Hey Prince James, is violence my birthright too? Is it my birthright to knock someone unconscious for grabbing my ass, say?
Sexual Discrimination and Violence: Changing men's attitudes
- Thread starter Tiassa
- Start date
Of course not. What he's saying is that the womn bears partial responsibility for putting herself in that situation.
There was an episode of Seinfeld in which his car had a horrible smell he couldn't get rid of. He tried everything. He even tried to trade it in, but the dealer wouldn't take it. So he drove to a bad neighboorhood right in front of some hoodlum, left the keys in the car, and the window down.
What a surprise, the hoodlum stold the car.
Does Seinfeld's carelessness absolve the hoodlum of responsibility? No. But clearly Seinfeld is bears some responsibility for leaving his car completely undefended.
Just as a woman who knowingly drinks until she's blind drunk bears some responsibility for whatever happens.
how is any of that related to rape, sorry but it sounds to me like you accidentally quoted from an equal rights class, I'm all for women getting a fair shake but not under the guise of remaking men into a womans image, rape from my understanding is a control issue, not a sexist issue. I would also like to add that most people that commit violence against anyone isn't going to let a little thing like another guy telling him to not tell a sexist joke stop him from being violent, you may actually make him kill you instead.
More distractions
I'd be interested to see the statistics. It used to be—and probably still is—that you could go to an adult bookstore and buy a three-pack of magazines composed entirely of "letters", stories allegedly written by people at large but obviously created by two or three staff writers. These were always targeted toward men, even when the writer was allegedly female. And yes, there are plenty of fem-dom stories to be found in those publications.
In the meantime, Savage Love. Start here and read the first letter, as well as Dan's response. And then hop over to the next week's column to get the other side of the story. The important point here is that in many cases, a dominatrix is still a tool to fulfill a man's sexual fantasy.
When you're done with Dan, stop by Bitchy Jones' Diary, for a couple of reflections on domination.
Or this one:
It's kind of like a great line from a Billy Wirtz song, "Because when you kiss me with your big, luscious, greasy lips, I realize I'm a very naughty—yes, I need a little discipline! no, please don't make me wear that nurse's dress again tonight!—groveling worm of a love slave!"
I wouldn't argue that it's not sexist in general. I question the premise that it's sexist against men.
Actually, Prince James' assertion of sexual violence as a birthright is relevant despite its perversity, but in the end, it is very telling that the broader men's response to the proposition of examining men's attitudes toward sex, sexuality, discrimination, and violence is to turn the subject back to women, what's wrong with women, and what women should be doing.
When we get right down to it, should we really be surprised that even men are afraid of masculinity?
No. Prince James provides an excellent example:
Violence, certainly, must be the key to civilization. Which is why violence has always existed, yet civilizations only arise after certain other conditions—such as agriculture—develop, and, furthermore, why violence is what destroys civilizations. Indeed, as Sniffy pointed out, "All men are aggressive and violent? And that violent and aggressive men have brought us civilisation? That seems to me a contradiction."
So in the end, what is relevant about the birthright assertion is that it restates a myth long used to justify those who despise civilization. It should be obvious that a tired myth, self-contradicting in its application, does not a rational argument make.
Anything—anything—to blame a man's actions on that devilish siren of a woman, eh?
_____________________
Notes:
Jones, Bitchy. "The Trivial Minutiae of Pervery". Bitchy Jones' Diary. March 21, 2007. http://bitchyjones.wordpress.com/2007/03/21/the-trivial-minutiae-of-pervery/
Wirtz, Rev. Billy C. "Roberta". (Release information missing.)
See Also:
Savage, Dan. "Savage Love: Straight at Last". The Stranger. September 6, 2007. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=309736
—————. "Savage Love: Grant Me Wisdom". The Stranger. September 13, 2007. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=316744
Jones, Bitchy. "My Hero". Bitchy Jones' Diary. June 6, 2007. http://bitchyjones.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/my-hero/
Jones, Bitchy. "Bitchy Jones, What Have You Done?" Bitchy Jones' Diary. February 26, 2008. http://bitchyjones.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/bitchy-jones-what-have-you-done/
Lepustimidus said:
I'd be interested to see the statistics. It used to be—and probably still is—that you could go to an adult bookstore and buy a three-pack of magazines composed entirely of "letters", stories allegedly written by people at large but obviously created by two or three staff writers. These were always targeted toward men, even when the writer was allegedly female. And yes, there are plenty of fem-dom stories to be found in those publications.
