Sociopaths

[birch]

Borderlines are in an extreme amount of distress all the time...when they stop being in extreme distress they start empathizing.

borderlines, bipolars and schizophrenics can still empathize with others even when they are in distress. it's just that their distress is taking a toil on them. empathy is really not the issue here or that related either.

A sociopath just won't empathize-they are a universe of one...although there's a matter of degree. some empathize with their friends and family, but are completely ruthless with outsiders.

that depends on the sociopath. some empathize with friends and family and outsiders doesn't necessarily mean just people they don't know. they feel people out just like anybody else and decide who is friend or foe or prey. they just are unethical assholes about it.

having lived with sociopaths, you learn quite a lot. sociopaths tend to befriend other sociopaths. not surprising as of course they would associate with or see as equals those like them and with the same values. contrary to popular opinion, sociopaths do have friends and those they identify with. these people can rape you one minute and act like nothing happened like it was a sunday walk in the park with their friends. they can do something horrendously brutal and act calm the next or act like nothing happened in front of others. in their mind nothing really did as they aren't hurting so why would they show signs of guilt that would tip anyone off. they are not repulsed by their actions no matter how vile it is and can be exceedingly depraved. this is because they pour all that onto their victim. sociopaths don't take personal responsibility. the ugliness in themselves is projected onto their victim. the worst and most heinous scenario is when one is trying to pour their depravity onto someone more innocent. they 'purge' themselves onto their victim rather than fixing themselves or changing. if they did that, then they wouldn't be taking advantage of others which they don't want to stop doing. it's like a dirty secret of getting without earning or a perk. they take the easiest and degenerate route which is ruining others to lift themselves up or using others. this is how they get their satisfaction. they are a lot like parasites in a way as they will use and abuse their victim no holds barred. that's how sociopaths are. they will also treat their victim like they have nothing to be upset about. sociopaths show no signs of "guilt", this is also how they are undetected. good people can't fathom how one could commit such horrendous acts without showing signs of monstrosity in public or some sort of guilt to detect them. society tends to weigh in on the victim, rather than the perpetrator because the victim is going to be showing more signs of distress, lower self-esteem and the negative effects as well as injure them more. they see the victim as guilty which is atrocious. fucked up but true. society is cruel.

from observing the ones that i've lived with and also their 'associates' i know a lot about this damn subject. unfortunately but maybe it will help others or shed light on it some.

Ethics ...well, I guess at least my version of it, comes from empathizing with others. Basically if you empathize with others, you tend not to run around hurting them.

Obviously more complicated than that, but that's the basis of ethics in my view-I don't want to cause suffering....so....

yes and no. remember that even sociopaths can empathize, it's just that's the problem. they ONLY empathize with those they care about and not with those they don't. they only empathize with those they care about because it stems from narcissism. but empathy is really not the major problem as one doesn't need a lot of empathy to behave ethically in general. you don't have to have an outpouring of empathy every moment of the day. sociopaths do things intentionally, not just out of an occasional lack of empathy or insensitivity or oversight. they override empathy and their victim's boundaries to dehumanize while demanding their own boundaries be respected. empathy or lack of it has got nothing to do with it for them when they are hurting someone.

empathy is part of ethics but in general ethics is a sense of humanity or an admittance that others do have rights just as yourself and respect for others, even those who you don't know or care for personally.

 

[chimpkin]

empathy is really not the major problem as one doesn't need a lot of empathy to behave ethically in general.

*scratches head* Meh, must just be me then...

these people can rape you one minute and act like nothing happened like it was a sunday walk in the park with their friends.

Have always wondered how that worked, myself, because it's not something I'm either capable of or interested in doing-wrecking a life in ten minutes or less.
Even having had it happen to me, the motives behind it just don't seem that fathomable. I suppose it's because I don't feel I've gained anything when I've made someone lose something...I hate to put anyone in a one-down position, even, in normal social interactions. I like to build people up.

That's why I think of ethics as based on empathy-because I'd never get over myself for doing something so wantonly awful to someone, or even that awful by sheer accident-say, accidentally running someone over in my car.

empathy or lack of it has got nothing to do with it for them when they are hurting someone.

Interesting...that they empathize with their victims and shut it off. I just figured that they failed to empathize at all.
Maybe I'll end up doing my grad thesis on it or something...

society tends to weigh in on the victim, rather than the perpetrator because the victim is going to be showing more signs of distress, lower self-esteem and the effects as well as injure them more. they see the victim as guilty.

