Show me the evidence.

[heflores]

Originally posted by Vienna
At last....an agreement!

We speak different languages, I speak English, you speak pidgin.

Stand corrected. I speak your English with slight mistakes and Pidgin. You don't know Pidgin. So some topics that I'll be on you'll not be able to participate. I'll try to switch back and forth for you sometimes so you won't feel left out. I also know the following languages:

nidgin
ridgen
kidgen
arabic (with mistakes)
spanish (with mistakes)

 

[Vienna]

Whatever became of the good professor who taught you that it's not possible to make a mistake in the English Language? Surely he was jesting !!!!

Anyway old girl, I digress.

Back to the topic.

 

[Raithere]

Try sticking to the topic.

Originally posted by whatsupyall
When the pharisees asked jesus "Should we pay taxes to Ceasar's?" Jesus said "Give to Ceasars what belong to Ceasars, and to God what belongs to God.."

Please point out how this has any bearing upon your assertion that Christianity is proven because some governments have some laws that mirror those in the Bible. Seriously, you're not even close to the topic at hand. Digression is not consider a proper debating tactic.

Jesus said "Go to every house and preach the good news, but if they donot welcome you...Wipe the dust of your feet and leave the house, Verily I say unto you I will be more tolerable in Sodom and Gomorah than in that town...."

Again, please show how this is in any way relevant to your "proof" arguments or my counter arguments.

FREEDOM............SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

Good boy... the first Amendment. And your point is?

Then your so stupid that you will say "Prove to me that the pharisees were talking snakes, prove that scientifically..."

Um no. According to the quotation it would seem he was speaking metaphorically.

THATS A FIGURE OF SPEECH DUMMY.

Believe me it is quite apparent that I have a better handle on the figures of speech than you do... you certainly are not qualified to teach me.

Once again people can be lead astray......."Blind leading the blind both will fall in the ditch......."- Jesus..Ther are false preachers, the bible said, for if there were NO false preachers, then the bible must be lying, but because the bible is true, then there must be false preachers.

Again, which of your assertions are you trying to support? Are you saying that God gives miraculous powers to false preachers so they can lead people astray? What about those instances where no religion or preacher at all was part of the equation but instead the person believed that a little white sugar pill would make them better?

Seriously, the only reason you are under the illusion that you have never lost an argument is because you apparently cannot present one.

~Raithere

 

[Turduckin]

Originally posted by Cris
turduckin,

With appropriate humility one can learn many things from almost anything or anyone.

I've only read your recent posts and I'm both pleased and a little surprised (pleasantly) to hear you say this But that's because I believe you can learn things from plants simply by asking them (with appropriate humility). The problem is, without further extensive elaboration, neither of us knows what the other is talking about.

Welcome to sciforums and especially this forum.

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

Sarcasm is an easy weapon to misuse, especially in debates such as this when arrogance and condescending attitudes cause not so subtle inclusions of insults and derogatory innuendos, all under the pretence of humorous sarcasm
I can't tell yet whether you are being genuinely friendly or are just warming up. I'll of course assume the former and give you a warm welcome. But as Maverick says, it is important to watch the plays of others before the real poker begins.

I was very serious about my post, and meant no sarcasm. At some point I may feel the need to share what I've learned from plants, as well other sources. I am new to this forum but not to forums such as these. That does not prevent me from miscommunicating my ideas or intentions periodically. I offended in one post without meaning to, and I felt bad about it - but I had the feeling that decorum is a little strained here right now. Emoticons do not take the place of face to face communication, so I expect people to immediately inform me if I have offended them, and I will apologize immediately (if warranted)

I hope you enjoy the debates here and hope you will be prepared to contribute some real challenging value from your theist perspective, something that the forum lacks at the moment..

I started my path loving science and rational discourse. Cyrenaic Hedonism seemed like a good idea if you included a little Stoicism for balance. What could be a more pleasurable way to the truth but to learn as much as you could and then take your conclusions back to the lathe of other sharply honed minds. I still love science and rational discourse, but I've run full force into walls on a number of occasions where my experiences, anecdotal and subjective as they were, begged for explanations that science, formal logic and rational wisdom couldn't supply.