In the meantime, Savage Love. Start here and read the first letter, as well as Dan's response. And then hop over to the next week's column to get the other side of the story. The important point here is that in many cases, a dominatrix is still a tool to fulfill a man's sexual fantasy.
When you're done with Dan, stop by Bitchy Jones' Diary, for a couple of reflections on domination.
Or this one:
It's kind of like a great line from a Billy Wirtz song, "Because when you kiss me with your big, luscious, greasy lips, I realize I'm a very naughty—yes, I need a little discipline! no, please don't make me wear that nurse's dress again tonight!—groveling worm of a love slave!"
I wouldn't argue that it's not sexist in general. I question the premise that it's sexist against men.
Actually, Prince James' assertion of sexual violence as a birthright is relevant despite its perversity, but in the end, it is very telling that the broader men's response to the proposition of examining men's attitudes toward sex, sexuality, discrimination, and violence is to turn the subject back to women, what's wrong with women, and what women should be doing.
When we get right down to it, should we really be surprised that even men are afraid of masculinity?
No. Prince James provides an excellent example:
"Violence is the birth right of males, yes. We are violent and that is our nature. It is a beautiful nature that has brought us many fine things. For instance: Civilization."
Violence, certainly, must be the key to civilization. Which is why violence has always existed, yet civilizations only arise after certain other conditions—such as agriculture—develop, and, furthermore, why violence is what destroys civilizations. Indeed, as Sniffy pointed out, "All men are aggressive and violent? And that violent and aggressive men have brought us civilisation? That seems to me a contradiction."
So in the end, what is relevant about the birthright assertion is that it restates a myth long used to justify those who despise civilization. It should be obvious that a tired myth, self-contradicting in its application, does not a rational argument make.
• • •
Madanthonywayne said:
Anything—anything—to blame a man's actions on that devilish siren of a woman, eh?
_____________________
Notes:
Jones, Bitchy. "The Trivial Minutiae of Pervery". Bitchy Jones' Diary. March 21, 2007. http://bitchyjones.wordpress.com/2007/03/21/the-trivial-minutiae-of-pervery/
Wirtz, Rev. Billy C. "Roberta". (Release information missing.)
See Also:
Savage, Dan. "Savage Love: Straight at Last". The Stranger. September 6, 2007. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=309736
—————. "Savage Love: Grant Me Wisdom". The Stranger. September 13, 2007. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/SavageLove?oid=316744
Jones, Bitchy. "My Hero". Bitchy Jones' Diary. June 6, 2007. http://bitchyjones.wordpress.com/2007/06/06/my-hero/
Jones, Bitchy. "Bitchy Jones, What Have You Done?" Bitchy Jones' Diary. February 26, 2008. http://bitchyjones.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/bitchy-jones-what-have-you-done/
tiassa im sorry but your wrong there. Look up a site called literotica.com (happens to be my fav site because i LOVE erotic stories
). There MIGHT be a higher percentage of male writers but that doesnt mean females dont write there or read them either
). There MIGHT be a higher percentage of male writers but that doesnt mean females dont write there or read them either
Still, though ....
I'm familiar with Literotica. Then again, I'm not much on the whole BDSM thing in general. To the other, though, whenever I delve into it, even stories written from a female perspective tend to pander to men. Obviously, it's not universal, but to consider a point raised in one of the Bitchy Jones entries that I linked, but did not quote:
Obviously, it's not the whole truth, but even this kind of empowerment of a woman's role in sexual relations can be tailored to men's needs and phallocentric standards.
