Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that’s not a joke

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Before trying to discuss whether atheists exist, whether theists exist should have been established.

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[Jan Ardena]

As usual, you try to take the coward's way out.

You have to take it there, don't you.

Capital letters are not proper for the words god & is.

It works if you're conveying a distinction. Otherwise it becomes confusing.
Stubborn refusal to comply, shows prejudice, of which bitterness, and anger are friendly bedfellows.

Still, you give us no reason to believe you believe.

At least you're beginning to admit that just because somebody professes something, it doesn't make it true.
The point is, one does not need to profess one believes in God, anymore than one doesn't believe in God.
That's the point of ''God Is''. One cannot not believe in God, in reality. Only in their individual mind. Which kind of lends itself to the point of the thread.

If you do not believe, you are an atheist.

This is simply you professing that.
Of course it is entirely possible that I could profess to be an atheist.
But it doesn't mean anything, other than me professing to be an atheist.
Nothing changes. Only in my individual mind.
God Is. That is what professed atheists are trying to run from.

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Before trying to discuss whether atheists exist, whether theists exist should have been established.

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Theist = belief in God.
Atheist = not belief in God.
Common denominator = God.

That was the way it was when we all came into this world.
Just go with it, because there is nothing you can do about it.

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Well I try to limit its use but certainly it is a word that fits well in this thread.

Alex

Do you really think that, or is that you letting go of some frustration?

Because from where I'm sitting, the thread seems fine (it would be better if we face, not run from, the topic), which is why it is so popular.
You should be happy that we can talk about this, rather than being sad, miserable, and bitter.
While we're on the subject of things you should do, you should also get back on topic.

jan.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

You have to take it there, don't you.


It works if you're conveying a distinction. Otherwise it becomes confusing.
Stubborn refusal to comply, shows prejudice, of which bitterness, and anger are friendly bedfellows.



At least you're beginning to admit that just because somebody professes something, it doesn't make it true.
The point is, one does not need to profess one believes in God, anymore than one doesn't believe in God.
That's the point of ''God Is''. One cannot not believe in God, in reality. Only in their individual mind. Which kind of lends itself to the point of the thread.



This is simply you professing that.
Of course it is entirely possible that I could profess to be an atheist.
But it doesn't mean anything, other than me professing to be an atheist.
Nothing changes. Only in my individual mind.
God Is. That is what professed atheists are trying to run from.

jan.

///
Still, you give us no reason to believe you believe.
So you are an atheist. I suspected it.

If anything, it is the capitalizing which demonstrates prejudice. Stubborn refusal to comply? Who the heck do you think you are. You do not tell me what to comply with, no matter how huge or fragile your ego is.

YOU took it there.

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[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Theist = belief in God.
Atheist = not belief in God.
Common denominator = God.

That was the way it was when we all came into this world.
Just go with it, because there is nothing you can do about it.

jan.

///
I know the definitions. The point is whether anyone actually believes a god exists.

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[Musika]

///
There is a count of the posts in the Jokes thread. They are certainly far from countless & the vast majority are not about religion.
YOU spammed the Jokes thread.
I do not need to understand the aliens who abducted you in order to post jokes about aliens. I do not need to understand your dog in order to post dog jokes. I do not need to understand your marriage to post marriage jokes.
Again, the jokes work fine. They are jokes in the Jokes thread. Get over it.

It does not matter whether I know what god is. I know that people have many different beliefs about god & gods. I have no way to know what god you refer to & what it is like unless you say.
Some silly people refer to the universe as god. For all I know you are referring to your left big toe.
Unlike you, I do not go on assumptions.
Being obtuse, obstinate & obnoxious does not get you anywhere except in your delirious dreamworld.

<>

So in the other thread, things go on as smoothly as a google search engine yet in this thread you need special cliff notes to distinguish your big toe from God.

I guess that is as close as we can expect you to get to an honest admission which thread you are trolling.

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Ouch! Much more of these crushing come-backs,

Jan I am so very sorry I keep forgeting how facts can cause you grave difficulty.

I will be extra careful not to crush the egg shell reality in which you find yourself in.

I'll have to call up Aussie's God Talent

Are they a christian biker gang?

Huh!

