So they are burning and looting in Baltimore tonight

[Billy T]

Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake asked the US Justice Department on Wednesday to investigate the city's police department for civil rights violations after the death of a black man from injuries sustained in police custody. Rawlings-Blake told a news conference the investigation would look into police practices such as frisks, street stops of suspects and arrests to see if they violated the US Constitution.

US Attorney General Loretta Lynch will launch a federal probe into whether Baltimore's police department has engaged in a "pattern or practice" of excessive force, the Washington Post reported on Thursday. Lynch, who took office last week, met on Tuesday with Gray's family and Baltimore officials and vowed to help the city pursue police reform. The Justice Department has conducted similar reviews of US police departments. An investigation of police in Ferguson, Missouri, where a white officer shot dead an unarmed black teenager last year, concluded in March that {Ferguson Police} department routinely engaged in racially biased practices.

China is following this very carefully – Will exploit it in Africa as I noted in several prior posts , especially 169 & 129 which is partially reproduced below.

Police acting illegally against blacks, killing some, hurts the US globally.
This photo of anger in Baltimore is from today's China daily. It will be shown in Africa etc. by China - you can bet on that.

BTW, for those who don't know, the lady with clinched fist, thumb folded in front, and elbow bent 90 degrees is giving the "black power" salute.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

This photo of anger in Baltimore is from today's China daily. It will be shown in Africa etc. by China - you can bet on that.

How amusing, considering the way the Chinese treat their own ethnic minorities! The Muslims in Xinjiang are persecuted far worse than our Afro-Americans.

There are millions of African immigrants working in America who keep in contact with their families at home. I'm not worried that the Africans are going to be misled by Chinese propaganda.

An issue that does, perhaps, deserve to be discussed is the fact that on the average, we treat African immigrants (even Muslims!) somewhat better than black people who were born here.

 

[Billy T]

How amusing, considering the way the Chinese treat their own ethnic minorities! The Muslims in Xinjiang are persecuted far worse than our Afro-Americans. ...

That may be true - I'll take your word on it; However, China, as owner of the Xinjiang region does already have a lock on the resources there. What worries me, is how rapidly the Chinese are gaining a lock on much of the African resources. To mention just one of very many examples - China will get the eastern Congo's great copper resources as it is building a rail road and port to take them with - all to the delight of the Congo government. They get a rail road (tracks, engines and rail cars) and a port* for some minerals that gave them nothing burried in the ground.

* Probably plus a few million dollars they can put into Swiss banks so they will live well after the next revolution.

China is not a "moral nation" but one that like the US that knows: "Might makes Right." If Iraq had no oil, Saddam would still be ruling it. etc.
China is just a little more clever in how they go about stealing the wealth of future generations in foreign lands. I. e. tends to show a net profit, not loss.

 

[youreyes]

How amusing, considering the way the Chinese treat their own ethnic minorities!

whats amusing is how US has exploited its colored revolutions everywhere including China. The recent Hong Kong protests, tied to numerous US diplomats just show how far US is willing to go and invest in governments it does not favor. Yet, for China to do the same is a sin. Double standards, much?

what is USA? genocide of the Indians, to whom the land belonged and the ongoing racial discrimination from which the recent protests in Ferguson and Baltimore are rooted. And USA has the audacity to teach the world something? Pathetic.

THIS, is amusing.

 

[joepistole]

whats amusing is how US has exploited its colored revolutions everywhere including China. The recent Hong Kong protests, tied to numerous US diplomats just show how far US is willing to go and invest in governments it does not favor. Yet, for China to do the same is a sin. Double standards, much?

I don't suppose you can back any of your assertions up with evidence?

what is USA? genocide of the Indians, to whom the land belonged and the ongoing racial discrimination from which the recent protests in Ferguson and Baltimore are rooted. And USA has the audacity to teach the world something? Pathetic.

Genocide of American Indians...? Since you are living in the US, you should know American Indians are alive and well and there is no genocide - one of "dem" detail "thingys" again. And you want us to believe there is no racism in Mother Russia, you know, the Mother Russia you so idolize?

