Some facts about guns in the US

billvon said:
We have that now; hasn't worked. Felons cannot own guns.
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because people like you argue for loopholes that allow them to get guns.
If you commit a violent crime with a gun the police take the gun and you don't get it back. (You don't lose all your guns until convicted because of that "innocent until proven guilty" thing but there might be some leeway there, as a condition of parole for example.)
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and that's problem look at zimmerman. he got away with murder. and than continued to commit crimes with his guns. and yet he still allowed to have them.

and i didn't say commit a violent crime with a gun i said commit a violent crime in general. with or without a gun. the moment you have shown any sort of violent tendencies you don't get to have a gun. that's the way it needs to be.
 
Gia Soriano Is Dead

We are still attempting to tally the damage at Marysville-Pilchuck High School.

A freshman girl shot by a classmate at Marysville-Pilchuck High School has died at Providence Regional Medical Center Everett.

Gia Soriano, 14, died at about 9:30 p.m. Sunday, hospital officials announced at a news conference.

(Sullivan and Lacitis (↗))​

The count as of today:

• Dead:
―Zoe Galasso, 14
―Gia Soriano, 14
―Jaylen Fryberg, 15 (self-inflicted)​
• Wounded:
―Shaylee Chuckulnaskit, 14
―Nate Hatch, 14
―Andrew Fryberg, 15​

As circumstance has it, the two young men wounded in this rampage are cousins to the shooter (↗).

"All three of the boys, they're like triplets. They were inseparable." ―Paula Hatch Satiacum (↗)​

While it is apparently a matter of evidence, now, that the .40 caliber handgun Jaylen Fryberg used in the attack was registered to his father, begs a question: How did the young man obtain this weapon?

Easy access? Perhaps. And to a certain degree it is easy to comprehend: It's never supposed to be our happy, recently elected homecoming prince of a son who is supposed to be looking forward to a life of community prestige and leadership.

These things happen.

You're not supposed to see them coming; that's part of the problem.

We need not indict the Fyberg family; the law either will or won't according to the inclinations of those enforcing it. And in a country where the idea that one has suffered enough means one wouldn't be charged for shooting a seven-year old son to death with an illegally-possessed handgun and apparently for the sake of negligence, it's hard to see how we can hold a responsible gun owner accountable for allowing his firearm to be used in a murder.

And that will be a painful issue for this community. But the worst possible thing that could happen now is that we learn nothing going forward.

This shooting, ostensibly, was about a girl. And that comes on the heels of a local terror threat against women. Hello? There is an issue here.

Bomb threat, mass shooting, and, yes, now a new mass shooting threat. How has mortal violence and the threat thereof become so frequent a goal? Yes, there is an issue here, too.

Why is it so easy for one intending to murder others to get hold of someone else's gun? Yes, this is an issue.

And it would seem all of these questions need substantive answers in order to comprehend what has happened. It is easy enough to say we need to change course, but that does not actually mean much until we can identify the course we're on, the course we want to be on, and the relationship between those concepts.

Meanwhile, Gia Soriano is dead. So is Zoe Galasso. And, yes, so is Jaylen Fryberg.

Absolutely none of this had to happen.

So are we going to try to figure this out? Or are these lives yet another toll paid for the privilege of going nowhere?
____________________

Notes:

Sullivan, Jennifer and Erik Lacitis. "Marysville girl shot by classmate dies Sunday night in Everett". The Seattle Times. October 26, 2014. SeattleTimes.com. October 27, 2014. http://blogs.seattletimes.com/today...lchuck-shooting-victims-3-critical-1-serious/

Aradillas, Elaine. "Jaylen Fryberg Targeted His Best Friends During Shooting at Marysville-Pilchuck High School". People. October 26, 2014. People.com. October 27, 2014. http://www.people.com/article/marysville-pilchuck-school-shooter-friends-cousins

KOMO Staff. "Green River Community College on lockdown after threat". KOMO News. October 27, 2014. KOMOnews.com. October 27, 2014. http://www.komonews.com/news/local/...llege-on-lockdown-after-threat-280548162.html​
 
pjdude1219 said:
because people like you argue for loopholes that allow them to get guns.
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No, I don't. I think felons should permanently lose their right to own weapons.

and i didn't say commit a violent crime with a gun i said commit a violent crime in general. with or without a gun. the moment you have shown any sort of violent tendencies you don't get to have a gun. that's the way it needs to be.
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Also agreed. Once you commit a violent crime you should lose your right to own guns.
 
billvon said:
No, I don't. I think felons should permanently lose their right to own weapons.


Also agreed. Once you commit a violent crime you should lose your right to own guns.
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than why are you arguing against the people who want to ensure that happens
 
Education in America

The new public education: I majored in trauma medicine, minored in duck and cover. Thankfully I made it to graduation. Now, on to high school.

Oh, and Australia was May, 2012, but nobody died so ... right. April, 2003, before that. But you know the rules, James. It's happened once, which means Australia can't say jack about the U.S. on this count, or something.

Sorry, American political custom; you're not perfect, so you don't get to say anything about our imperfection. Or something like that. Personally, I never understood the concept in any manner that might foresee useful practical application, but it's also something of a prevailing custom. Example: Scott Brown hits Jeanne Shaheen on border security, touts his time on the committee; turns out he never attended any of the committee meetings on border security, so now the idea of ever missing any committee meetings is in play. Was even funnier, though, when NC state Rep. Thom Tillis (R) went after Sen. Kay Hagan (D), and accused her of skipping meetings for a committee she wasn't even on.