I was wondering if you were making a mental note to yourself not to hide in the bucket of sand I think you imagine around your neck but I figured you had created an incorrect mental picture of me to sooth you confused position.

No one likes etc

My inferior atheist intellect cant grasp the complex proposition you now introduce.

I understand that if you take on board my observations, that its all made up, you would change your world view, not that I could take responsibility for that after all it would be no more than you deciding to think critically about your folly.

Its in your hands in my point.

It's not your fault really, you have been conned by the best con machine known to man but I have faith you will beat them as you realise my facts are irrefutable.

Look in the north side of your beard.

Seek and ye shall find I guess.

I do enjoy my reading of the bible.

I find so much that is not what you expect.

I found about three references to someone "pissing up the wall" in relation to wastfulness ...who would have thought such would be in the bible.

How many using that phrase would realize it came from the bronze age.

Good to see you have some ambition.

I live for the day Jan.

Besides my astro photography and looking after my immence collection of assetts I have little to do...I do enjoy thinking about your God even though he is made up.

Seriously who would have thought this thread would run for so long.

Clearly you have a dedicated audience who attend but unfortunately I fear they only wait for you to fall. You will be ok its not that far. ..ease yourself down slowly.

The site owner should have you on the pay roll.

You have a good day too, Alex

Thank you Jan but without my reading material it will not be easy.

Maybe I will process some astro photos but it just wont be the same.
Alex

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

So in the other thread, things go on as smoothly as a google search engine yet in this thread you need special cliff notes to distinguish your big toe from God.

I guess that is as close as we can expect you to get to an honest admission which thread you are trolling.

///
So you are atheist too! I suspected it.

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[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

The Big Bang never happened. I have a better theory. There is no need to explain anything. It will be good enough to just repeat this over&over&over & accuse people of just rejecting & denying it while also claiming they actually believe my theory.

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[Jan Ardena]

///
I know the definitions. The point is whether anyone actually believes a god exists.

<>

On the contrary. The question is whether anyone actually doesn't believe in God. Think about it.

jan.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

On the contrary. The question is whether anyone actually doesn't believe in God. Think about it.

jan.

///
No. That cannot be properly addressed until we see whether anyone actually believes in a god.
If no 1 believes in a god or gods, everyone is atheist.
How long have you been atheist?

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[Jan Ardena]

I understand that if you take on board my observations, that its all made up, you would change your world view, not that I could take responsibility for that after all it would be no more than you deciding to think critically about your folly.

Let's say I did. How does that change anything.
All it would mean is that I have a reason to profess atheism.
I forget who said it but it has been said that ''Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist" .
And that's all it is. It says nothing about truth, or reality.

...for that after all it would be no more than you deciding to think critically about your folly

Name calling? Really?
That bible quote really got you spooked, huh!

You should use some of your critical thinking skills (I presume you have them based on the quote) to try and understand what it means, rather than waste time taking offense.

1 Seek and ye shall find I guess.

2 I do enjoy my reading of the bible.

1 So simple, yet so true.

2 You should take it a little more seriously. It is a hard read, like any other scripture. And like many other scriptures, it has many levels of understanding.
Whether you are a neophyte, or an advanced spiritual master, you can learn from it.

Clearly you have a dedicated audience who attend but unfortunately I fear they only wait for you to fall. You will be ok its not that far. ..ease yourself down slowly.

I may fall. I've never claimed to be beyond that.
But my point will always remain. That is why there is this dedicated audience.
You don't fear me, you fear God.

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

No. That cannot be properly addressed until we see whether anyone actually believes in a god.

I'm not really discussing gods.
One can not believe in God, but believe in gods.
God Is. You know it, and I know it. I believe in God, you don't. That's what's going on.
The problem is, you have become so entrenched in your disbelief, that you now believe there is no God, and stubbornly cling to the idea that God has to be shown to exist, in order for you to believe.

If no 1 believes in a god or gods, everyone is atheist.

Professed atheists to be exact.
I believe it will be inevitable, that at some point in the future, that scenario will be the case.
I believe that scenario is necessary for the destruction of civilisation, and the harbinger of end times.

How long have you been atheist?

Every time I don't think about God, every time I just eat food without offering to, or thanking God, every time I think I own stuff, makes me an atheist.
So while your question was a facetious one, it rings true, but not in the way you intended it to.