_____________________
Notes:
Jones, Bitchy. "Bitchy Jones, What Have You Done?" Bitchy Jones' Diary. February 26, 2008. http://bitchyjones.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/bitchy-jones-what-have-you-done/
Asguard said:
I'm familiar with Literotica. Then again, I'm not much on the whole BDSM thing in general. To the other, though, whenever I delve into it, even stories written from a female perspective tend to pander to men. Obviously, it's not universal, but to consider a point raised in one of the Bitchy Jones entries that I linked, but did not quote:
Obviously, it's not the whole truth, but even this kind of empowerment of a woman's role in sexual relations can be tailored to men's needs and phallocentric standards.
_____________________
Notes:
Jones, Bitchy. "Bitchy Jones, What Have You Done?" Bitchy Jones' Diary. February 26, 2008. http://bitchyjones.wordpress.com/2008/02/26/bitchy-jones-what-have-you-done/
Try www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories, and check out the F/m stories Tiassa. They do NOT pander to men.
I strongly suspect you know nothing whatsoever about the topic. You're just cherry-picking what you want to read.
Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
Not in relation to the rapist. So it is a different kind of responsibility. She does not lower his responsibility this or that many % points. Nor has she contributed to an environment where she cannot get blind drunk, in many circumstances. She bears no responsibility for that.
The responsibility meter does not start clicking when she starts down the dark alley wobbling drunk. Her getting irresponsibility points and then the rapist getting (more) his. Men have already got responsibility for creating an environment where she cannot do what men can do without taking this added risk.
There is a great deal of male focus on the responsibility points that specific 15 minutes the night of the rape. This is facile. We can fight over how to divvy up or allot responsibility points to the two main characters - or more if it is a gang rape.
But the responsibility for rape, for example, is also shared by some men (and some women) who want to focus on the woman's responsibility, for example. The often give lips service, when pressed or in the same sentence, to how bad the rapist is, but their focus often ends primarily on or only on the woman or puts too much weight on her responsibility for being more careful - in those cases where this last is an issue.
To focus on the event is easy. No need to actually look at the culture of rape, something one can contribute to even if one is 'against rape'. This can be, for example, in the form of discussions that boil some guy should have gotten to sleep with this or that women (instead of another guy, or just in general). These discussion create a milieu where women's genitalia are something men have a right to or can earn a right to possess. To contribute to this culture or to sit silently by while other men engage in it also gets responsibility points.
As does focusing on the 'things a woman should or should not have done' and sneaking a lot of anger at women into that 'self-expression' of what seems so 'logical.'
I think these are a few of the reasons people react so negatively to the 'but the woman has responsibilty too' camp.
1) it is confusing two very different kinds of responsibility
2) it is often a code or a way to sublimate blame and aim it at women and lessen the focus on the perpetrator and completely ignore contributions to the culture of rape in general. (iow, in other words, it is often BS)
3) it's easy. rape and the responsibility are over there. a little disconnected event. a bad apple theory. nothing to do with me. I wasn't there.
Visceral Instinct:
I prefer chokeholds and armlocks, personally. But as a woman, violence is not inherent to your nature.
Notable proviso: Women do have a violent streak in them when it relates to their nurturing nature, I.E. the mother bear protecting her cubs.
I prefer chokeholds and armlocks, personally. But as a woman, violence is not inherent to your nature.
Notable proviso: Women do have a violent streak in them when it relates to their nurturing nature, I.E. the mother bear protecting her cubs.
Last edited:
Visceral Instinct:
I am not denigrating being a gentleman, as this chap clearly is. I am merely speaking of the fact that aggression and control are masculine traits. Even a gentleman ought to have a degree of aggression - a sort of manly vigour - that embraces the masculine side. If he didn't, he'd be a wimp. A neebish.
Ideology has a powerful influence in our mindset. How we view ourselves, as opposed to how we are, is governed by our mindset. As such, there can be an attempt to change even when it is ill founded. Furthermore, feminism depends somewhat on a blank slate theory which extends into gender natures.
6'2. He is a former all American wrestler. He also professionally wrestles (fake) aside from legitimate fighting (mixed martial arts). He still fights even if he is hitting 50 now.