THIS, is amusing.

Well, I guess that explains the Russian love of gulags.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=E1B27B6A76AC34C3C4ECE1B27B6A76AC34C3C4EC

 

[iceaura]

McCoy said blacks might be more likely to have a violent encounter with police because they are convicted of felonies at a higher rate than whites. Felonies include everything from violent crimes like murder and rape, to property crimes like burglary and embezzlement, to drug trafficking and gun offenses.

That the police tend courts tend to enforce the law more rigidly and oppressively against black people is not evidence against race being a factor in their tendency to kill black people at higher rates as well.

We all know, for example, that black people end up in jail for drug possession at far higher rates than white people, despite the two races possessing drugs at similar rates. That might very well lead to higher rates of violent police encounter among blacks, without diminishing race as a factor in those encounters.

One thing I've noticed is that police seem to draw their firearms very early on in encounters with black people. In my last drug tested/background check job, in Minneapolis, I was working alongside several black men with no major criminal history or record, and every one of them had had the experience of looking down the barrel of a gun in the hands of a police officer. These were routine traffic stops, etc. And we see such examples as the Ferguson killing, where the officer apparently drew his gun in order to accost a black teenager for jaywalking, and this was presented as not unusual or in itself an incitement to violence.

That experience is much less common among white people.

 

[joepistole]

Well, for starters Ice, you falsely attributed the following to me: “McCoy said blacks might be more likely to have a violent encounter with police because they are convicted of felonies at a higher rate than whites. Felonies include everything from violent crimes like murder and rape, to property crimes like burglary and embezzlement, to drug trafficking and gun offenses.” That was written by and published by Politifact. The McCoy referenced in the article was a criminologist, you know, people who study crime for a living.

That the police tend courts tend to enforce the law more rigidly and oppressively against black people is not evidence against race being a factor in their tendency to kill black people at higher rates as well.

And I assume you have evidence to support that assertion? Let’s see it. Let’s see this racism in our court system that you have alleged. Where is it, where is your proof?

That We all know, for example, that black people end up in jail for drug possession at far higher rates than white people, despite the two races possessing drugs at similar rates. That might very well lead to higher rates of violent police encounter among blacks, without diminishing race as a factor in those encounters.

You all know…or you all believe? Where is your evidence? You know Ice, facts do matter.

One thing I've noticed is that police seem to draw their firearms very early on in encounters with black people.

Where is your evidence Ice?

In my last drug tested/background check job, in Minneapolis, I was working alongside several black men with no major criminal history or record, and every one of them had had the experience of looking down the barrel of a gun in the hands of a police officer. These were routine traffic stops, etc. And we see such examples as the Ferguson killing, where the officer apparently drew his gun in order to accost a black teenager for jaywalking, and this was presented as not unusual or in itself an incitement to violence.

So you know this how? Again, at best, this is what you believe. Additionally, even if your stories were true, anecdotal stories does not a case make. And with respect to Ferguson, there is no evidence a police officer “drew his gun in order to accost a black teenager”. If fact, all the evidence says the black teenager repeatedly attacked the police officer and the police officer was justified in shooting and killing the black teenager. It’s called the right of self-defense.

That experience is much less common among white people.

Except, the facts say otherwise. Just because you believe things Ice, it doesn’t make your beliefs true.

This is what McCoy actually said:

“Candace McCoy is a criminologist at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice at the City University of New York. McCoy said blacks might be more likely to have a violent encounter with police because they are convicted of felonies at a higher rate than whites. Felonies include everything from violent crimes like murder and rape, to property crimes like burglary and embezzlement, to drug trafficking and gun offenses.

The Bureau of Justice Statistics reported that in 2004, state courts had over 1 million felony convictions. Of those, 59 percent were committed by whites and 38 percent by blacks. But when you factor in the population of whites and blacks, the felony rates stand at 330 per 100,000 for whites and 1,178 per 100,000 for blacks. That’s more than a three-fold difference.
McCoy noted that this has more to do with income than race. The felony rates for poor whites are similar to those of poor blacks.”
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/21/michael-medved/talk-show-host-police-kill-more-whites-blacks/

At some point Ice, facts have to matter.