Haven't had that one happen to me personally, but it's a pretty common phenomenon, yeah...and even more fun, the victim often blames themselves.

 

[birch]

That's why I think of ethics as based on empathy-because I'd never get over myself for doing something so wantonly awful to someone, or even that awful by sheer accident-say, accidentally running someone over in my car.


Interesting...that they empathize with their victims and shut it off. I just figured that they failed to empathize at all.
Maybe I'll end up doing my grad thesis on it or something...

what i mean is if you can't personally empathize with someone, is that going to stop you from being ethical to them? to a sociopath it would because their empathy is extended only to those they deem deserve rights or humanity or mirror themselves. there really is no way to empathize with everyone but that doesn't mean you can't be ethical.

Haven't had that one happen to me personally, but it's a pretty common phenomenon, yeah...and even more fun, the victim often blames themselves.

its from self-loathing. at least it is a sign that they want to change something that isn't good within themselves even if that was not their fault but from another's deeds. these victims usually will be the ones to stop the cycle even if it's unfair that they have to do all the inner work. sociopaths don't loathe what is depraved or evil in themselves, they just pass it on. they are so bad that if they did something evil or something with consequences, they would want another to pay the price instead of them. they are downright cheaters in life. i must say they really are a fucking piss-poor excuse for life.

 

[chimpkin]

what i mean is if you can't personally empathize with someone, is that going to stop you from being ethical to them?(highlighting mine) to a sociopath it would because their empathy is extended only to those they deem deserve rights or humanity or mirror themselves. there really is no way to empathize with everyone but that doesn't mean you can't be ethical.

I generally empathize with most of the people I directly interact with, and if someone gets on my nerves, I try to counter that by empathizing with them-trying to see things from their point of view, and viewing them sympathetically.
But ultimately, I find that I often do to others what would please me unless I know it wouldn't please them in specific...sometimes this bites me in the ass.

That statement I highlighted, though...that's typical of not only a lot of people, but most cultures...

Groups that one is attacking or is going to attack are psychologically transformed to less-than-human.

This website here:http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html ( Kind of a neat page)
lists sociopathic traits, one of which is:

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

I also will include the following ancillaries from the same page:

11.Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12.Incapable of real human attachment to another
13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt

Here's a page of interest as well: http://www.sociopathworld.com/p/portrait-of-sociopath.html

Longitudinal studies have shown that the personality traits associated with psychopathy are highly stable over time. Early warning signs including “callous-unemotional traits” and antisocial behaviour can be identified in childhood and are highly predictive of future psychopathy....
In one study, over 80% of the variation in the callous-unemotional trait across the population was due to genetic differences...

 

[birch]

I generally empathize with most of the people I directly interact with, and if someone gets on my nerves, I try to counter that by empathizing with them-trying to see things from their point of view, and viewing them sympathetically.
But ultimately, I find that I often do to others what would please me unless I know it wouldn't please them in specific...sometimes this bites me in the ass.

That statement I highlighted, though...that's typical of not only a lot of people, but most cultures...

Groups that one is attacking or is going to attack are psychologically transformed to less-than-human.

This website here:http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html ( Kind of a neat page)
lists sociopathic traits, one of which is:



I also will include the following ancillaries from the same page:



Here's a page of interest as well: http://www.sociopathworld.com/p/portrait-of-sociopath.html

i would agree with all of them except for real human attachment to another and unable to feel remorse.

sociopaths can feel human attachment to others who they choose to and they can feel remorse for things done to hurt those they care for. as for 'real' human attachment, that would be a qualitative and subjective measure. we've all met people that we don't feel are understanding or humane enough or rub us the wrong way yet they find people who are similar to them etc. people's qualitative energies can differ quite a bit but they find their own 'like'.

the thing is i really seriously doubt that currently the mental health sector is fully aware of the types of sociopaths out there. i know this because one of the worst types are not the ones they usually profile. this may change in the future but it is kind of frightening that there are sociopaths that are not on their radar as of yet.

there are different levels of sociopathy but the worst ones use mental terrorism, mind games, and they even try to manipulate and program their victims to be self-defeating as well as 'feed' off of them. they don't want to physically murder someone as that would get rid of the victim. they want you alive to use. some will combine that with physical abuse, verbal abuse etc but that is not the worst of it. it is their manipulation and perversion of your life. they can be really adept at it and rather complex. they will completely destroy your life where you feel like they put you in the twilight zone of some dark, cold and sinister hell. they are extremely and even frighteningly dark-hearted in secret but they can have an outward air of respectibility. the ones i'm familiar with tend to have a rather cold energy though if you are more perceptive to pick it up. a good euphemism would be likening it to satan archetype. cold and superficial glamour with an act of compassion that hides a dangerous and hideous snake in the grass.

most mental health professionals are going to be more familiar with psycopaths such as murderers such as serial killers as their textbook sociopath/psycopath but they are not the most "insidious" ones.

it's kind of like hackers, we know of the ones that get caught but the most successful hackers do not get caught so we don't know about them except for those who know them.