Here's a HL of the fight. You can find most of the actual fight on the net, but it is long: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgahDezNBqA
This is before weight classes and gloves and other things were instituted into the sport. Even so, submission wrestling of all types (Brazillian Jiujitsu, Combat Sambo, Judo, Catch Wrestling, et cetera) is very effective, especialy against someone who doesn't know it.
I am not denigrating being a gentleman, as this chap clearly is. I am merely speaking of the fact that aggression and control are masculine traits. Even a gentleman ought to have a degree of aggression - a sort of manly vigour - that embraces the masculine side. If he didn't, he'd be a wimp. A neebish.
Ideology has a powerful influence in our mindset. How we view ourselves, as opposed to how we are, is governed by our mindset. As such, there can be an attempt to change even when it is ill founded. Furthermore, feminism depends somewhat on a blank slate theory which extends into gender natures.
6'2. He is a former all American wrestler. He also professionally wrestles (fake) aside from legitimate fighting (mixed martial arts). He still fights even if he is hitting 50 now.
Here's a HL of the fight. You can find most of the actual fight on the net, but it is long: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgahDezNBqA
This is before weight classes and gloves and other things were instituted into the sport. Even so, submission wrestling of all types (Brazillian Jiujitsu, Combat Sambo, Judo, Catch Wrestling, et cetera) is very effective, especialy against someone who doesn't know it.
Simon Anders
Valued Senior Member
Wow. You might 'make' him kill you. The point isn't to stop a rapist in the moment, it's to challenge the ongoing environment that makes it seem more justified to hate women and to hate women for not letting some men get access to their genitals. You cut down on that environment over time in thousands of small and not so small ways and it is less easy for men to feel justified raping or date raping or ignoring signals that the women doesn't want to talk to you and so on.
Tiassa:
Violence has never destroyed civilization as an idea. It has destroyed specific civilizations. But in their place, civilization of the conquerors comes.
For instance: When Rome was finally conquered, it was replacedy by the seedlings of the modern European nation states.
Furthermore, violence has always existed, you are correct. But it was through that violence that civilization came to pass. Agriculture coincides with the division of labour, which included the apperance of a distinct warrior caste, and in defensible structures (the city of Jericho - the earliest town - had actual historic walls). Furthermore, all civilizations have made an art out of war, and at times when they succumbed to barbarians, the barbarian superiority in warfare helped them secure a new civilization from the ashes before.
War, combat, striving - all depending on men - have oiled the cogs of civilization. Without them, we'd remain in a primitive state without progression further.
Violence has never destroyed civilization as an idea. It has destroyed specific civilizations. But in their place, civilization of the conquerors comes.
For instance: When Rome was finally conquered, it was replacedy by the seedlings of the modern European nation states.
Furthermore, violence has always existed, you are correct. But it was through that violence that civilization came to pass. Agriculture coincides with the division of labour, which included the apperance of a distinct warrior caste, and in defensible structures (the city of Jericho - the earliest town - had actual historic walls). Furthermore, all civilizations have made an art out of war, and at times when they succumbed to barbarians, the barbarian superiority in warfare helped them secure a new civilization from the ashes before.
War, combat, striving - all depending on men - have oiled the cogs of civilization. Without them, we'd remain in a primitive state without progression further.
How much porn should I read?
Why don't you recommend your favorites, Lepus. You know, so that we don't have to go through this whole "cherrypicking" argument again. Because the first three F/m stories I found in the list definitely pander to men.
Next up:
Moving on:
And looking down the list, I'm not even going to bother with "Hannah Montana gets the worst of both worlds", although there are no story codes provided by the author, so it's not necessarily fair to hold that up in response to your claim about F/m domination.
One of the things you need to consider is that most men, in submitting to sexual domination, are pursuing their own gratification. The dominatrix is simply a tool in this sense. And while it is certainly possible to form a lasting relationship around a state of love and trust involved with female domination, it would be a curious and enlightening exploration indeed to delve into the psychology of a male victim who endures degradation and even marital rape in a functionally-similar manner to a sexually-abused and exploited woman.
