i do have to agree there tiassa. Your very nieve if you think because your male your safe. My boss and his son were walking to there car from work when they were set apon by a group of drunk morons. My boss told his son to run while he tried to draw then off but they went after his son so he was forced to chase them down rather than leading them to the cop shop near work. The morons ended up beating the both of them and they could have killed them
Sexual Discrimination and Violence: Changing men's attitudes
- Thread starter Tiassa
- Start date
Yeah, I know of quite a few males who have been bashed at the stations in Melbourne and the suburbs (Springvale and Nobel Park). One friend of a friend was beaten so badly, their retinas detached.
I haven't heard of any women getting bashed in this area. Which is a good thing, I guess!
I haven't heard of any women getting bashed in this area. Which is a good thing, I guess!
Ok...
See above... Oh, and what point are you so ineffectually trying to make again?
Good, wouldn't want to scare you or anything...
Random word of the day:
pom·pous
1. Characterized by excessive self-esteem or exaggerated dignity; pretentious: pompous officials who enjoy giving orders.
2. Full of high-sounding phrases; bombastic: a pompous proclamation.
3. Chracterized by pomp or stately display; ceremonious: a pompous occasion.
Enjoy....
superstring01
Moderator
The interesting thing I keep hearing from those who place some of the burden of rape upon women is that there is a "thing" (i.e. dressing differently, acting differently) that they can do to assuage the predatorial nature of some men. In fact (outside juvenile date-rape situations), the number of instances where rape is actually about sex is vanishingly small. Rape is always about dominance. If a man wanted sex, there are easier ways to get it.
Rapists act the way they do less because of dress than because of some psychological/sociological motivation that sems from deep seated insecurity. Rapists select their targets by familiarity and by a sense that they could dominate that person. Usually, there is little a person can do beyond carrying a handgun or a shiv that could bring a favorable outcome to a rape situation.
~String
Rapists act the way they do less because of dress than because of some psychological/sociological motivation that sems from deep seated insecurity. Rapists select their targets by familiarity and by a sense that they could dominate that person. Usually, there is little a person can do beyond carrying a handgun or a shiv that could bring a favorable outcome to a rape situation.
~String
i agree string. To a point anyway, there are SOME ways that can lower the chances in CERTAIN SITUATIONS. For instance anyone can ask security to come with them to there car if they are at uni at night but they paticually encorage women to call security. Also parking your car in an area that is well lit can lower the risk. However no one can lower there risk to zero sadly
How does this differ from violent assault in general?
Asguard:
Drunk morons = easy to beat up. Why didn't they team up and start kneeing faces?
Drunk morons = easy to beat up. Why didn't they team up and start kneeing faces?
Superstring01:
That is just plum nonsense. Rape is PRIMARILY about sex. The act is SEXUAL in nature and the evolutionary psychology of rape indicates that it is a mating practice.
Or know basic BJJ.
That is just plum nonsense. Rape is PRIMARILY about sex. The act is SEXUAL in nature and the evolutionary psychology of rape indicates that it is a mating practice.
Or know basic BJJ.
Are you saying violence, intimidation and control are not factors in rape?
Or just not the primary factors?
Randwolf:
Not primary factors.
The goal is sex.
The means are violence and intimidation.
Not primary factors.
The goal is sex.
The means are violence and intimidation.
Possibly. What can men do about this? What can women? Anything?
Randwolf:
I gave several rules of thumb for women to avoid rape.
For men, I'll quote Cyrus the Virus from Con Air: If your dick goes flying out of your pants, you go flying out of this plane.
I gave several rules of thumb for women to avoid rape.
For men, I'll quote Cyrus the Virus from Con Air: If your dick goes flying out of your pants, you go flying out of this plane.
It seems, then, that at least some people believe there are ways to reduce the chances of being a victim of sexual assault.
This very idea brings the weirdos out of the woodwork, to the point of insanity. I don't understand. Especially when we get to the concept of transferance, i.e. if I don't get raped, that just means soemone else will. What is that? In any event, at least we're discussing the issue and what can be done about it...
Notes Around
Maybe in your corner of the world.
The strange thing is that I keep hearing about how the United States is the violent place. Maybe if I was in Melbourne and its suburbs, I would be more afraid.
A note for Randwolf
Ask as many times as you want. It won't change the fact that you've been answered already. And if, having the answer laid out with specific references—and then reiterated in response to your puzzlement—you are still incapable of comprehending, that's your own damn problem.
In the meantime:
When the idea is raised as an excuse for not addressing men's conduct, it isn't perceived as genuine.
Quite clearly.
It is your own distortion. The simple fact is that your focus on a woman's role in being raped does nothing to address the problem of rape in general. And, given a topic to discuss men's attitudes and behavior, you still turn your attention back to women.
And yet you would insist on turning the discussion away from the problem of rape in general, shifting the burden of the threat to the victims instead of contributing to any reduction of the general threat. And no, it's not really a matter of wondering why. Given your high regard for self-interest above all else, it's not hard to figure out why.
Lepustimidus said:
Maybe in your corner of the world.
• • •
Asguard said:
The strange thing is that I keep hearing about how the United States is the violent place. Maybe if I was in Melbourne and its suburbs, I would be more afraid.
• • •
A note for Randwolf
Ask as many times as you want. It won't change the fact that you've been answered already. And if, having the answer laid out with specific references—and then reiterated in response to your puzzlement—you are still incapable of comprehending, that's your own damn problem.
In the meantime:
Randwolf said:
When the idea is raised as an excuse for not addressing men's conduct, it isn't perceived as genuine.