 

[chimpkin]

Sorry for double-posting...but I found this in regard to the brains of sociopaths(again, uses the term psychopaths): http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/9861.html

Fewer than half of both the control subjects and the “successful” psychopaths had an asymmetrical hippocampus.

Ninety-four percent of the unsuccessful psychopaths had that same abnormality, with the right side of the hippocampus larger than the left.

“There’s faulty wiring going on in psychopaths. They’re wired differently than other people,” Raine said.

He found that the psychopaths’ corpus callosums were an average of 23 percent larger and 7 percent longer than the control groups’.

“The corpus callosum is bigger, but it’s also thinner. That suggests that it developed abnormally,” Raine said.

With an increased corpus callosum came less remorse, fewer emotions and less social connectedness - the classic hallmarks of a psychopath, he said.

So there have been detectable structural differences found.

the thing is i really seriously doubt that currently the mental health sector is fully aware of the types of sociopaths out there. i know this because one of the worst types are not the ones they usually profile.

Since the list of attributes includes a lack of impulse control...I strongly suspect there's selection bias going on there in spades.
The less-impulsive ones...no, they aren't going to often end up being studied.
But the mental-health people do get to make repairs on the damage these people wreak...so they do know of their existence, even if they don't have detailed workups.

I think the thing about their attachments, when they say they are shallow...what they mean is that the sociopath can shut those attachments on and off like a light switch.
Most of us can't do that.

 

[birch]

Sorry for double-posting...but I found this in regard to the brains of sociopaths(again, uses the term psychopaths): http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/9861.html



So there have been detectable structural differences found.

With an increased corpus callosum came less remorse, fewer emotions and less social connectedness - the classic hallmarks of a psychopath, he said.

that says psycopaths, not necessarily sociopaths. sociopaths do not have fewer emotions or at least what is considered fewer emotions and they don't have less social connectedness.

psycopaths are dangerous because they are insane. sociopaths are dangerous because they know people well but for the worst motives.

pick your poison because both are very bad news. psycopath would probably out your life, a sociopath would enjoy inflicting excruciating pain or misery and drawing it out. the worst ones would do so in ways that can't be dealt with by the law which makes these sociopaths extremely manipulative. how can you prosecute someone for mental and emotional terrorism? pretty difficult to do or present what would be considered evidence. sociopaths 'know' this.

I think the thing about their attachments, when they say they are shallow...what they mean is that the sociopath can shut those attachments on and off like a light switch.
Most of us can't do that.

you misunderstand. sociopaths do not do this, they don't need to. they know who they are going to victimize or who they consider prey.

they have thier attachments to those they wouldn't victimize and leave them unbothered.

 

[chimpkin]

The study pool there was from a bunch of guys at a temp agency...so when the article says psychopaths, I'm assuming they're being fuzzy on their terminology again, because these were reasonably functional men.

See, the terminology was morphed by the people who write it.

According to the wikipedia page(may or may not be entirely accurate) the terminology changed in the 80's from Psychopath to Antisocial Personality Disorder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

Again, rolling the dice on wikipedia's accuracy:

In the preface to the fifth edition of The Mask of Sanity, Cleckly stated, "... revisions of the nomenclature have been made by the American Psychiatric Association. The classification of psychopathic personality was changed to that of sociopathic personality in 1958", suggesting that he did not recognize any difference between the conditions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder#Sociopathy

So psychopath, sociopath and antisocial personality disorder seem to describe either very similar or the same basic type of personality, and have been interchanged over time by the pros who write the terms...which makes it more confusing.

Someone who was" psychopathic " your terminology-I'd be more likely to describe as "sociopathic with paranoid ideation, poor impulse control, and violent tendencies" or some such.

You say po TAY to, I say po TAH to...

Either way, I'd say the above person is a real piece of work and I'd stay the hell away from them without large burly assistance.