 

[iceaura]

That the police tend courts tend to enforce the law more rigidly and oppressively against black people is not evidence against race being a factor in their tendency to kill black people at higher rates as well.
And I assume you have evidence to support that assertion?

Uh, I quoted it, directly from your post. You posted it. You just didn't recognize it, so I clarified it for you.

And with respect to Ferguson, there is no evidence a police officer “drew his gun in order to accost a black teenager”.

There is the testimony of the officer, the bruises he suffered, the forensic evidence of shell and blood location, the eyewitness accounts of the incident, the DOJ report description, and so forth and so on. What more do you need?

This is what McCoy actually said:

“Candace McCoy is a criminologist at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice at the City University of New York. McCoy said blacks might be more likely to have a violent encounter with police because they are convicted of felonies at a higher rate than whites. Felonies include everything from violent crimes like murder and rape, to property crimes like burglary and embezzlement, to drug trafficking and gun offenses.

Which fits what I said perfectly, except for his spurious attribution of cause/effect to correlation without providing a mechanism or dealing with the obvious confounding factors (convictions are obtained in court, where violence is rare, just for starters) - I am attributing the correlation to common cause, which is far more plausible due to the visible and easily sufficient mechanism ready at hand.

 

[joepistole]

There is the testimony of the officer, the bruises he suffered, the forensic evidence of shell and blood location, the eyewitness accounts of the incident, the DOJ report description, and so forth and so on. What more do you need?

Yeah, I suggest your read those reports because they are inconsistent with your beliefs. I'll repost the link to the DOJ report once again for your edification.

The Shootings Were Not Objectively Unreasonable Uses of Force Under 18

U.S.C. § 242
There is no credible evidence to refute Wilson’s stated subjective belief that he was acting in self-defense. As discussed throughout this report, Wilson’s account is corroborated by physical evidence and his perception of a threat posed by Brown is corroborated by other credible eyewitness accounts. Even if Wilson was mistaken in his interpretation of Brown’s conduct, the fact that others interpreted that conduct the same way as Wilson precludes a determination that he acted for the purpose of violating the law.
http://www.justice.gov/sites/defaul...doj_report_on_shooting_of_michael_brown_1.pdf

It is quite obvious Ice you are either ignorant of material or are being deceitful.

Which fits what I said perfectly, except for his spurious attribution of cause/effect to correlation without providing a mechanism or dealing with the obvious confounding factors (convictions are obtained in court, where violence is rare, just for starters) - I am attributing the correlation to common cause, which is far more plausible due to the visible and easily sufficient mechanism ready at hand.

Except it doesn't. McCoy is a she by the way and she does explain other mitigating factors and their is nothing spurious about Ms. McCoy or Politifact. And you haven't provided a shred of evidence to support your beliefs. As previously explained, McCoy thinks the differences in criminal convictions are attributable to class and not race...noting poor white and blacks have similar conviction rates.

 

[Billy T]

Records obtained by The Baltimore Sun show that city police often disregard or are oblivious to injuries and illnesses among people they apprehend.
After arriving at Central Booking, detainees are examined by intake nurses to determine whether they are stable enough for the four- to five-hour booking process, said Gerard Shields, spokesman for the state Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services. If someone is rejected, the responsibility falls on police to get medical care, he added.
From June 2012 through April 2015, correctional officers at the Baltimore City Detention Center have
refused to admit nearly 2,600 detainees {sick or injured} who were in police custody, according to state records obtained through a Maryland Public Information Act request.

In those records, intake officers in Central Booking noted a wide variety of injuries, including fractured bones, facial trauma and hypertension. Of the detainees denied entry, 123 had visible head injuries, the third most common medical problem cited by jail officials, records show.
The Sun's examination of more than 100 lawsuits against officers — in which the city paid more than $6 million in court judgments and settlements* — found that dozens of residents accused police of inflicting severe injuries during questionable arrests and disregarding appeals for medical attention.