In the meantime, how much porn would you like me to read in order to satisfy you? Why not be a little more specific than just pointing to a website?
____________________
Notes:
Diaz, Carmenica. "A Delicate Balance: A Subtle Beginning". BDSM Library. June 11, 2008. http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories/story.php?storyid=6465
Palsy, Rolf. "Sisters' Wimp: Part 1". BDSM Library. October 13, 2006. http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories/story.php?storyid=4902
Michael. "Goddess Phyllis: Part 1". BDSM Library. July 17, 2007. http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories/story.php?storyid=5656
Lepustimidus said:
Why don't you recommend your favorites, Lepus. You know, so that we don't have to go through this whole "cherrypicking" argument again. Because the first three F/m stories I found in the list definitely pander to men.
• "A Delicate Balance" by Carmenica Diaz — Synopsis: A young man falls under the domination of a casually cruel older [and] very wealthy woman.
That's awesome: "Candace Bergman". Nothing like a stroke fantasy about Murphy Brown. Speak nothing of "Carmenica Diaz". I mean, come on.
‘I am concerned that you are finding it difficult to discharge your obligations!’
Candace Bergman looked up from the document in her delicate hands to examine the young man standing before her.
He was dressed in navy blue ill fitting suit and cheap shoes. It was the best outfit in his wardrobe and he hoped that Ms Bergman did not notice the gravy stain on the tie. In any case, he kept the jacket buttoned to disguise the small but noticeable green-grey blemish.
She studied him carefully. A young man, fit and in his prime with testosterone bubbling through his veins and yet he was nervous and anxious in her company ....
Candace Bergman looked up from the document in her delicate hands to examine the young man standing before her.
He was dressed in navy blue ill fitting suit and cheap shoes. It was the best outfit in his wardrobe and he hoped that Ms Bergman did not notice the gravy stain on the tie. In any case, he kept the jacket buttoned to disguise the small but noticeable green-grey blemish.
She studied him carefully. A young man, fit and in his prime with testosterone bubbling through his veins and yet he was nervous and anxious in her company ....
That's awesome: "Candace Bergman". Nothing like a stroke fantasy about Murphy Brown. Speak nothing of "Carmenica Diaz". I mean, come on.
Next up:
• "Sisters' Wimp" by Rolf Palsy — Synopsis: Too much of a good thing sends a newly wed husband down the slippery slope leading to his transmission into part pussy slave and all wimp
Let's see, his bride lost her virginity to her older brother; her little sister was curious, "So one rainy afternoon she watched him break in Paula, who at the time was thirteen. Her first experience was not to her liking and so Jill consoled her with her knowing tongue and the two of them began a steamy lesbian relationship that lasted until she moved away ...." Textbook masculine kink.
Jill and I had a great honeymoon featuring plenty of sex including some new stuff that showed our sex life might remain interesting for some time to come. After returning to the reality of making a living, it still was exciting to anticipate the weekends that were our time to experiment and refine our love making techniques. Jill was training me to be as she described it, "a champion p@ssy eater" and to date I had been a good student, getting mostly B+s and an occasional A, when I got her off in under a half hour. She on the other hand demonstrated great technique when it came to giving me the kind of blowjob that I always dreamed of when I was still single. What got my juices to really flow was the way she swallowed every drop and then smacked her lips noisily and with a wicked grin inquire if perhaps she might continue and see what might develop further. On some weekends I'd delivered load after load until she was satisfied that I could last long enough to really give her a good f@cking and bring her off ....
Let's see, his bride lost her virginity to her older brother; her little sister was curious, "So one rainy afternoon she watched him break in Paula, who at the time was thirteen. Her first experience was not to her liking and so Jill consoled her with her knowing tongue and the two of them began a steamy lesbian relationship that lasted until she moved away ...." Textbook masculine kink.
Moving on:
• "Goddess Phyllis" by Michael — Synopsis: Goddess Phyllis, her mother, and sister turn a submissive "man" into their personal shit eating whore.