 

[birch]

Either way, I'd say the above person is a real piece of work and I'd stay the hell away from them without large burly assistance.

"burly" assistance isn't going to help with stopping a sociopath. sociopaths work on manipulation. there are different way to overpower another besides physical force, though they may use that as well but it's still not the primary motive. i think this is where the distinction, though both can have interchanging attributes in common, is between the psychopath and sociopath. sociopaths are much more interested in manipulating the person's mind and emotions whereas the psycopath may not be as much or aware of it. psycopaths are acting out their ideation with little awareness of what goes on with the victim. sociopaths definitely do though.

also a psychopath because they are less social would stick out more in society whereas a sociopath uses society to blend in. though, of course, a person can have a combination of traits just like one can have more than one disorder. there is no one exact set or template of traits or formula.

 

[birch]

Sorry for double-posting...but I found this in regard to the brains of sociopaths(again, uses the term psychopaths): http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/9861.html



So there have been detectable structural differences found.



Since the list of attributes includes a lack of impulse control...I strongly suspect there's selection bias going on there in spades.
The less-impulsive ones...no, they aren't going to often end up being studied.
But the mental-health people do get to make repairs on the damage these people wreak...so they do know of their existence, even if they don't have detailed workups.

there have also been serial killers which autopsy have shown normal brains as well.

think about it, there are lots of people with poor impulse control. they may not kill people but maybe they are impulsive eaters, shoppers, drinkers, smokers, gamblers etc.

I generally empathize with most of the people I directly interact with, and if someone gets on my nerves, I try to counter that by empathizing with them-trying to see things from their point of view, and viewing them sympathetically.
But ultimately, I find that I often do to others what would please me unless I know it wouldn't please them in specific...sometimes this bites me in the ass.

forget about other cultures, think about what you just wrote about how you deal with other people and try to empathize. if that is how all non-sociopaths (assuming that means they are empathetic) actually were, then there wouldn't be all the shitty people in the world and in everyday society, would there? realistically, not all or even most people are empathetic. it's just not true. maybe it makes us feel better or strokes our ego to say those people xyz are the sociopaths, wierdos etc who do bad things and are unempathetic while the nonlabeled, noncriminals are empathetic. HOGWASH! living in society, we know that's not true. if you don't believe me, leave your wallet out with money somewhere and good luck getting that back. if people were empathetic as they like to believe, then you could be rest assured that everyone is mostly conscientious about the person who is fretting about their lost money to make sure they return it and we know that is not true. a person can pass out somewhere or get injured and most people don't give a shit or don't want to be bothered. they also don't really care about other people's problems either. i can understand you telling me how YOU are so conscientious or try to be empathetic but to use that as some example as if that is some picture of a "non-sociopath" vs "sociopath" is ridiculous. sociopaths have no empathy and non-sociopaths are these empathetic angels who oh so try so hard to be empathetic. let's get real.

two people can be motivated by entirely different values and still have the same results. we really don't know how many sociopaths exist. sociopaths is defined as those lacking in empathy or those who don't respect others rights or humanity. a person may not murder because they are weighing the pros and cons and decides it's not worth it and don't want to go to prison. they are motivated by self-preservation, not empathy. a person may not murder because they really do value life and would feel remorse and are motivated by empathy. see? two different motivations and values with the same results. that's why it's a rather superificial diagnosis of what we consider sociopaths right now. only the person knows what they are really about or what their values are. perhaps the sociopaths that did go on a serial killing spree didn't care if they went to prison as much. who knows?

think about it, if there were no laws today and people really knew that there would be no consequences, there would be mayhem in the streets or at least a lot more crime than is right now.

again, this doesn't mean 'sociopaths' don't exist because there may be more people than we care to admit that are like that.

That statement I highlighted, though...that's typical of not only a lot of people, but most cultures...

Groups that one is attacking or is going to attack are psychologically transformed to less-than-human.

so what? a chimp and human share most of their dna, doesn't make the chimp a human or the human a chimp. just because cultures also can dehumanize others or people within it dehumanize others, doesn't mean sociopaths don't exist because also cultures in general can do the same to some extent.

that's the faulty logic is that we would like to place the labeled people as having no relation to us in any of our attributes. of course there will be some.

that's why we would desperately like to say that sociopaths or psycopaths have no real connections, no friends, live in some basement, somehow stick out like a sore thumb to be recognized and have no relation to us as well as have definite different brains from the 'rest' of 'us' (whatever the hell 'us' means) with no exceptions. it's kind of deviously dishonest itself because it's not only untrue for the most part but it's artificial and delusional. the deviously dishonest part is because then we can absolve ourselves from responsibility or being a part of it but admitting that sociopaths/psychopaths are in our ranks and part of society means many are in complicity in some way, are friends with sociopaths, support them etc.