"It goes to demonstrate the callous indifference the officers show when they are involved with the public," said attorney A. Dwight Pettit, who has sued dozens of city officers in the past 40 years.
"Why would they render medical care when
they rendered many of the injuries on the people?"
{Billy T adds:
Freddy Gray's case and many dozens of others have cost the city 6 million dollar over only three years.}

* I.e. Police of Baltimore by ignoring (or causing) serious injury to detainees have cost Baltimore more than 6 million dollars. (In just the 100 law suits the Baltimore Sun investigated!)
Thus not only does China get very US damaging FACTS to use in Africa, the tax payers get higher taxes too!

In post 102, Parmalee tells the following happened when he had a seizure and fell (with injury) in a Baltimore drug store:
" I was denied medical attention for the injuries I had sustained, and I was denied my epilepsy medication—which was right inside of my freakin’ bag which they had seized, and which contained all pertinent info (my name, medication name, prescribing doctor, dosing information, etc.)—and I was detained in this hellhole for 18+ hours! "
And he is white, so was not beaten or ruffed up. - Only his medical needs were ignored.

 

[joepistole]

* I.e. Police of Baltimore by ignoring (or causing) serious injury to detainees have cost Baltimore more than 6 million dollars. (In just the 100 law suits the Baltimore Sun investigated!)
Thus not only does China get very US damaging FACTS to use in Africa, the tax payers get higher taxes too!

In post 102, Parmalee tells the following happened when he had a seizure and fell (with injury) in a Baltimore drug store:
" I was denied medical attention for the injuries I had sustained, and I was denied my epilepsy medication—which was right inside of my freakin’ bag which they had seized, and which contained all pertinent info (my name, medication name, prescribing doctor, dosing information, etc.)—and I was detained in this hellhole for 18+ hours! "
And he is white, so was not beaten or ruffed up. - Only his medical needs were ignored.

Too be fair, and as I previously pointed out, it is all too common for criminals and others to fake medical injuries and illnesses in order to get out of jail or prevent arrest or for some other reason. So I can understand how police can become hardened. It's like the boy who cried wolf one too many times. The problem is every once in a while, someone really is having a legitimate medical problem and some police departments are just not set up to handle it. I think it is obvious things are not working in Baltimore and in other cities. There has be to a better solution, and a better solution requires some honesty and rational thought - things I have yet to see from many folks.

 

[Billy T]

Too be fair, and as I previously pointed out, it is all too common for criminals and others to fake medical injuries and illnesses in order to get out of jail or prevent arrest or for some other reason. ...

That is why the police don't make the call "he's faking." but as I said in post 210 a trained nurse does:
"After arriving at Central Booking, detainees are examined by intake nurses to determine whether they are stable enough for the four- to five-hour booking process, "

Also "faking" does not "get them out of jail." It gets them skilled medical attention until they can go to jail and wait for trial.
I. e. may prolong their being held in custody.

There are things with near zero cost that could be done as I suggested in post 200,
I.e. make the dashboard camera files available to the public, not suppressible by police until the ACLU etc. takes legal action to get them (2 year delay in post 200 case). Video shows cop break the jaw of black man with kick in the face while he was COMPLYING with orders to get down. - Kicked as soon as man had gotten down to all fours, with face at convent height from ground for the very forceful kick. That cop was still "serving" the public with pay - not even reprimanded in any way.

See video here: http://news.yahoo.com/arrest-cop-kicking-black-man-signs-shift-prosecuting-174955849.html

 

[joepistole]

That is why the police don't make the call "he's faking." but as I said in post 210 a trained nurse does:
"After arriving at Central Booking, detainees are examined by intake nurses to determine whether they are stable enough for the four- to five-hour booking process, "

Actually, the nurse doesn’t. Cops don’t travel around with “trained nurses” in their cab cars. So that leaves the cop to determine who gets medical assistance and who doesn’t. Nurses working in jails determine who is healthy enough to be accepted into a jail and they pass out meds and minor wound treatment, but that is where their role ends.

