply now:
If God is interviening in CP's laws every time anyone makes a free will choice, (even small ones like should I have made "every time" bold in this sentence.)something you could call "free will" might exist, but if CP were being violated zillions of times each second, CP would be nonsense, not any regular "law." That is, people's minute by minute lives would not be subject to the laws of CP, but under God's direct and detailed intervening with CP. If that were true, I do not see how you could speak of a "loving God" sending people that are living with a constantly changing set of the "rules for the life game", rather than the regular laws of CP, could justify senting anyone to Hell. If you were playing a game with me and I could (and did) change the rules very very frequently would you think it just when I announce "You go straight to hell, serious violation of he latest rule change."
2) You did not respond in any sensible way to my prior post asking if beauty in music was absolute, or "in the ear of the listener" as I put it in that post. So I ask: Is your beautiful music something all should agree is beautiful? Several times you have asserted the "beauty of music" is not explanable by Darwinian selection (despite my showing how your cited song bird's tunes probably slowly devloped from the "screeches" of the dinosaurs.)
If there are any dinosaurs reading: no offense intended, I agree that your songs were just as beautiful as those of his song birds.
Again: Do you think beauty is absolute?
3a) If "yes, it is absolute." Do you think beauty in musics is only possible as a gift of God, and thus "proves" his existance? (A lot of us agnostic are waiting on your reply to this one.)
3b) If "no, it is relative." I then ask what the "h**L" do prove by repeatly draging "beauty in musics" out as if it were the proof of anything?
4) Finally, you are also ignoring my direct quetion about the uniqueness of Earth in God's plans. Do you think there are many life forms on many other planets, each with free will? Will I get to met some in hell someday or does each go to its own exclusive heaven or hell? - Yes I know that is two question in one -I'll go straight to hell.(God just told me so - serious violation of the his latest modifications of CP "Laws."
OK with this statement of yours, I understand why in my earlier discussion of free will, even after I had defined QM = Quantum Mechanics, you assumed QM ment "quality manager."Woody said:
Most thoughtful, rational people, with some understanding of the change QM made to Classical Physics, CP, realize that QM is very related to the question of free will. Without QM or devine interference with CP, free will is logically impossible. LaPlace put this widely accepted idea forward well long ago, before QM was known. His defense of this view is more detailed and better than I can do here. If you don't believe this is the view of most people, rational Christians included, set up a pole.
I don't want to pass any judgement on your skill or experience with QM, but your assumption that QM stood for quality manager, caused me to think that perhaps you did not know anything about physics and QM. I am glad if this is not the case with you, but your failure to recognize any relationship between QM and "free will" makes me continue to wonder what you really understand about the "free will vs. determinism" question.
You hold some views so strongly by faith that I do not know what is reasonable to assume you will grant, so I ask:
1) If QM did not exist, i.e. if the universe were as LaPlace thought, completely deterministic, so that the smallest detail 1000 thousand years for now is already determined (but unknown and unpredictible becauces we lack commplete knowledge about the current state of every atom in the universe etc.) would you agree that free will is impossible?
I anticipate that you will say: "No, God created free will in man so he can freely chose between sin and salvation." so I will respond to this possible reply now:
If God is interviening in CP's laws every time anyone makes a free will choice, (even small ones like should I have made "every time" bold in this sentence.)something you could call "free will" might exist, but if CP were being violated zillions of times each second, CP would be nonsense, not any regular "law." That is, people's minute by minute lives would not be subject to the laws of CP, but under God's direct and detailed intervening with CP. If that were true, I do not see how you could speak of a "loving God" sending people that are living with a constantly changing set of the "rules for the life game", rather than the regular laws of CP, could justify senting anyone to Hell. If you were playing a game with me and I could (and did) change the rules very very frequently would you think it just when I announce "You go straight to hell, serious violation of he latest rule change."
2) You did not respond in any sensible way to my prior post asking if beauty in music was absolute, or "in the ear of the listener" as I put it in that post. So I ask: Is your beautiful music something all should agree is beautiful? Several times you have asserted the "beauty of music" is not explanable by Darwinian selection (despite my showing how your cited song bird's tunes probably slowly devloped from the "screeches" of the dinosaurs.)
If there are any dinosaurs reading: no offense intended, I agree that your songs were just as beautiful as those of his song birds.
Again: Do you think beauty is absolute?
3a) If "yes, it is absolute." Do you think beauty in musics is only possible as a gift of God, and thus "proves" his existance? (A lot of us agnostic are waiting on your reply to this one.)
3b) If "no, it is relative." I then ask what the "h**L" do prove by repeatly draging "beauty in musics" out as if it were the proof of anything?
