So where female Muslims go in the afterlife?

S.A.M. said:
I already described my beliefs. Perhaps you should read them again.
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AS expected...

"we" did not agree to anything. I said I believed that actions have consequences ...
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and I said they are important. So we agreed. Obviously if the consequences are not important they don't matter...

As I already stated, it is not known.
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Since I like simple answers, I take your answer that you don't know. I thought the Quran was clear on the matter, by the way...
 
Syzygys said:
AS expected...

and I said they are important. So we agreed. Obviously if the consequences are not important they don't matter...
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Sure, but that does not make them any more known.


Since I like simple answers, I take your answer that you don't know. I thought the Quran was clear on the matter, by the way...
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Only in terms of states of heaven and hell, not what they imply.

Jannah itself means "the hidden" while hell is described as torment (adhaab)
 
How very consusing for a non-Muslim. Things are hidden ( whatever cannot be explained ), the Koran is not clear on certain matters but there are scholars who will interpret obscure passages an understanding of which is reached by studying the Koran. Why did Allah make it so difficult for people to understand his word ? Another of his little games with humans ?

To sum up your position, you have said that our actions are determined because Allah decreed it so, and we shall be rewarded in heaven or hell, depending on what Allah has decided in advance, not on how we behave. It follows that there should be no concept of sin because we cannot choose our actions, yet Muslims believe in punishing what they regard as sin.

Can I suggest that, in future, you save everyone a lot of time and truoble by stating in advance that there is nothing to debate. You know what you beloeve and it is not open to discussion, That would be the honest thing to do rather than rant on about actions and consequences, which is no news to anyone, and other matters which simply serve to obfuscate rather than clarify your position.

Lastly, stop blaming Americans, Israelis and others for their actions; by your own token they are simply doing what Allah created them to do.
 
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Myles said:
Can I suggest that, in future, you save everyone a lot of time and truoble by stating in advance that there is nothing to debate. You know what you believe and it is not open to discussion, That would be the honest thing to do rather than rant on about actions and consequences, which is no news to anyone, and other matters which simply serve to obfuscate rather than clarify your position.
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That's exactly were my feelings too. If she doesn't want to discuss her beliefs, that is her business, just say so. Altough that itself is telling when one doesn't want to or can't discuss/describe his/her beliefs...

For any educated 21st century women the 7th century view of Muslim afterlife should be sexist, misogynist and simply offensive. So I guess they have to come up with some kind of substitute and a metaphysical explanation instead of the literal meaning of the original words...
 
S.A.M. said:
Exactly. Which is why that is what is addressed in society, rather than the crime itself.

Religion on the other hand addresses the crime.
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A contradiction. You just said:

Every person will behave according to that for which he was created, and his destiny will be that for which he was created; good deeds and evil deeds are foreordained for all men".
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Hence, there are no crimes, there is only the will of Allah. If Allah creates people to steal, then ordains it a crime in which mutilation is the result, how are we to perceive Allah?

More intellectual dishonesty, Sam?
 
Syzygys said:
That's exactly were my feelings too. If she doesn't want to discuss her beliefs, that is her business, just say so. Altough that itself is telling when one doesn't want to or can't discuss/describe his/her beliefs...

For any educated 21st century women the 7th century view of Muslim afterlife should be sexist, misogynist and simply offensive. So I guess they have to come up with some kind of substitute and a metaphysical explanation instead of the literal meaning of the original words...
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Perhaps if my beliefs were obtained from the musings of every philosopher since the 7th century who gave his opinion on the afterlife, your conclusion would make sense. The sexist misogynist view of the Muslim afterlife that you define mirrors not what the Quran says, but what some people have theorised based on their knowledge and beliefs.

My own beliefs go back to the Quran and are simply classed as "there are consequences to actions". Whether they are individual actions, actions as a society or a species are open to interpretation. Whether the afterlife is spiritual or corporeal is also open to interpretation. Whether heaven or hell is a place or a state of mind or a condition of the species is also open to interpretation. Since I have not had the opportunity to adequately study all the viewpoints available, I prefer to err on the side of caution and say "I don't know". I could of course theorise based on my fantasies, but that would simply be mental masturbation, not a belief.

(Q) said:
You said:
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Look again, thats not me who said that. :)
 
S.A.M. said:
Whether the afterlife is spiritual or corporeal is also open to interpretation.
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WakawaAAiba, "beautiful women with round breasts"

Sounds pretty physical to me, but I can be very subjective in this particular matter... :)
 
(Q) said:
Yes, it was you, don't lie about it.
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It wasn't, it was a quote from a citation.
According to at-Tahhaawwi in his book on al-'Aqeedah al-Salafiyyah (correct belief in
accordance with that of the early generations of Islaam) that is known as
al-'Aqeedah al-Tahhaawiyyah.

"Paradise and Hell have already been created. They will never come to an end
or cease to exist. Allaah (swt) created Paradise and Hell before the rest of
creation, and He (swt) created inhabitants for each of them. Whoever He
(swt) wishes (will enter) Paradise by His grace and mercy, and whoever He
(swt) wishes (will enter Hell) as a result of His (swt) justice. Every
person will behave according to that for which he was created, and his
destiny will be that for which he was created; good deeds and evil deeds are
foreordained for all men".
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http://aqeedatahawiyya.com/index1.htm
 
(Q) said:
Yes, but YOU posted it to back up an argument. And, now you have contradicted yourself.

Must you always be so dishonest?
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And? Posting an opinion to back up an argument does not necessarily indicate that I support the opinion. Or that it is my opinion. I need merely only show it to indicate that there is more than one opinion on a subject. I suggest you take a more objective view and stop relying on unsupported assumptions.
 
S.A.M. said:
Let me put it this way. What you are is the sum of your genes and environment. Given a certain genetic makeup and put in a certain environment, one can predict your behaviour within a certain range. In fact, if I were to reach a point of knowledge where I knew all about your genes and all about your environment and the interaction between the two, I could probably tell you how you are going to behave in a certain situation. So, does this mean you are or you are not thinking for yourself? ;)
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Yes, that's exactly what it means. How else can it be predicted ?
 
S.A.M. said:
And? Posting an opinion to back up an argument does not necessarily indicate that I support the opinion. Or that it is my opinion. I need merely only show it to indicate that there is more than one opinion on a subject. I suggest you take a more objective view and stop relying on unsupported assumptions.
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That's a good reason not to believe anything you say
 
S.A.M. said:
Because I debate points of view rather than my opinions? :rolleyes:

How sneaky of me.
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What happened tpo the thread about the parents who prayed for a sick child instead of seeking medical assistance.

You made a specific statement about what Muslims believe. Now you appear to be weazeling out. So whose point of view were you putting forward asnd why didd you not qualify your statement ?
 
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