That is just hilarious. Pure masculine fantasy. The story consists (so far) of thirty-five chapters posted over the course of nearly a year. Some of the chapter titles are dead giveaways: "Anal Elly", "Chemaine" (followed by "Chemaine's Mom" and, shortly thereafter "Chemaine's New School" and "Chemaine Dominates the Headmistress"), "Ailan, Nelly and Mom F@ck Jack", "Anal Ecstasy and Wet C@nts", "Dog and Daughter" ... yeah.
I remembered that face as soon as I saw her. Phyllis’s younger sister. I had been jerking off to her, Phyllis and their mother, Elly, since I was a teenager. I always imagined that Elly, starting at a very young age, taught her girls all about the power of sex and the p@ssy. How to use both to get anything you want. How to seduce a woman or man. I never imagined that all that was true, and then some.
So, thirty years later, here I was with Karen, looking at that face and thinking of what the rest would look like. They were all blonde, very fair. Mother Elly was huge, a good 350lbs of raw sexual power. Phyllis was a gorgeous teenager and youngster, face of an angel. Baby Karen was a younger Phyllis type, blonde and beautiful. She grew up to be a beautiful woman, tall, all legs, big breasts, and still angelic. I had a date with her, and here I am, thirty years later.
So, thirty years later, here I was with Karen, looking at that face and thinking of what the rest would look like. They were all blonde, very fair. Mother Elly was huge, a good 350lbs of raw sexual power. Phyllis was a gorgeous teenager and youngster, face of an angel. Baby Karen was a younger Phyllis type, blonde and beautiful. She grew up to be a beautiful woman, tall, all legs, big breasts, and still angelic. I had a date with her, and here I am, thirty years later.
That is just hilarious. Pure masculine fantasy. The story consists (so far) of thirty-five chapters posted over the course of nearly a year. Some of the chapter titles are dead giveaways: "Anal Elly", "Chemaine" (followed by "Chemaine's Mom" and, shortly thereafter "Chemaine's New School" and "Chemaine Dominates the Headmistress"), "Ailan, Nelly and Mom F@ck Jack", "Anal Ecstasy and Wet C@nts", "Dog and Daughter" ... yeah.
And looking down the list, I'm not even going to bother with "Hannah Montana gets the worst of both worlds", although there are no story codes provided by the author, so it's not necessarily fair to hold that up in response to your claim about F/m domination.
One of the things you need to consider is that most men, in submitting to sexual domination, are pursuing their own gratification. The dominatrix is simply a tool in this sense. And while it is certainly possible to form a lasting relationship around a state of love and trust involved with female domination, it would be a curious and enlightening exploration indeed to delve into the psychology of a male victim who endures degradation and even marital rape in a functionally-similar manner to a sexually-abused and exploited woman.
In the meantime, how much porn would you like me to read in order to satisfy you? Why not be a little more specific than just pointing to a website?
____________________
Notes:
Diaz, Carmenica. "A Delicate Balance: A Subtle Beginning". BDSM Library. June 11, 2008. http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories/story.php?storyid=6465
Palsy, Rolf. "Sisters' Wimp: Part 1". BDSM Library. October 13, 2006. http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories/story.php?storyid=4902
Michael. "Goddess Phyllis: Part 1". BDSM Library. July 17, 2007. http://www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories/story.php?storyid=5656
Now I've seen everything. Second-rate erotica in scholarly references on a message board.
Oh Tiassa, you are the living end.
Oh Tiassa, you are the living end.
Tiassa:
Even if that were true, it's a non-sequitur. I'll let you figure out why. Hint: It's still degrading to men.
You're not looking hard enough. Cherry picking, as usual. There are numerous stories on the first page where submissive men are forced to serve as toilet slaves (ergo. eating shit), are forcibly milked and raped (often by other submissive men at the wish of the dom), suffer severe physical and emotional abuse, etc. I could waste my time posting the synposis of each, but I won't. If you actually engage in journalistic integrity, you'll find them on your own. Have fun. Some of the erotica on that site is actually quite good.
Even if that were true, it's a non-sequitur. I'll let you figure out why. Hint: It's still degrading to men.