In my 10 years working as an EMT, I have responded to jail calls on numerous occasions. I can only remember seeing a nurse once in my 10 years and she was passing out meds. Additionally, jailers are not policemen, but the jail is run by policemen. So the cop in charge of the jail, typically a sergeant, is the guy or gal who makes the call as to when a prisoner gets medical attention – not the nurse.

That Also "faking" does not "get them out of jail." It gets them skilled medical attention until they can go to jail and wait for trial.
I. e. may prolong their being held in custody.

Oh yes it does, it gets them out of jail, for one simple reason, cost. It costs a lot of money to send someone to an ER. So unless your talking about a particularly heinous act, the cops are more likely than not to just release the prisoner. As I said before, as an EMT I have responded to numerous medical calls to the jail. And 9 times out of 10, the cops release the prisoner on the spot. Because it costs the city money, if the city didn’t release the prisoner, the city would have to pay the ambulance and emergency room costs and they would have to tie up a cop for hours, because a cop would have to escort the prisoner to and from the hospital in order to guard the prisoner. It just doesn’t make sense to keep the prisoner unless the prisoner has been accused of a serious or particularly heinous crime. Emergency room waits could easily tie up a cop for several hours (8-10 hours or more).

There are things with near zero cost that could be done as I suggested in post 200,
I.e. make the dashboard camera files available to the public, not suppressible by police until the ACLU etc. takes legal action to get them (2 year delay in post 200 case). Video shows cop break the jaw of black man with kick in the face while he was COMPLYING with orders to get down. - Kicked as soon as man had gotten down to all fours, with face at convent height from ground for the very forceful kick. That cop was still "serving" the public with pay - not even reprimanded in any way.

Video cams aren’t nearly zero cost. Video cameras aren’t nearly free and this data must be stored somewhere. And video cameras will not solve the faker problem. Here is another problem with your video camera idea, I don’t think most people want their encounters with police broadcast over the internet.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

The front-page article in yesterday's Baltimore Post presented the information that each year, 800-900 of the people arrested by the police and brought to the detention center are not accepted because of health problems that require prompt medical attention. Of course the #1 problem is diabetes, but I was startled to find that the #3 problem is facial injuries!

 

[iceaura]

I'll repost the link to the DOJ report once again for your edification.

The DOJ report fully supports the rest of the evidence, all of which indicates that Wilson drew his gun while fully inside his car, before attempting to get out and accost Brown for arrogant jaywalking.

And if you talk to black men who live in my area, you'll find that having had a gun drawn on them by a police officer in a routine situation - traffic stop, sidewalk questioning, crime check, warrant search, etc - is a common experience. This is not true of white men - regardless of class.

As previously explained, McCoy thinks the differences in criminal convictions are attributable to class and not race...noting poor white and blacks have similar conviction rates.

And I point out that there's a hole in that argument, as described. So?

 

[sculptor]

ice; don't go all racists on us.

 

[joepistole]

The DOJ report fully supports the rest of the evidence, all of which indicates that Wilson drew his gun while fully inside his car, before attempting to get out and accost Brown for arrogant jaywalking.

Yeah…so. Contrary to your assertions, both the grand jury investigation and the DOJ investigation found your beliefs with respect to the Ferguson incident to be false. There is no if, ands or buts about it. Both investigations did not find any evidence to back up your assertion of misconduct on the part of Officer Wilson. So, you just pretend those investigations back up your assertions when in fact they do not and hope no one will notice. I have once again provided you with a copy of the DOJ report. Show me where it says Officer Wilson drew his gun. It wasn’t when you said he drew it. You either have a severe cognitive deficit here or you are just flat out lying Ice.

And Brown wasn’t jaywalking when he and his friend were approached by Officer Wilson; they were walking down the middle of the street and presented a clear and present danger to themselves and to motorists – one of “dem” minor details which keep plaguing you again.

And if you talk to black men who live in my area, you'll find that having had a gun drawn on them by a police officer in a routine situation - traffic stop, sidewalk questioning, crime check, warrant search, etc - is a common experience. This is not true of white men - regardless of class.