4) Finally, you are also ignoring my direct quetion about the uniqueness of Earth in God's plans. Do you think there are many life forms on many other planets, each with free will? Will I get to met some in hell someday or does each go to its own exclusive heaven or hell? - Yes I know that is two question in one -I'll go straight to hell.(God just told me so - serious violation of the his latest modifications of CP "Laws."
Good, me neither. - I never said anything about "parallel universes." You should be glad I do find it hard to believe that with every QM observation a new universe arrises. If it did, and each had zillions of intelligent life forms with free will making only "sin or salvation" choices (not to mention trivial one like "bold or not bold") think how busy poor God would be intervening in CP if QM has nothing to do with free will as you clearly state.Woody said:
Just wondering: why exactly are you arguing so vehemently of something you have no belief in?
Christians believe God is all-knowing, but we (yes, we) also believe that God meant us to have free will; this in and of itself is a contradiction. If God is all-knowing, then he knows our next action, meaning we have no free will to change that action, and if we did, he would have known it anyway, so we were meant to do it. It is a vicious cycle, and we can't be sure if any of it is true.
Having free will or not has no correlation with the existence of a God, only of your view of what God should be.
Christians believe God is all-knowing, but we (yes, we) also believe that God meant us to have free will; this in and of itself is a contradiction. If God is all-knowing, then he knows our next action, meaning we have no free will to change that action, and if we did, he would have known it anyway, so we were meant to do it. It is a vicious cycle, and we can't be sure if any of it is true.
Having free will or not has no correlation with the existence of a God, only of your view of what God should be.
Billy T,
I think we need to start with definitions before we can hope to have an intelligent discussion:
Might I provide two definitions from the english dictionary:
quantum mechanics
Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
: a theory of matter that is based on the concept of the possession of wave properties by elementary particles, that affords a mathematical interpretation of the structure and interactions of matter on the basis of these properties, and that incorporates within it quantum theory and the uncertainty principle called also wave mechanics —quantum mechanical adjective —quantum mechanically adverb
I am familiar with this concept and I studied the finer nuances in college physics for engineers, and in nuclear engineering professional training.
free will
The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.
I ask myself," What does an inanimate subject like quantum mechanics have to do with the life choices made by human beings?"
Somehow, you fit this with Laplace, an athiestic mathematician that developed the Laplace transform equation. Any electrical engineer that wishes to call himself such, is very familiar with the laplace transform as a mathematical tool for control system theory. But laplace knew nothing about quantum mechanics.
I understand that chemicals affect the brain at the molecular level, but what does any of this have to do with me deciding to do something? Decisions are based on a belief system that involves the ABCs:
A) I know something is going to happen B) I feel the way I do because of the anticipated result C) I decide based on the anticipated result
Example: A) You know you are going to die someday B) There is nothing you can do about it C) fill in the blank__________
The human psychology model is Think -- Feel --Act. What does any of this have to do with quantum mechanics as defined in the science community?
I think we need to start with definitions before we can hope to have an intelligent discussion:
Might I provide two definitions from the english dictionary:
quantum mechanics
Function: noun plural but singular or plural in construction
: a theory of matter that is based on the concept of the possession of wave properties by elementary particles, that affords a mathematical interpretation of the structure and interactions of matter on the basis of these properties, and that incorporates within it quantum theory and the uncertainty principle called also wave mechanics —quantum mechanical adjective —quantum mechanically adverb
I am familiar with this concept and I studied the finer nuances in college physics for engineers, and in nuclear engineering professional training.
free will
The ability or discretion to choose; free choice: chose to remain behind of my own free will. The power of making free choices that are unconstrained by external circumstances or by an agency such as fate or divine will.
I ask myself," What does an inanimate subject like quantum mechanics have to do with the life choices made by human beings?"
Somehow, you fit this with Laplace, an athiestic mathematician that developed the Laplace transform equation. Any electrical engineer that wishes to call himself such, is very familiar with the laplace transform as a mathematical tool for control system theory. But laplace knew nothing about quantum mechanics.
I understand that chemicals affect the brain at the molecular level, but what does any of this have to do with me deciding to do something? Decisions are based on a belief system that involves the ABCs:
A) I know something is going to happen B) I feel the way I do because of the anticipated result C) I decide based on the anticipated result
Example: A) You know you are going to die someday B) There is nothing you can do about it C) fill in the blank__________
The human psychology model is Think -- Feel --Act. What does any of this have to do with quantum mechanics as defined in the science community?
you are so right, woody. but intelligence seems to be a foreign word to you.Woody said:
all this and more can be found on Wikipedia.com
Free will
Free will is the philosophical doctrine that holds that our choices are ultimately up to us. Conversely, an unfree action would be "up to" something else. The phrase "up to us" is vague, and, just like free will itself, admits of a variety of interpretations. Because of this vagueness, the usefulness of the concept of free will is questioned by some. Several logically independent questions can be asked about free will.