While we're here discussing God, it is in all our spiritual interest. Even if it is negative.

jan.

 

[Sarkus]

To show how a position that lacks any prescriptive description becomes an automatic non-discussion point. If a world outlook doesn't manifest any essential or ideal behaviours, it ceases to be a world view (or more accurately, it becomes mere window dressing for what is actually one's world view). Existence is not passive.

It doesn't become a non-discussion point at all. That you see it does may speak to your purpose for discussion, but you do not speak for everyone. Some people believe in God, others do not. What is there not to discuss in that difference, whether that difference ultimately leads to differences in lifestyle or not? Yes, as said, theism often leads to religion and, in my view, that is where the lifestyle differences arise. But in theism itself? I'm still waiting for you to example any differences.

At the very least, theism equates to ideas of piety vs sin, liberation vs bondage, Gods will vs the will of humans, etc. It becomes difficult to understand how one could profess a theistic outlook and not address incumbent behaviours of such an outlook (unless they are watering it down to a mere window dressing for atheism, which also has its incumbent behaviours - namely a strict noncompliance with behaviours incumbent on the will of God,etc).

"Will of God"? What exactly is the will of God, from a purely theistic point of view, as opposed to the will that one might claim it to be due to whichever religion they follow.
And yes, no doubt theism does lead to ideas of piety v sin, liberation v bondage etc, but unless those things have a discernible lifestyle difference upon that person compared to that of an atheist, you're left simply describing aspects of what you consider to be an "automatic non-discussion point". So again, please provide examples to support your position. You don't seem to think that the atheist can have ideas of liberation v bondage, and perhaps you think atheists lack any sense of good v evil?

If you want to talk about theism divorced from any specific religion, then you are talking about spiritualism, which is basically a trickle down amalgamation of one or more religions.

I am talking about theism v atheism. Not religion. Given that one is quite capable of being a theist without adopting a religion, and being religious without being theistic, it seems honest to keep the discussion to that which was raised, notably theism and atheism, as well as agnosticism. Not religion.
If you wish to claim that one can not be theistic without adopting a religion... that will take some considerable support from you. So the question remains: what examples are you going to provide of the notable differences in lifestyle from being a theist or atheist. Again, without recourse to religion, if you will.

Depends entirely on what it is window dressing for. I provided an example where it promoted atheism (despite an apparent external affiliation to a religious institution), although I could just as easily provided an example where it promotes theism.

You provided an example where agnostic theism promoted atheism?? You seem confused.

Unless you want to discuss agnosticism from the position of the bipolar, where the determination periodically vacillates from one extreme to the other, agnosticism lacks any incumbent behaviours. So you you have either people who "really don't know" but inevitably default to behaviours incumbent of atheism or theism. So for an agnostic atheist (someone who professes they "dont really know", yet for all intents and purposes acts as if there is no God), the decision to move into fully fledged atheism would not provide any new incumbent behaviours.

"Fully fledged atheism"??? You are being fairly derogatory with your terminology. I am a fully fledged atheist. I lack belief in God. That is all there is to the label. If what you mean by that term is "strong atheism" please have the decency to use it.
I also disagree that someone simply decides to move into any theistic position, whether it be atheism or theism. I can not become a "fully fledged atheist" simply by choice.
Furthermore, moving to "fully fledged theism" would not provide any new incumbent behaviours either. One is either a theist (they believe in God) or they are not, whether they are agnostic about it or not. How does moving to knowing about God necessarily change one's behaviour? Sure, religion can and does have behaviours associated but, once again, this is not about religion but about theism itself.

Where things of this world are the end and everything else, but a means to them.

And you think agnostic theism promotes this? Do you know any agnostic theists, perchance?

In a broad sense, this world does not belong to us, and so prescriptive descriptions come forth to explain how to approach this world. Since existence is not passive, we have no choice but to approach this world in some manner or other.

One does not need to be a theist to have this worldview, nor do theists necessarily have to have this worldview. Religions may promote it, though. Care to try again?

It seems strange that you would ask such a q. Discussion forums like these are stocked to the hilt with dialogues and discussions about how certain behaviours are intrinsic to a godly life vs the rejection of such behaviours. As mentioned already, the very broad categories of piety vs sin, liberation vs illusion etc.