Did I abandon science, rational thought and skepticism? No. But I've learned alot by moving beyond the boundaries. I've explored several avenues of thought and experience with what I hope is an open but critical mind, reminding myself periodically that I am subject to bias and deception just like everyone else. I've traveled a long path only to reached a curious point in my life: If I could have looked ahead from my early self to what I have become, my earlier self would've sh*t in my pants! "I'll become a lunatic - a "God-Fearing Christian" - Unthinkable! What's more, I believe in spirits, in the ability to communicate through "Extra-Sensory" means (whatever that means) and a war between darkness which means to destroy us and light which means to save us. Madness - I've gone insane!" But for me in the now, each step was marked by an unwillingness to abandon subjective experience simply because it lacked a rational explanation. The journey was also marked by periods of discomfort with new ideas that conflicted with old ideas but resonated with experience.

I guess I'm here to see if I can climb onto the razor and walk along the edge between the physical and the spiritual without getting cut. I believe that religion and science are compatible so long as each is viewed as having areas of overlap as well as areas of mutual exclusivity. The problems begin when adherents of one view stray into areas best addressed by the other. I can only speak for myself and my view of the world from my position in it. However I don't see many people standing around me, so my position may be unique enough to share and give insight, if only into the tragic fall of intellect into madness

 

[heflores]

Originally posted by Vienna
OK, got it so far, you mean like:

Dawn - Conception
Daytime - Life
Dusk - Dying
Night - Dead

Sounds a bit lame, but I'm listening....carry on.

I'm glad someone is giving me a green light. you might be my match afterall Vienna afterall, and I'm too stupid to see it.

Of course as a typical woman, I don't read instructions before I start, so all talk is out of my butt based on intuition, and I welcome corrections and refinement.

To proof that the soul exist, one must think in circular terms. It's actually spherical because of the dimensions, but a circle and a sphere displays similar characteristics, just one is much more simpler than the other to view. By proofing that humans behave in a circular or spherical function, one might say that humans are infinite creatures and not finite ones. One of the characteristic of a sphere is that it's infinite.

Another thing, circular arguments exist for a purpose. They are not useless, actually they point to us the answer very well. So whenever we venue in a circular argument where the answer comes back to the start, it's a proof that the beginning assumption exists but is manifest in a lower function.

Let's examine some examples that we can see in nature and study the behavior of how they go from exist to non exist.
1- Humans (alive to death), but sleep is interesting, sortta like dormancy, they then decompose when they die and seem like final death, but not really, and we'll come back to that
2- Animals: Almost same like humans with a much higher instinct level than human and much less free will to change themselves as human could.
3- Plants (alive to death), but they're very interesting, because they show multiple lifes and death through dormancy seasons when they seem dead but they still come alive.
4- hyrology or the study of water movement. We are all familiar with the hydrologic cycle and know that the water that comes from the sky ends up going back in evaporation transpiration, ect.

So things are in the habit of revolving.....Everything seems to revolve, even arguments. The planets revolve around orbits, the water revolves in a hydrologic cycle, the plants revolve with the function of maintaining a balance of soil function. So what makes us think that humans don't revolve too.

I'll write more later.



3-

 

[spacemanspiff]

So things are in the habit of revolving.....Everything seems to revolve, even arguments. The planets revolve around orbits, the water revolves in a hydrologic cycle, the plants revolve with the function of maintaining a balance of soil function. So what makes us think that humans don't revolve too.

so plants revolve? things go in circles. things can go in circles and still end. plants die. animals die. water, well it doesn't die. but if i wanted i could take some water and seperate it into Hydrogen and Oxygen. no more water.

what does planets orbiting have to do with souls?

and what about things that don't revolve? does that prove that people don't have souls?

 

[Cris]

turduckin,

Sounds good to me. Best of luck with your balancing act.

And I see you are unique as well, just like everyone else.

 

[heflores]

Originally posted by spacemanspiff
so plants revolve? things go in circles. things can go in circles and still end. plants die. animals die. water, well it doesn't die. but if i wanted i could take some water and seperate it into Hydrogen and Oxygen. no more water.

what does planets orbiting have to do with souls?

and what about things that don't revolve? does that prove that people don't have souls?

I'm afraid to say that everything revolves in a cycle. Cycles do not have starts or end just an axis of rotation.

Everything must perform efficiently in the universe including humans. I want you to go and do research on the most efficient shape....

 

[heflores]

Originally posted by spacemanspiff

what does planets orbiting have to do with souls?

A lot actually.

Do you think that from the prespective of the planet it feels as if it's revolving. No. The planet thinks it's stationary and everything is revolving around it....
What is causing the planets to revolve...
Are they singing ring around the rosie???????
No, they are acting to external forces
They're being commanded....I won't jump a million threads and say literally, so forget this line.
Now draw the parralels my friends.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by heflores

What is causing the planets to revolve...