 

[WillNever]

this statement tells me clearly that you are twisted besides not knowing what the hell you are talking about. i don't care if you are in the mental health profession as you must be one of the idiotic ones. it's you who is perhaps the true sociopath. is up down and down up to you?

for someone to say that everyone else which would include sociopaths is more easily 'herded' than borderline personality types smacks of downright stupidity besides being totally backward. it's sociopaths that can't be herded or manipulated by the staff as easily and that is if you even come into contact with one as they are few that would turn themselves in or seek help.

also, intelligence has got NOTHING to do with it. all these people vary in intelligence. what a complete load of shit!

Overidentify much? Very generally, borderlines are the most attention-seeking, histrionic-acting, and manipulative of those personality disorders. They often try to gain sympathy by pitting others against each other. For example, telling the night shift that the day shift nurses were mean to them.

Sociopaths tend not to do this stuff. They keep to themselves and follow the rules, being very easily mistaken for a person who isn't ill. Except until they become resentful over something childish and snap. Otherwise, they are quite easily herded and easy to keep control over. Antisocial personality disorder is just an adult version of childhood conduct disorder. You are trying to make it sound more lofty than it is. Take it from somebody who has a lot of experience in dealing with these types.

 

[UKJoy]

Don't understand your point; but here goes...

I really don't know what you mean with...

"Why would someone choose to have a conscious who does not already have one?":bugeye:

I know you've mis-spelt this, but it still doesn't make sense to me. So in answering your general sociopath query...

I used to be a psyche nurse in the UK and so have actually 'nursed' sociopaths and they are very fascinating individuals. I think that reading about the condition so much is of little use until you meet them and know how they are as people. Much as what is written is in my POV from academics who don't seem to understand the subject.

The prodominant features of a sociopath are that they are...

1. Emotionally detatched and disconnected from everyone else - this means they are unable to empathise; which can lead to cruel behaviour as they cannot relate to what people feel, as they themselves have no feelings as such and they exist as though there is a barrier between them and others.

2. They love to play games with people to mess with their heads and to get a rise from them - they do this with great skill and strategy - most sociopaths are very intelligent. They are extremely manipulative and Machiavellian. Within a week one man had all the staff hating each other while he watched all the fallouts and enjoyed it very much! They can mess with you without you even knowing, and this is one of the most dangerous traits of sociopaths.

3. There are many more sociopaths in everyday life than most people realise - due to the intelligence of many sociopaths and their nature, they make excellent corporate heads and State leaders, because they're capable of being ruthless in ways that ordinary people would be troubled by due to guilt - the sociopath has no guilt whatsoever, so can do many jobs that other people can't.

I hope this info helps everyone!

 

[birch]

Overidentify much? Very generally, borderlines are the most attention-seeking, histrionic-acting, and manipulative of those personality disorders. They often try to gain sympathy by pitting others against each other. For example, telling the night shift that the day shift nurses were mean to them.

Sociopaths tend not to do this stuff. They keep to themselves and follow the rules, being very easily mistaken for a person who isn't ill. Except until they become resentful over something childish and snap. Otherwise, they are quite easily herded and easy to keep control over. Antisocial personality disorder is just an adult version of childhood conduct disorder. You are trying to make it sound more lofty than it is.

you're an idiot. this post proves it without a doubt. you have it totally backwards. what you list that a sociopath would do is what a borderline would do and vice versa. a borderline in a mental health facility is going to be rather withdrawn. the only difference is that what you list as a borderline is what a sociopath does outside of the view of the public while following the rules in public. borderlines are the ones who would keep to themselves or snap over something childish.

a borderline is the most manipulative and the sociopath is just an adult version of childhood conduct disorder??? is east west and west east to you? trying to gain sympathy by pitting one against another is what a sociopath would do. that is one of their common tactics too! you not only have it backwards but you have an extremely shallow understanding of the subject. this doesn't surprise me with the brilliance (lack of) of your other posts.

you don't have 'experience' dealing with these types because if you had a brain cell, you'd know that sociopaths aren't in the mental health facilities or seek help unless they are forced to which would be "few and far between."

you are unbelievable how backwards you think.