It seems bizarre that you would, yet again, fail to actually provide any concrete examples. If you think the "very broad categories of piety v sin, liberation vs illusion" (although previously you used the term "bondage") are concrete examples then you're not exactly showing how the atheist behaves differently for not having these - where they may well have alternative worldviews that provide for exactly the same behaviour.
So, once again, please can you provide some concrete examples. It surely shouldn't be so tricky for you that you continually seek to evade it.

On the contrary, if one cannot isolate specific behaviours with one's world view, it is apparent one is not discussing the core elements of one's world view.

Who said agnosticism is a core element? It certainly isn't mine, and likely not many agnostics. It is simply the result of the way one thinks about things. And who said atheism is a core element? Sure, some people's theism is core to them, but once again not to every theist, and those for who it is, the behaviour seems to be driven mostly by the religion they are part of.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

I'm not really discussing gods.
One can not believe in God, but believe in gods.
God Is. You know it, and I know it. I believe in God, you don't. That's what's going on.
The problem is, you have become so entrenched in your disbelief, that you now believe there is no God, and stubbornly cling to the idea that God has to be shown to exist, in order for you to believe.



Professed atheists to be exact.
I believe it will be inevitable, that at some point in the future, that scenario will be the case.
I believe that scenario is necessary for the destruction of civilisation, and the harbinger of end times.



Every time I don't think about God, every time I just eat food without offering to, or thanking God, every time I think I own stuff, makes me an atheist.
So while your question was a facetious one, it rings true, but not in the way you intended it to.

While we're here discussing God, it is in all our spiritual interest. Even if it is negative.

jan.

///
That is not what's going on.
I do not know god is. IF I knew there is a god, I would believe it. Without knowing, I cannot believe it. No matter how long or how much you babble nonsense & absurdly claim to know what you cannot know.
You are the 1 entrenched in your fantasy. That is if you are sincere, which I do not believe.
As you perpetually persist in your illogical babbling without saying much, I must conclude you do not believe in a god. Nothing facetious about that.

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[Jan Ardena]

perhaps you think atheists lack any sense of good v evil?

Let's assume there actually is no God.
Would you agree we couldn't know it as a fact?

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

I do not know god is.

In the same way you don't know what folks who live on 44 main st, in Cambridge, UK, had for lunch yesterday.
Subconsciously though, you know God Is. At least according to the basic underlying theme of the thread.

IF I knew there is a god, I would believe it.

Which is why you reject and deny God.
''The fool has said in his heart, there is no God.''
You can't even bring yourself to capitalise God, such is the influence of your rejection, and denial.

Nothing facetious about that.

I'm going to leave you with that, because I think you're becoming unhinged.

jan.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

In the same way you don't know what folks who live on 44 main st, in Cambridge, UK, had for lunch yesterday.
Subconsciously though, you know God Is. At least according to the basic underlying theme of the thread.



Which is why you reject and deny God.
''The fool has said in his heart, there is no God.''
You can't even bring yourself to capitalise God, such is the influence of your rejection, and denial.



I'm going to leave you with that, because I think you're becoming unhinged.

jan.

///
I do not know there is a god. I cannot believe what I do not know. I cannot reject what I do not know exists. Consciously or subconsciously or whatever the heck you come up with.
I do not believe you believe there is a god. I do not pretend to know you do not believe tho I see extremely little evidence that you might.
You do not know what I think, believe or know & it is utter stupid childish foolishness to pretend you do. Are you 9 years old???
Regardless of what you say or think, I am not a theist. I know that. YOU do not know. You can take my word for it or not but you do not know.

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[Jan Ardena]

///
I do not know there is a god. I cannot believe what I do not know. I cannot reject what I do not know exists. Consciously or subconsciously or whatever the heck you come up with.
I do not believe you believe there is a god. I do not pretend to know you do not believe tho I see extremely little evidence that you might.
You do not know what I think, believe or know & it is utter stupid childish foolishness to pretend you do. Are you 9 years old???
Regardless of what you say or think, I am not a theist. I know that. YOU do not know. You can take my word for it or not but you do not know.

<>

Fair enough.

jan.