Determinism vs Indeterminism
Determinism holds that each state of affairs is necessitated (determined) by the states of affairs that preceded it. Indeterminism holds that determinism is false, and that there are events which are not entirely determined by previous states of affairs. The idea of determinism is sometimes illustrated by the story of Laplace's demon, who knows all the facts about the past and present and all the natural laws that govern our world, and uses this knowledge to foresee the future, down to every detail.
The science of free will
Throughout the history of science, attempts have been made to answer the question of free will using scientific principles. Early scientific thought often pictured the universe as deterministic, and some thinkers believed that it was simply a matter of gathering sufficient information to be able to predict future events with perfect accuracy. While not mechanistic in the same sense as classical physics, most current scientific theories are also deterministic, by necessity — it is a basic assumption of all scientific endeavors that the future can be predicted. It is also difficult, if not impossible, to write the mathematics for a non-predictive science.
Various interpretations of quantum mechanics may suggest that the universe, when viewed as a single system, is deterministic, as there is no outside entity capable of making observations, aside possibly from God. It is far from clear, however, that microscale interpretations of quantum mechanics can be applied to large systems in this way, and whether quantum mechanics ultimately describes a universe governed by laws of cause and effect or by chance is hotly debated both by physicists and philosophers of science.
the rest of this information can be found on Wikipedia.com.
Most people are not electrical engineers, but know that LaPlace is famous more for his comments about a determined future, (which any one with intelligence understands precludes free will). See the post below for someone else citing LapPlace. Your education on Philosophy seems to be limited to the Bible. Read other source as well. If you had, you would already know that LaPlace and Quantum Mechanics are very much relivant to any discussion of free will.Woody said:
Of course LaPlace knew nothing of QM; he died long before anyone did.
I will not waste time with you anymore. Others can, and probably will, try to make your understanding a little broader. I really have no other option. You ignored the four questions I asked in my last post. You never offer rational reasons/arguements. If any "reason/argument" is given, it is a quote from the Bible or a simple statement of "fact" you assert to be fact, even though it is obvious that I (and often others) do not accept your Christian based Doctrine as "facts".
"Good luck.
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Woody said:
music is all around us.the big bang was music.i'm very interested in this and why we like the sounds we do.a lot of musical likes and dislikes are simply cultural.indian classical music for example is not widely enjoyed in the west.to try to answer your question,i think animals developed vocal chords for communication but found out they could be used for recreation.i mean who taught the first person to use their hands to play gta3?human singing and music probably started way way back (and i am guessing a lot here) as some form of religious practise,mimicry of nature etc.
Thank you, but I did not mention (here) chaotic systems and certainly would never think that QM was required for chaos. Fractiles are purely mathematical and almost always good examples of chaos. (There are of course natural/real physical approximations of mathematical fractiles, for example the costline of a continent, which works down proximately as a fractile didtribute to the scale of your local beach cove.)kenworth said:
Even the epitome of a classical system, with a scale very far removed for any thing having to do with QM, i.e. the solar system, is chaotic if you take a really long view. (A very slight change in the miss distance of an asteroid passing a planet, will cause a very slight change in the planet's orbital velocity that after zillions of years will accumulate to make the planet 180 degrees different in its orbit position, not to mention all the accumulated changes that it indirectly made on the other "non miss planets"during these zillion of years by shifting the location of the "just missed planet" in its orbit. That is a change in the miss distance by a meter, will mess up all planets in the solar system! In truth, with the long view there probably is no physical system that is not chaotic!
A good example with shorter time scale is Earth's weather, some times called the butterfly effect - The extra flap of a butterfly's wings in China, can cause a huricane in Florida within months that would not have happened with one flap less, so the experts say.
But again thanks - your intent was good.
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Billy T,
Actually, Bill T, I am very advanced in this field. As a 5 or 6 year year old I was thinking about "determinism." The thing you called "QM" is nothing more than "determinism" or "fatalism."
An Example of a thought process I held when I was five or six years old:
o I made a choice
o I could not change my choice
o I only had one chance to choose
Therefore, I did not really have a choice to start with because choice involves more than one alternative, and either alternative I took was already predetermined. I could not go back and change it -- this would be "real choice" on my part. Hence I did not have a "real choice." Even if I could go back and change it, the new decision would also be "predetermined", therefore I was captured by fate even if I could control time. Hence "free choice" was impossible because of time, regardless of whether time was reversible.
