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No. Not believing is not a stance & it does not necessarily require an idea.
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How so ?
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No. Not believing is not a stance & it does not necessarily require an idea.
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///How so ?
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1st, someone claimed a reason is required & you claim it is a stance & those are such which should be asked how so.
Even so : There is a god & there is not a god are stances which require reason(s). I do not know whether there is a god is obviously not a stance.
The god of the Christian bible cannot exist (stance) because it is too contradictory (reason). Again, I do not know is not a stance.
Thru most of history, the vast majority of humans never heard of the jewish god, the moslem god or the christian god. They had no reason to believe in any of them & they certainly needed no reason to not believe.
Even recently in the USA, some children of atheists were never told about gods & needed no reason to not believe. Then when they eventually encountered theists & were told about god(s), they yet needed no reason to not believe but would have needed a reason to begin believing.
IF Bigfoot is someday proven to exist, I will have reason to believe. Until then I have no reason to believe it & I need no reason to not believe it.
Not believing is the natural default until we have reason enough to believe something.
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Once an idea is posited, I think one automatically puts in place reasons to support the position one takes, whether to believe it or not. Without the idea in the first place, though, the person has no position on it that requires reason.///
Some or most atheists may have reason(s) to not believe in god(s) yet not believing does not necessarily require reason(s).
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I disagree. If there are two doors in front of you, one "God exists", the other "God does not exist", then walking through either door is taking a position. But standing your ground and not walking through either is also a position.Even so : There is a god & there is not a god are stances which require reason(s). I do not know whether there is a god is obviously not a stance.
Sure, but not believing is not the same as believing in the opposite. Not believing that God exists is not the same as believing that God does not exist.Not believing is the natural default until we have reason enough to believe something.
///Once an idea is posited, I think one automatically puts in place reasons to support the position one takes, whether to believe it or not. Without the idea in the first place, though, the person has no position on it that requires reason.
I.e. until I suggest the existence of Latugah the warrior Prince of Ximene IIa, you have no reason to believe or not. But now the idea of his existence has been posited, you will either believe or not believe - and either of those positions, I would argue, would be internally reasoned... even if that reason is "it's made up", or "I have no evidence" etc.
So I would say that any atheist who is aware of the issue of God's existence will have a reason. In the absence of that awareness (e.g. a baby), the absence of belief would be unreasoned.
///I disagree. If there are two doors in front of you, one "God exists", the other "God does not exist", then walking through either door is taking a position. But standing your ground and not walking through either is also a position.
Not knowing whether or not there is a god is actually the reason for most people to take that latter position: why do they not believe that God exists, nor believe that God does not exist? For most it is because they lack knowledge one way or the other.
Sure, but not believing is not the same as believing in the opposite. Not believing that God exists is not the same as believing that God does not exist.
And all three of those (belief in existence, belief in non-existence, no belief) are all positions that require reason once the notion of the thing's existence is touted. In my experience the reason for no belief is almost always the lack of knowledge.
Yet we are asked about belief in God rather frequently, are we not?///
I am not convinced of that. I cannot see being exposed to an idea making it necessary to have a reason to not believe it.
If we say the reason I do not believe in X is that I never heard or thought of X, seems quite silly to me. Anything I have heard or thought of yet do not believe, the best I can come up with is that I am not convinced & calling that a reason seems to be desperately clinging to the reason notion. Possibly except for the very few things I changed my mind on but those yet come down to the basic fact that I am simply not convinced.
May as well say the reason I do not believe X is that I cannot believe X & the reason I cannot believe X is that I have no reason to believe X. Now ask me why I have no reason to believe X.
I see that you often apply reason here. I do not know about elsewhere. If your thinking is similar enough to mine, perhaps you are a bit stuck on it & cannot see any exceptions.
We should not be asked why do you not believe unless it concerns well established fact.
But if one has considered it then not choosing is itself a position. That is my view.///
I often do not choose any of 2 or more options simply because I am not convinced to choose any or I simply do not care for any & that is not necessarily taking a position. Sometimes I cannot choose any.
I think not being convinced always involves reasons. There are reasons why the information / evidence is not convincing, even if "gut feel". I just don't see that we can do anything without reason. Boredom. Apathy. For a laugh. Low risk for high reward. Seems to make sense. All these are possible reasons.In my experience, it always come down to being convinced or not being convinced. Being convinced involves reason(s). Not being convinced sometimes involves reason but not necessarily.
But there are reasons you consider it silly. And then there are reasons why you don't participate in such silliness.There are 3 doors : God exists, God does not exist & I do not know. If I go thru the 3rd door, I am simply going with the 1 which applies to me. I probably would simply not participate in such silliness. Why would I not? Simply because that is the way I am & I did not decide to be that way.
I agree. But there are reasons one is not convinced.If I am convinced of something, I must believe it. If I am not convinced, I cannot believe it.
Both of these examples are positions. You are saying a considerable amount about your position by saying "I don't know". You are saying that you can not make a choice because of a lack of knowledge. In my book that is very much a position.Will there be omelets at the pot luck breakfast? I do not know. I simply do not know.
Is there life on other planets? I simply do not know & that is not a position.
Theists claim many things and yet not one claim is delivered with supporting evidence.Many theists would claim the aliens are demons.
Well thats what theists believe in effect happens in that they think God talks to them in such a way they perceive it as real.He needs to come out and shake my hand and introduce himself. That's how relationships work.
but yours is so inconsistent it is like you have a tumble-drier of ideas and you have no control over which sock you pull from it.
///Well thats what theists believe in effect happens in that they think God talks to them in such a way they perceive it as real.
And preserve a confidence that it can only be right.
That the way it is..some individuals need it I guess.
I am going to focus on the good side which would have a faith in a God producing positive results like curing drug adiction ...Well not curing it but used by someone to pull through a difficult point in life and when they pull thru they see their prayers as answered and so they are in Gods debt sortta.
Alex
///He pulls out the lost sock
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Lost socks go to a parallel universe.
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///Do you think the IS lives there and is only a visitor here?
///What is wrong with it?
You can't, that is correct. But you can choose what you accept.
You have no real reason to be an atheist, other than you do not accept God.
Why do you think it my responsibility to convince you of God? If you're comfortable with being an atheist, stay that way. I think you intermix theism, and Christianity.
If you keep telling yourself that, you will believe it. That's how you got to be atheist in the first place, according to the bible.
Jan.