I wish I could get Warren to answer this one but I'll give it a crack just to set you straight... it's just that Warren's post might have had a more appropriate sting.

Uh... Conservation of Angular Momentum.

Yeah, that's it.

 

[heflores]

Originally posted by wesmorris
I wish I could get Warren to answer this one but I'll give it a crack just to set you straight... it's just that Warren's post might have had a more appropriate sting.

Uh... Conservation of Angular Momentum.

Yeah, that's it.

Well until you come back, the planets remain to sing ring around the rosie.....Save them Wemorris, they are relying on you solely. Save the planets......

 

[heflores]

Originally posted by wesmorris
to set you straight...

now don't forget the topic of discussion is not to set me straight .....remeber set the planets straight...focus..if you want to be productive.

 

[wesmorris]

I'll likely stop and butt right out after this post, it's just that well, I've never gotten to use this smiley before...

Originally posted by heflores
Well until you come back, the planets remain to sing ring around the rosie.....Save them Wemorris, they are relying on you solely. Save the planets......

Your post frightens me from a "wow that kind seems kind of dangerously insane" kind of perspective.

*points to something shiny and says "hey look"*

*runs away*

 

[Jaxom]

Originally posted by heflores
Do you think that from the prespective of the planet it feels as if it's revolving. No. The planet thinks it's stationary and everything is revolving around it....

This is your perspective, not the planet's. And it's a relative viewpoint anyway, that doesn't make it a fact.

What is causing the planets to revolve...No, they are acting to external forces
They're being commanded....

Inertia. Actually the reason it still spins now is due to forces such as tidal inertia and the Moon's gravity not being great enough to quickly slow this rotation down. eventually, the Earth will become tidal locked with the Sun, just as the Moon is to the Earth. So no, there's nothing ordering the Earth to continue spinning.

Now draw the parralels my friends.

See why analogies are dangerous?

 

[heflores]

Originally posted by Jaxom
This is your perspective, not the planet's. And it's a relative viewpoint anyway, that doesn't make it a fact.

See why analogies are dangerous?

In Jaxom's pudgin, this mean and let me interpret for everybody:

Your prespective is not welcomed:

But they don't call me tenacious around where I'm from nothing.

 

[heflores]

I would like to know the language of the person I'm talking to:

Jaxom:
In pidgin: It means "your prespective is not welcomed"
In nidgin: it means I'm doing "damage control"
In ridgen that means: I'll come back to you, but I can't appear infront of everyone to not know what I'm talking about.
In kidgen: That means, you're convincing and I want you to stay but I can't agree with you at this point or I'll reach my point of incompetency..


May you please specify the language you're speaking with me Jaxom.......

 

[Jaxom]

English?

Physics?

:bugeye:

You talk of drawing parallels to make your points, but that doesn't always make your conclusions valid. Hence analogies are often faulty, because they are comparisons only, not facts.

 

[heflores]

Originally posted by Jaxom

You talk of drawing parallels to make your points, but that doesn't always make your conclusions valid. Hence analogies are often faulty, because they are comparisons only, not facts. [/B]

Care define fact for me....You see I don't speak physics too well....

Thanks in advance

 

[heflores]

Originally posted by Jaxom

Inertia. Actually the reason it still spins now is due to forces such as tidal inertia and the Moon's gravity not being great enough to quickly slow this rotation down. eventually, the Earth will become tidal locked with the Sun, just as the Moon is to the Earth. So no, there's nothing ordering the Earth to continue spinning.

Okay, I was too strong coming to you asking you to define fact...I don't wish to kill you instantly, I see a great purpose for you in my plan.

I see you mentioned inertia as the cause to the spinning. So at least you didn't take the Atheistic view and denied to attribute a cause for the planet spinning. So we agree there is an order that is making planet revolve, you call it inertia, but you have no proof that only inertia is the sole cause to be attributed to the movement, and you probably can't define in any detail the term inertia for me...

So what is the difference between you and my 2 year old daughter. You told me inertia makes the orbits revolve, my 2 year old would say god is making the orbit revolve. I can't define god to you, so you can't claim it is not inertia and you can't define inertia or I can claim it's not god.....

 

[Jaxom]

Inertia is the tendency for a mass to remain in motion if no forces are applied to it. Inertia is the reason a car needs brakes, or a closer example to yours, why a spun top spins until friction slows it enough to fall.

The Earth's rotation is slowing by a few microseconds a year, due to various forces, but without these forces it would continue at the present speed.

It's one of Newton's laws of motion.