Well, all we have to support your assertion here is your word, and given how freely you play with the truth (e.g. the DOJ report), your credibility is more than suspect. But even it were true it doesn’t mean the “black men” you speak with in your neighborhood are telling you the truth, nor does it mean their experiences are representative, and there may be other factors at work here too. Like maybe those folks have criminal records and were stopped and guns pointed at them for other reasons. Have you ever stopped to think maybe they are not being straight with you? As I have told you before, at some point fact and reason have to matter.

A few months ago, I was stopped by a cop because a tail light had burned out. I am a white 60 year old; the cop did a criminal check on me too. It’s what cops do when they pull people over for a traffic violation and there is nothing wrong with it. That’s why they ask for your ID and you have to wait while they go back to their patrol car and run your ID. It’s standard operating procedure. It isn’t racist to do run a criminal background check. It’s one way the catch bad guys. Nor is it racist to pull someone over for some minor traffic infringement.

Here is the deal with you Ice, you have some beliefs. Your beliefs are contrary to known evidence and you have absolutely no credible evidence to back up your beliefs. That is the bottom line Ice.

And I point out that there's a hole in that argument, as described. So?

Well, what you did was to make some incoherent grandiose assertions and you offered no evidence to back up those assertions. The bottom line here again, is your beliefs are just not consistent with known facts and rational analysis.

 

[Billy T]

... (1) Cops don’t travel around with “trained nurses” in their cab cars. So that leaves the cop to determine who gets medical assistance and who doesn’t. ... (2) Video cams aren’t nearly zero cost. Video cameras aren’t nearly free and this data must be stored somewhere. (3)And video cameras will not solve the faker problem. ...

On (1): Of course nurses don't ride with the cops in patrol cars. Not what I suggested (actually quoted from Baltimore Sun) was:

"Records obtained by The Baltimore Sun show that city police often disregard or are oblivious to injuries and illnesses among people they apprehend. After arriving at Central Booking, detainees are examined by intake nurses to determine whether they are stable enough for the four- to five-hour booking process, said Gerard Shields, spokesman for the state Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services. If someone is rejected, the responsibility falls on police to get medical care, he added."

Later in article and not quoted "obvious injury" were 1/3 head damage and some times bone sticking out thru skin - That is hard to fake. I.e. If not in condition to go thru booking as determined by the nurse, then the police are to get detainee to medical services, NOT turn him lose as you assert. He has been in their custody - they are responsible for seeing he gets the needed care.

From June 2012 through April 2015, correctional officers at the Baltimore City Detention Center have refused to admit nearly 2,600 detainees {sick or injured} who were in police custody, according to state records obtained through a Maryland Public Information Act request. According to the lawyer with 40 years of experience, often the reason he is in need of care is due to the police. Like in Freddy's case - healthy when police took him into custody, but not for long.

On (2): True, but most police cars already have them - Even if not one new one were bought, knowing a detainee could get copy to use in legal action against the police, (instead of bear big expense for him or ACLU etc. to stop the police from keeping evidence covered up) would reduce number of the very obvious cases of police abuse, like kick breaking jaw of detainee as he complies with "get down order" as seen in video at end of post 212 {Finally released after two year legal struggle to ended police suppression of it was won by ACLU}

On (3): In some cases they might, but their records are the truth about what happened at least from that point of view. A faker, acting so well that nurse is tricked, is supposed to be taken, still in police custody to medical services, not set free, as you state.

 

[joepistole]

On (1): Of course nurses don't ride with the cops in patrol cars. Not what I suggested (actually quoted from Baltimore Sun) was:
"Records obtained by The Baltimore Sun show that city police often disregard or are oblivious to injuries and illnesses among people they apprehend. After arriving at Central Booking, detainees are examined by intake nurses to determine whether they are stable enough for the four- to five-hour booking process, said Gerard Shields, spokesman for the state Department of Public Safety and Correctional Services. If someone is rejected, the responsibility falls on police to get medical care, he added."

Ok, you are changing your story now. That isn’t what you previously posted.

