Right, I see what your saying.
But here's my point. God has unlimited power. If he wanted to, he could get rid of hell or the Lake of Fire, and he could choose to simply not allow sinners into eternal paradise and let them continue in this physical, suffering type realm for as long as they want. Then, when they choose to, they can shape up and have faith in God and love him.
It seems pretty unfair, and cruel, to torture these people for eternity if they chose not to live in eternal paradise, wouldn't you say? Wouldn't it be more fair to, instead of torturing them forever and ever, to simply not allow them into the kingdom and make them continue to live on earth in a different body?
Or do you think an eternal lake of fire is the answer?
I would appreciate a definition for sin as well, because everyone seems to have a different view and I would like to hear yours. It would give me another perspective to look at. You make good points in terms of free will and consequences, and I would like to hear your definition of sin. Thank you.
By the way, I do agree with you on free will in terms of us having full ability to choose.
P.S. - would you, Lori, ever allow someone to be tortured forever? Let's say someone murdered your entire family and left you alive. Would you really wish that person to be tortured for eternity, in constant horrifying pain? How could you live with yourself, knowing that you have the power to stop the torture?
In my view, very few humans would wish torture for eternity on someone. It would cause too much guilt and sorrow. It's hard for me to believe God is less compassionate than humans.
Also, if God is really the ultimate "forgiver," then how does torturing people show any forgiveness whatsoever?
well, this is strange. it's a good day to talk about torture i suppose. i wrote this poem right before i came out here and read your post. and i'm feeling it.
no dead ends
every day in agony
every day in futility
finding ways not to be me
can't escape what i can't be
let me out of this misery
i simply wish to cease to be
it's all i ever felt was for me
and you tell me that you love me
i hate this world and i hate this life. i hate the way we spend our time. we're slaves to sin, slaves to greed, slaves to capitalism, slaves to bankers and politicians and institutions. we're slaves to our own bodies. all day long every day we're either making a mess or cleaning one up. i damn well better be learning something. i feel like i'm being tortured. i feel like i'm in hell. and i've got it good (relatively) i think. i want to change so much. i long for it so much. but i can't do it on my own. i feel like i'm trapped in a world and a body that i can't escape from. there is no escape. and it just goes on and on and on. it doesn't stop. it just keeps getting worse. we are creating a hell. we are in hell. and i want out. it's torture to be given a paradise and to not be able to enjoy it. it's torture to be given a paradise and every day watch it being destroyed. to be forced to participate in it's destruction. to have no choice because there's no better way offered. no better way known. but i'm learning. and the more i learn the more i hate this world and the more i want out of it. i don't want to live this way anymore. i'm sorry.
jesus is the only way out of this marred existence. i don't understand how it will happen exactly, but i know that he is the way, the truth, and the light...
this is my attempt at defining sin. i wrote it a couple of pages back, but you must have missed it...
sin is like a birth defect right now for all of us. it's a condition. and it's also an act. but in our case right now, it's a condition that leads us to act. if i'm not mistaken, sin is any transgression of his perfect law. his law is perfect in that if applied, it creates a perfect balance and equilbrium in the universe. it eliminates death. so sin must be anything that causes death in the universe.
i honestly believe that somehow through christ we will all be changed so that we don't have this birth defect anymore. i think it has to do with his blood. i think it's genetic, and i think it will undo whatever was done when man fell in the garden. i also think that this world will be virtually destroyed, and we will start over, with new bodies, with his blood in them, and with knowledge that will keep us from ever wanting to go back. knowledge that we attained here.
and no, i would not wish for anyone to be tortured. not even a murder, or a child molester. but do you see that their actions leave us no choice by law? wouldn't you consider locking someone up in a prison cell to be some form of torture? i would. and yet what are our options? to allow them the freedom to kill again? to not protect our children? what is the answer? do you agree that it's their own choices that led them to this torture in the first place? so regarding the topic of eternal life, and given my definition of sin, you can see how there must be segregation. in a perfect world, any transgression of the law would allow death to enter and eternal life would be thwarted...again. to ensure a perfect and eternal life in it, everyone must be willing to follow god's law at all times without exception. right now i honestly believe, based on my own experience, that it is not possible to do this. but i believe in a way, and jesus is the way. i know it. things that i have been shown and experienced have solidified this belief in me. i believe that god will show everyone what i have seen. i believe that he will lay all the cards on the table, and that he'll level the playing field so to speak. and the people today who think they own him, will not own him anymore. and in light of this new knowledge, there will still be those who do not want to know. who do not care. who do not want to change. who do not feel tortured by this existence like i do, or apparently like being tortured, which i do not. these are the people who will stay. and i have already pointed out, and it's obvious, the environment they perpetuate.
ditto