Quite clearly.
It is your own distortion. The simple fact is that your focus on a woman's role in being raped does nothing to address the problem of rape in general. And, given a topic to discuss men's attitudes and behavior, you still turn your attention back to women.
And yet you would insist on turning the discussion away from the problem of rape in general, shifting the burden of the threat to the victims instead of contributing to any reduction of the general threat. And no, it's not really a matter of wondering why. Given your high regard for self-interest above all else, it's not hard to figure out why.
Strawman. No one is raising this idea as an excuse for not addressing men's conduct. The rapist is culpable. Can we agree on that, tiassa? How about, so is the mugger, the murderer, the thief, etc?
Alien life forms are incomprehensible, yet fascinating... This would be you, tiassa.
Let's address "the problem of rape in general". Is it not made of its constituent parts? How do we address the whole without breaking it down? This is getting so repetitive.
Why, tiassa, do you insist on "burden", as opposed to responsibility? Whether you equate rape to any other act is really irrelevant in this context, precautions are sensible.
Do you know I actually agree with you? The world ought not to be the way it is? But, it is. Now what can we do to live safer lives, individually?
What is your issue with individual responsibility?
P.S. - do you ever sleep? Or does your species not require this?
superstring01
Moderator
Actually, you are wrong. Open up a psychology book. Rape is a violent act done so in order to demonstrate dominance. Forced sex is merely the gateway. Rape is very rarely about "getting" off. Just because a man ejaculates doesn't mean it's about the sex. The reason why a man turns to rape isn't because of mental insecurity and dominance issues and has nothing to do with the woman, at all. Rape is prevelent in conservative and liberal societies alike. The only reason why you "think" there are more rapes in liberal societies is because the stigma (at least in part) is assuaged, and because the perps are brought to justice far more often.
You can state our disagreement with this outcome but time, studies, and even former rapists attest to the fact that it was always about venting pent up emotions regarding their deep seated insecurities.
Some sites I found through a cursory search.
From Family Survey: "Rape is about power, not sex. A rapist uses actual force or violence — or the threat of it — to take control over another human being."
From Rape Victim Advocates: "MYTH: Sexual assault is a crime of passion and lust.
Sexual assault is a crime of violence. Assailants seek to dominate, humiliate and punish their victims."
From WOAR: "Fact: Rape is a violent and serious crime. Rape is sexual intercourse (vaginal, oral, or anal) without consent. Rape is not about sexual attraction, but rather desire for power over another person."
From University of California: " Sexual assault is not sex; it is violence."
~String
(Insert title here)
You are: "What about women?"
Here's a hint, genius—you already spent your load on that. This topic was intended to talk about men. Quit bawling about women.
Apparently the only part worth breaking down, as far as you seem to be concerned, pertains to women. See above.
Because your open-ended precaution theory has no reasonable and prudent boundaries. In fact, you openly refused them.
And so we just surrender?
Well, given that the only individual responsibility you seem to be interested in is a woman's, I think your disproportionate focus is the problem. After all, you seem to object in some way to instilling a sense of personal accountability in men. ("What about women?")
The latest in your attempts to personalize the dispute and further distract from the point at hand only weakens your argument. After all, you might be as thoroughly repugnant as the character you play, but that's not really mine to worry about. There are more important things to worry about than you as an individual.
When you figure that out, the world will make a bit more sense and be at least a little less scary.
Randwolf said:
You are: "What about women?"
Here's a hint, genius—you already spent your load on that. This topic was intended to talk about men. Quit bawling about women.
Apparently the only part worth breaking down, as far as you seem to be concerned, pertains to women. See above.
Because your open-ended precaution theory has no reasonable and prudent boundaries. In fact, you openly refused them.
And so we just surrender?
Well, given that the only individual responsibility you seem to be interested in is a woman's, I think your disproportionate focus is the problem. After all, you seem to object in some way to instilling a sense of personal accountability in men. ("What about women?")
The latest in your attempts to personalize the dispute and further distract from the point at hand only weakens your argument. After all, you might be as thoroughly repugnant as the character you play, but that's not really mine to worry about. There are more important things to worry about than you as an individual.
When you figure that out, the world will make a bit more sense and be at least a little less scary.
'You are: "What about women?"'
"Here's a hint, genius—you already spent your load on that. This topic was intended to talk about men. Quit bawling about women."
Let's...
Tiassa, let's just skip to the heart of the matter. What, if any, practical measures do you propose to combat this admittedly abhorrent and repugnant social problem? Emphasis on "practical", by the way.
Just in the interest of "context', there bub...
"Here's a hint, genius—you already spent your load on that. This topic was intended to talk about men. Quit bawling about women."
Let's...
Tiassa, let's just skip to the heart of the matter. What, if any, practical measures do you propose to combat this admittedly abhorrent and repugnant social problem? Emphasis on "practical", by the way.
My attempts? At least I "attempt" to couch my animosity in humor...
Anyhoo ....
See #1894446/16 and your response in #1894478/19.
Maybe if you paid more attention to the posts you responded to, you wouldn't be asking such questions. Oh, right. At any rate, nobody is pretending that changing men's attitudes toward women in this culture is an easy task. This is acknowledged in the topic post, which also suggests that such changes are a generational proposition.
Randwolf said:
See #1894446/16 and your response in #1894478/19.
Maybe if you paid more attention to the posts you responded to, you wouldn't be asking such questions. Oh, right. At any rate, nobody is pretending that changing men's attitudes toward women in this culture is an easy task. This is acknowledged in the topic post, which also suggests that such changes are a generational proposition.