Hence life was predetermined, I thought, and I was just a body in motion that could not control my fate. Hence the ultimate reality was nothing more than a past state event, and "the future" was just an illusion. This was my mind as a child. I thought this. And Laplace is supposed to be a genius because he thought of this at what age? Geez. He was a genius alright, but it was in the math field.
I was thinking in those terms and in the terms of force vectors as well. I'll match logic wits with you or anyone. I have yet to find my match, and I hope I do before my life is over. I am 52 years old and still patiently waiting, and I will be glad when I meet the person that can match logic wits with me.
I did not become a christian until I was 29. In my early 20s I went to a secular university where I took a basic philosopy course. I do remember something about QM now that you mention it, but it should not be confused with Physics. I think Determinism or Fatalism is the better nomenclature for your philosophy, as defined in the dictionary:
Main Entry: de·ter·min·ism
Pronunciation: di-'t&r-m&-"ni-z&m, dE-
Function: noun
1 a : a theory or doctrine that acts of the will, occurrences in nature, or social or psychological phenomena are causally determined by preceding events or natural laws b : a belief in predestination
Main Entry: fa·tal·ism
Pronunciation: -"i-z&m
Function: noun
: a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them; also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine
If you started out with determinism or fatalism instead of "QM", I would have known what you are talking about.
For you I have a few words of wisdom after pondering this subject for many years:
Life is like a movie: God knows the ending, and man writes the script.
You forget that God created time. He is not a captive to time. He knows what we are going to do before we do it, or he would not be God. Man still has the free-will to choose, but God already knows the next move, because God has already seen the movie and we are seeing it for the first time.
I hope you are not disappointed, but enlightened.
Actually, Bill T, I am very advanced in this field. As a 5 or 6 year year old I was thinking about "determinism." The thing you called "QM" is nothing more than "determinism" or "fatalism."
An Example of a thought process I held when I was five or six years old:
o I made a choice
o I could not change my choice
o I only had one chance to choose
Therefore, I did not really have a choice to start with because choice involves more than one alternative, and either alternative I took was already predetermined. I could not go back and change it -- this would be "real choice" on my part. Hence I did not have a "real choice." Even if I could go back and change it, the new decision would also be "predetermined", therefore I was captured by fate even if I could control time. Hence "free choice" was impossible because of time, regardless of whether time was reversible.
Hence life was predetermined, I thought, and I was just a body in motion that could not control my fate. Hence the ultimate reality was nothing more than a past state event, and "the future" was just an illusion. This was my mind as a child. I thought this. And Laplace is supposed to be a genius because he thought of this at what age? Geez. He was a genius alright, but it was in the math field.
I was thinking in those terms and in the terms of force vectors as well. I'll match logic wits with you or anyone. I have yet to find my match, and I hope I do before my life is over. I am 52 years old and still patiently waiting, and I will be glad when I meet the person that can match logic wits with me.
I did not become a christian until I was 29. In my early 20s I went to a secular university where I took a basic philosopy course. I do remember something about QM now that you mention it, but it should not be confused with Physics. I think Determinism or Fatalism is the better nomenclature for your philosophy, as defined in the dictionary:
Main Entry: de·ter·min·ism
Pronunciation: di-'t&r-m&-"ni-z&m, dE-
Function: noun
1 a : a theory or doctrine that acts of the will, occurrences in nature, or social or psychological phenomena are causally determined by preceding events or natural laws b : a belief in predestination
Main Entry: fa·tal·ism
Pronunciation: -"i-z&m
Function: noun
: a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them; also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine
If you started out with determinism or fatalism instead of "QM", I would have known what you are talking about.
For you I have a few words of wisdom after pondering this subject for many years:
Life is like a movie: God knows the ending, and man writes the script.
You forget that God created time. He is not a captive to time. He knows what we are going to do before we do it, or he would not be God. Man still has the free-will to choose, but God already knows the next move, because God has already seen the movie and we are seeing it for the first time.
I hope you are not disappointed, but enlightened.
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Woody said:Billy T,
Actually, Bill T, I am very advanced in this field. As a 5 or 6 year year old I was thinking about "determinism." The thing you called "QM" is nothing more than "determinism" or "fatalism."
Life is like a movie: God knows the ending, and man writes the script.
You forget that God created time. He is not a captive to time. He knows what we are going to do before we do it, or he would not be God. Man still has the free-will to choose, but God already knows the next move, because God has already seen the movie and we are seeing it for the first time.
I hope you are not disappointed, but enlightened.
i dont understand the relastionship between QM and determinism or fatalism,explain more please.who wrote the movie?god exists outside of time?