At any rate, though, the lack of data about Australia's myriad mass shootings is probably a conspiracy, because my gun-loving American neighbors say your nation's policies can only lead to increases in gun crime. And, you know, they're Americans. And they have guns. So that means they're right.
 
I just think that we need to stop the whole crazy train of "abolish guns" and start with "lets control who is actually buying guns" first
 
Kittamaru said:
I just think that we need to stop the whole crazy train of "abolish guns" and start with "lets control who is actually buying guns" first
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The manufacturers sell their weapons to wholesale outlets. Those businesses sell them to the public. So if we put a stop to the manufacturers that would prevent anyone buying their products except the military.
 
Tiassa said:
The count as of today:

• Dead:
―Zoe Galasso, 14
―Gia Soriano, 14
―Jaylen Fryberg, 15 (self-inflicted)​
• Wounded:
―Shaylee Chuckulnaskit, 14
―Nate Hatch, 14
―Andrew Fryberg, 15​
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As of today..


• Dead:
―Zoe Galasso, 14
―Gia Soriano, 14
―Jaylen Fryberg, 15 (self-inflicted)
―Shaylee Chuckulnaskit, 14​
• Wounded:
―Nate Hatch, 14
―Andrew Fryberg, 15
​

Shaylee Chuckulnaskit passed away from her injuries late Friday evening. She was 14 years of age.

Andrew Fryberg remains in a critical condition, while Nate Hatch has been upgraded to a satisfactory condition.
 
Kittamaru said:
I just think that we need to stop the whole crazy train of "abolish guns" and start with "lets control who is actually buying guns" first
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Are we actually still on it?

In truth, man, I hear that bit from firearms owners a lot, and most days they're the only ones actually saying anything about abolishing guns.

But I will make this point, because it needs to be made: That way doesn't work, either. Remember that this is so important to people that there are gun owners out there demanding that stalkers' gun-owning rights are protected.

And if you happen to think that maybe some of the most dangerous criminals on record shouldn't be legally allowed to own firearms, you're a foul authoritarian git. A gun owner told me so. And, you know, he's a gun owner, so he's right.
 
Bells said:
Y
When you actually look at the facts and figures, it isn't hard to understand why so many feminists push for tighter gun control measures.
...
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Given that men are most commonly the victims of violent assaults, I'd argue that there is far more at play here than a simple safety issue. Indeed, it's not unheard of for 'abused' women to shoot their 'abusive' husbands, usually in the back or when they are asleep, so I don't think all of these feminists are against gun ownership.

Are you talking about feminists here, or how you view the gun as an extension of your penis? Because you seem to have put quite a bit of thought about how a gun is an extension of your penis.
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And there you go, assuming that I am male. I disagreed with you and postulated that many feminists suffer from penis envy, and suddenly I'm one of those big bad men with size issues. Personally, I don't regard a gun as a phallic object, but I could see how feminists with an inferiority complex might.
 
tali89 said:
Given that men are most commonly the victims of violent assaults, I'd argue that there is far more at play here than a simple safety issue. Indeed, it's not unheard of for 'abused' women to shoot their 'abusive' husbands, usually in the back or when they are asleep, so I don't think all of these feminists are against gun ownership.
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There have been 74 shootings at schools across the U.S. since the Sandy Hook massacre in December 2012, according to Everytown For Gun Safety—which, astoundingly, the pro-gun side claims is an inflated figure. As headline-grabbing as school shootings are, the under-reported daily target and toll from gun violence involves women. More American women have been murdered by their intimate partners using guns since 2001 (6,410) than U.S. troops have been killed in combat (5,315) in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, the Center for American Progress reports. Guns are involved in at least 34 percent of all murders of women commited by their partners, an average of five a day, CAP found from crime statistics.​

I don't think it is something that should be dismissed..

And there you go, assuming that I am male. I disagreed with you and postulated that many feminists suffer from penis envy, and suddenly I'm one of those big bad men with size issues. Personally, I don't regard a gun as a phallic object, but I could see how feminists with an inferiority complex might.
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How do you figure that? Perhaps you are a woman who thinks your gun is an extension or like a penis. It is not something that ever really entered my mind until you brought it up with such detail.

But it brings up an interesting point..

NRA News host Cam Edwards provided a platform for a guest to push a sexist attack against prominent gun safety advocate Shannon Watts in which the guest called Watts a "shrill harridan" and said she "stripped the most basic and threshold abilities of a man" from her husband.

On the October 9 edition of the NRA's radio show Cam & Company, guest and conservative columnist Kurt Schlichter claimed that Watts, who founded gun safety group Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, had stripped her husband "of the most basic and threshold abilities of a man; that is to defend his self, his family and his community, by being married to this shrill harridan."​


I guess it's the NRA who are the feminists who view the gun as what makes a man a 'real man'...

Thank you so much for pointing this out tali89. I would never have even bothered to consider that the NRA and its members view the gun as being what makes a man 'a man' and that they view gun control measures as emasculating men. You just opened up a whole new side and veritable gold mine of gun nuts and their bizarre obsessions about guns. I am really grateful that you pointed me in that direction.:D
 
I just think that we need to stop the whole crazy train of "abolish guns" and start with "lets control who is actually buying guns" first
Are we actually still on it?

In truth, man, I hear that bit from firearms owners a lot, and most days they're the only ones actually saying anything about abolishing guns
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Anyone who brings in suicide stats, domestic violence stats, the public health perspective, accidents involving children, and the like, is talking about making guns unavailable in private homes.

So how does that work?
 
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