Take it from somebody who has a lot of experience in dealing with these types.

your experience doesn't add up to squat when you're an idiot who can't figure it out, does it?

 

[WillNever]

you don't have 'experience' dealing with these types because if you had a brain cell, you'd know that sociopaths aren't in the mental health facilities or seek help unless they are forced to which would be "few and far between."

unbelievable.

Sociopaths aren't in mental hospitals? What planet are you living on? Most people who reside in state mental hospitals are "forced" to be there for a short time. Most mentally people of all types do not reside as inpatients in hospitals. Did you not know this or something? The ones in hospitals are acutely ill.

One of the recommended diagnostic criteria for antisocial personality disorder is that there is a clear history of conduct disorder in childhood, birch. That is why in professional literature, it is often called an adult version of that illness. It isn't something that just happens suddenly in people.

As well, you seem to be getting angry and resorting to name-calling for trival reasons and over a trivial subject. Are you being rude because you had a bad morning?

 

[birch]

Sociopaths aren't in mental hospitals? What planet are you living on? Most people who reside in state mental hospitals are "forced" to receive treatment. Most mentally people of all types do not reside as inpatients in hospitals. Did you not know this or something?

One of the recommended diagnostic criteria for antisocial personality disorder is that there is a clear history of conduct disorder in childhood, birch. That is why in professional literature, it is often called an adult version of that illness. It isn't something that just happens suddenly in people.

conduct disorder doesn't mean they are a sociopath, dumbass. again, a shallow non-understanding. no shit, it doesn't happen suddenly in people.

no, significant numbers of sociopaths are not in mental hospitals or forced to receive treatment. sociopaths are far and few in mental hospitals. many are misdiagnosed as sociopaths.

As well, you seem to be getting angry and resorting to name-calling for trival reasons and over a trivial subject. Are you being rude because you had a bad morning?

because it is unbelievably and unconscionably heinous to accuse borderlines of being the most manipulative while painting the sociopath as some well-behaved innocent who just acts up once in a while. it's not only very incorrect but it's literally backwards! you should be fired, seriously or only allowed to be an orderly or something.

 

[WillNever]

conduct disorder doesn't mean they are a sociopath, dumbass. again, a shallow non-understanding. no shit, it doesn't happen suddenly in people.

Where did I say conduct disorder necessarily means they are a sociopath? You need to go back and re-read. It is a diagnostic criteria, but not a mandatory one.

no, significant numbers of sociopaths are not in mental hospitals or forced to receive treatment. sociopaths are far and few in mental hospitals. many are misdiagnosed as sociopaths.

Just figuring this one out? Most mentally ill people never reside in state mental hospitals, not just sociopaths.

because it is unbelievably and unconscionably heinous to accuse borderlines of being the most manipulative while painting the sociopath as some well-behaved innocent who just acts up once in a while. it's not only very incorrect but it's literally backwards!

On a science site, a point of disagreement is rarely just cause for being rude to complete strangers. It lowers the standard of discourse and degrades the topic for people who are not involved in the argument.

 

[birch]

what i find interesting is how even perhaps unintentionally how flipped the public knowledge was. chimpkin mentioned compulsive lying as a borderline trait but it's not. chronic lying is actually a core trait of the sociopath. willnever thinks borderlines are the most manipulative but it's sociopath/psychopaths that are.

i suspect this is society's typical blame on the 'symptoms' or what appears to be the most problematic or the victim. the one who pinches another is not going to yelp, the victim is though not the perpetrator. society is superficial and doesn't care to look beneath the surface unless it has to. it want everyone to 'put on the act'. sociopaths do but only because it's easy when they aren't the victim, they are predators. it's good enough for the society though as that's pretty much all that it cares about as long as problems don't 'surface' and the illusion goes on unfettered and people's lives are unbothered by other's problems.

in other words, lots more sociopaths in society than they admit. many are probably sociopaths covering their own butt by accusing the victim as well.

but trying to pass off 'manipulative' to borderlines vs sociopaths is downright evil. ironicly, that's a direct projection because that "is" manipulative to do that. not only is society trying to find a scapegoat but wants to dump the manipulation they are doing on the victim!

 

[John99]

You guys know a lot about this subject.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Sociopaths believe that the end justifies the means.
We find them useful.

If you are part of a group which is in conflict with another, you may elect as a leader someone who is prepared to order you to do things that you would not do of your own volition. This removes personal responsibility for your actions, and the resulting guilt.

 

[John99]

Sociopaths are more in control than psychopaths. That is the only difference.