Later in article and not quoted "obvious injury" were 1/3 head damage and some times bone sticking out thru skin - That is hard to fake. I.e. If not in condition to go thru booking as determined by the nurse, then the police are to get detainee to medical services, NOT turn him lose as you assert. He has been in their custody - they are responsible for seeing he gets the needed care.

Hmm, I think you are confused BillyT. Just because the jail releases a prisoner (i.e. let the out of jail), it doesn’t mean jailers deny medical care or turn their prisoners on to the streets. Remember, I was an EMT. Why do you think the jailers called EMS? I wouldn’t be in the jail if the jailers had not called EMS for medical assistance for the prisoner they were about to release. Typically, when a jail inmate would fake a medical or actually had a legitimate medical condition and the charge was minor, jailers would call EMS and release the prisoner from jail. When EMS showed up, we would take care of the former prisoner and take him/her to an emergency room. Where the patient would be examined, treated if needed, and then released. So contrary to your assertion medical conditions do get prisoners out of jail, and people really do fake illnesses in order to get out of jail. And cops really do make decisions about healthcare for their prisoners. If cops feel their prisoners need medical attention, they don’t need a nurse to tell them. One more thing BillyT, just because some patients have legitimate injuries or illnesses, it doesn’t mean some prisoners are faking illness and working the system.

By releasing the prisoner the city avoids financial responsibility for the ambulance (moi) and the ER. The financial responsibility then falls on the patient who is typically indigent will not pay his bills. So the state, county and federal government and insured people pick up the costs of his healthcare.

From June 2012 through April 2015, correctional officers at the Baltimore City Detention Center have refused to admit nearly 2,600 detainees {sick or injured} who were in police custody, according to state records obtained through a Maryland Public Information Act request. According to the lawyer with 40 years of experience, often the reason he is in need of care is due to the police. Like in Freddy's case - healthy when police took him into custody, but not for long.

I don’t know where you get your information; I have neither the time or will to check it out. But assuming the numbers to be true, and that is a big assumption, those numbers are not consistent with my experience. During my 10 year experience, there were only a hand full of cases where EMS was called because the jail refused to accept a prisoner for medical reasons. One that stands out, was a convicted murder, who refused to stand up. So unless Baltimore Police Department is just that bad and the City of Oakland Ca is just that good, I think your numbers are suspect.

On (2): True, but most police cars already have them - Even if not one new one were bought, knowing a detainee could get copy to use in legal action against the police, (instead of bear big expense for him or ACLU etc. to stop the police from keeping evidence covered up) would reduce number of the very obvious cases of police abuse, like kick breaking jaw of detainee as he complies with "get down order" as seen in video at end of post 212 {Finally released after two year legal struggle to ended police suppression of it was won by ACLU}

And you have evidence of this? Two, there is a difference between a car camera and body cameras. If people want to get tapes in legal disputes with the police, they should have access to the tapes. Most state have freedom of information laws which make this material available. But you wrote you wanted these tapes published and freely available.

On (3): In some cases they might, but their records are the truth about what happened at least from that point of view. A faker, acting so well that nurse is tricked, is supposed to be taken, still in police custody to medical services, not set free, as you state.

I don’t know what you are trying to say here BillyT. In most cases, a nurse wasn’t even involved after the prisoner has been accepted into the jail. The Oakland Police Department just didn’t mess with medical fakers. If a prisoner claimed to be in or acted like they were in medical distress, jailers called EMS and if the prisoner was imprisoned for a minor crime, they also released him from jail almost immediately. So when EMS showed up, the former prisoner was no longer their responsibility.

You don’t seem to understand, that just because the jail sets someone free, it doesn’t mean they don’t also seek medical care for the prisoner. Setting a prisoner free doesn’t mean they deny healthcare to prisoners. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. Additionally, jail nurses are not staffed, trained, or equipped, to be an ER or to provide EMS services.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

Setting a prisoner free doesn’t mean they deny healthcare to prisoners. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. Additionally, jail nurses are not staffed, trained, or equipped, to be an ER or to provide EMS services.

Indeed. It's more likely that a prisoner who actually is incarcerated will receive insufficient medical care, or none at all.