You're not looking hard enough. Cherry picking, as usual. There are numerous stories on the first page where submissive men are forced to serve as toilet slaves (ergo. eating shit), are forcibly milked and raped (often by other submissive men at the wish of the dom), suffer severe physical and emotional abuse, etc. I could waste my time posting the synposis of each, but I won't. If you actually engage in journalistic integrity, you'll find them on your own. Have fun. Some of the erotica on that site is actually quite good.
Speaking of integrity ... oh, right. It's you.
Your argument to make and demonstrate. Especially the non-sequitur bit. You would seem to be arguing that the reduction of a woman to a mere tool to serve a man's sexual gratification is unrelated to the question of whether and how a form of pornography or sexual relation is sexist.
Once again, the argument of cowards: I could make my case, but I won't.
Sorry, Lepus. I'm not going to spend my days and nights reading pornography just to address your non-thesis. If you engage in academic integrity, you'll be able to provide something to work with. As it is, it sounds like you're saying that you think this is the way it goes, but you can't find any evidence, so everyone else just has to guess.
Lepustimidus said:
Your argument to make and demonstrate. Especially the non-sequitur bit. You would seem to be arguing that the reduction of a woman to a mere tool to serve a man's sexual gratification is unrelated to the question of whether and how a form of pornography or sexual relation is sexist.
Once again, the argument of cowards: I could make my case, but I won't.
Sorry, Lepus. I'm not going to spend my days and nights reading pornography just to address your non-thesis. If you engage in academic integrity, you'll be able to provide something to work with. As it is, it sounds like you're saying that you think this is the way it goes, but you can't find any evidence, so everyone else just has to guess.
And men are reduced to mere tools to serve a woman's sexual gratification in femdom. Even better, men are mere tools to serve a woman's sexual gratification in pornography, full stop. Keep up, tiassa.
I've already made my case. It was www.bdsmlibrary.com/stories. There is an abundance of erotica there where males are reduced to shit eating pain slaves, simply existing to please their mistresses and scrounge any gratification that she might grant them (which is usually very little). How is that NOT degrading to men? If 'Girls Gone Wild' is somehow sexist, how on earth is Femdom not sexist?
Your observation that most men enjoy what is described in Femdom erotic is not only bullshit (how many men enjoy eating shit? In fact, one of the stories you quoted made it quite clear in the synopsis that the submissive male was deleted to a shit eating slave) it's also a big non-sequitur, as it doesn't change the fact that the men in these situations have been demoted to the status of a sex slaves to be whipped, degraded and abused by a dominant female.
There are some huge inconsistencies in your ideology that you really need to be ironed out. Maybe one day you'll get around to it. But quite frankly, I don't have the time to sit around spoon feeding you and reading through your exhaustive posts.
Poor oppressed you
Ooh. The arbitrary, because-you-say-so counterpoints. Persuasive.
I took the first three stories I encountered that met your criteria. You complained that I was cherry-picking. Yet when asked to provide examples, you flat refuse.
Document that observation.
I would think you would know better than I do. After all, you've spent more time with this sort of stuff:
In the meantime, since you're the expert, how many women enjoy reading about men eating shit?
Take it up with the man who wrote it. Tell him how degrading he's being to his fellow men.
Yes, you've certainly established yourself as one who is qualified to make such assessments.
Of course you don't. You don't even have the time to make a half-assed argument.
Either put up a real argument or quit your goddamn bawling.
Lepustimidus said:
Ooh. The arbitrary, because-you-say-so counterpoints. Persuasive.
I took the first three stories I encountered that met your criteria. You complained that I was cherry-picking. Yet when asked to provide examples, you flat refuse.
Document that observation.
I would think you would know better than I do. After all, you've spent more time with this sort of stuff:
"Some of the erotica on that site is actually quite good."
In the meantime, since you're the expert, how many women enjoy reading about men eating shit?
Take it up with the man who wrote it. Tell him how degrading he's being to his fellow men.
Yes, you've certainly established yourself as one who is qualified to make such assessments.
Of course you don't. You don't even have the time to make a half-assed argument.
Either put up a real argument or quit your goddamn bawling.