Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that’s not a joke

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Why would monotheism be considered a more desirable option today, when its terrestrial equivalents of kings and dictators have mostly been replaced with today’s models of delegated authority more resembling polytheism?
I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Its not clear how philosophically moving into the realm of ultimate causes establishes a relationship or precedent on how human communities must organize themselves.
It becomes even less clear how you can explain modern democracy as arising outside of monotheistic thought, much less within polytheistic thought
 
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Perhaps if you take your head out of that bucket of sand around your neck, you may find out.
Like your God there is no bucket of sand it is just something you imagine...sand bucket and God.

Seriously though. You need to come up with something new.

Are you enjoying a little self talk Jan or are you suggesting that I find something better than the fact the whole thing is made up and a suoersytitious remnant of the bronze age when folk did not know where the Sun went at night.

I would move on to even more revealing facts but I feel sometimes you have not completly accepted the facts I present.
It is as though you ignore the facts I resent but no worries facts remain facts trresoective of you ignoring them or not.
Look I did want to offer more facts to show its all made up but I cant fimd my bible to go to page two.

Jan I just want to be here when this thread gets to 100 pages so I can say. ..We have had 100 pages now and thanks to the side stepping of theists we have to conclude atheists exist and theists have no race car in the garage.

Have a good day Jan keep up the good work but if you can find the time see if you can find something to back up your various unsupported claims and take this thread to a whole new level.

Alex
 
I specifically said that there is "considerable overlap between the ontological matter of a/theism and the epistemological issue of a/gnosticism." So why are you now trying to state the same thing to me?
To show how a position that lacks any prescriptive description becomes an automatic non-discussion point. If a world outlook doesn't manifest any essential or ideal behaviours, it ceases to be a world view (or more accurately, it becomes mere window dressing for what is actually one's world view). Existence is not passive.

Sure, my perspective is one of an agnostic atheist, and when I speak of my own position I am of course speaking exclusively about myself as an agnostic atheist. Would you expect it to be any different? But as also said, my view of the theist mindset, whether agnostic or not, is not something I find easy, if possible, to put myself into to be able to state what lifestyle changes there might be. I thought I made all that quite clear.
Theism doesn't necessitate the belief in an eternal existence under God. Many branches do, sure, but it is not necessary to be a theist. Whether the theist does or not seems to be related to the religion they follow, not theism per se.
At the very least, theism equates to ideas of piety vs sin, liberation vs bondage, Gods will vs the will of humans, etc. It becomes difficult to understand how one could profess a theistic outlook and not address incumbent behaviours of such an outlook (unless they are watering it down to a mere window dressing for atheism, which also has its incumbent behaviours - namely a strict noncompliance with behaviours incumbent on the will of God,etc).

If you want to talk about theism divorced from any specific religion, then you are talking about spiritualism, which is basically a trickle down amalgamation of one or more religions.

As to what you think agnostic theism promotes
Depends entirely on what it is window dressing for. I provided an example where it promoted atheism (despite an apparent external affiliation to a religious institution), although I could just as easily provided an example where it promotes theism. Unless you want to discuss agnosticism from the position of the bipolar, where the determination periodically vacillates from one extreme to the other, agnosticism lacks any incumbent behaviours. So you you have either people who "really don't know" but inevitably default to behaviours incumbent of atheism or theism. So for an agnostic atheist (someone who professes they "dont really know", yet for all intents and purposes acts as if there is no God), the decision to move into fully fledged atheism would not provide any new incumbent behaviours.

- what do you mean by "dedicated to worldly pursuits"?
Where things of this world are the end and everything else, but a means to them.

And what do you consider to be the "prescriptive ideals of theism"?
In a broad sense, this world does not belong to us, and so prescriptive descriptions come forth to explain how to approach this world. Since existence is not passive, we have no choice but to approach this world in some manner or other.

Are you going to actually example any? Or is this simply another case where you say "it's obvious" but never actually provide an answer? It does seem the nature of theists, at least on this forum, to simply seek to dismiss alternative viewpoints with no actual substantive argument.
Please, provide concrete examples, as asked (three times now.
It seems strange that you would ask such a q. Discussion forums like these are stocked to the hilt with dialogues and discussions about how certain behaviours are intrinsic to a godly life vs the rejection of such behaviours. As mentioned already, the very broad categories of piety vs sin, liberation vs illusion etc.

Then I would say your understanding of agnosticism seems rather naive, or perhaps merely warped by your theistic perspective.
On the contrary, if one cannot isolate specific behaviours with one's world view, it is apparent one is not discussing the core elements of one's world view.
 
Everything we experience is physically real,
we just don’t commonly interpret realty as such.
Evidencing that is either impossible or takes the form of begging the question.

A tree, a person, a brain and the thoughts it expresses can all be identified as episodic organizations of material stuff,
You used the word "identified" when you should have used "interpreted".

by stuff I mean everything from asteroids to the most basic elements of existence. For example, a notion of justice would exist as a recognizable pattern of neurologic activity among a population of given organisms in a given location and time.
Feel free to open a thread that distinguishes justice from injustice purely in terms of neurological activity and see how long it remains out of the cesspool.

That would be one of countless interpretations of that identifiable expression of physicality, each being contextually dependent.
No need for countless identifications. At this stage we would settle for even one .... although it is interesting that the notion of interpretations frequently finds itself in the realm of "countless".

The only uniformity I’m addressing is that all processes are contextual, in that they can be infinitely viewed as many, or collectively viewed as one. When viewed as many they can be perceived as independent. When viewed collectively that illusion of independence perspectively disappears. The processes of Gods and ants can be contextually delineated in one sense, and also be shown to be elemental cogs of a greater process in another.
You are claiming all processes can be identified (although here you use the word "view"..... one step closer to "interpretated" perhaps) through material processes ... with a particular emphasis on processes currently known to humans .... as the ontological ceiling for reality. This does nothing to establish elemental cogs of a greater process. The contextual limits of what you could talk about are how current developments in human technology and understanding contextualize previous efforts in the same department.

OK, then unsaddle the burden of biology and see how far it gets you.
Philosophers, mathematicians, scientists, artists, engineers, architects, historians, bakers and all others who deal with subjects that are not limited by the discipline and language of biology do it all the time. It seems to work well for them.

What exactly do you think enables you to actively engage the reality you inhabit if not the biology that animates your body and mind?
Given that the best biological arrangements for animating the body and mind have met with failure rates of 100% since time immemorial, something other than biological arrangements.

As far as we know, all life on earth is currently biologically based, and therefore constrained by the nature of their biology. I would think it reasonable to assume that life in any form, where ever it exists would be constrained by its particular underling operational framework. The same would logically apply to gods should they be shown to exists.
Given the broader "biology" of God, namely being attributed as being all pervasive and the active ingredient of all forms of creation, sustainability and annhilation, its not clear what would exist to be the "constraining" element.
 
Yep. One of which was "Show the evidence that God exists at all and everyone will be glad to learn more."

So yes, there is evidence that there is no evidence.

Well actually, W4U said ...

There is nothing to learn about God.
At the very least, one could learn about the position of God ... it would help deal with all the sqwawking about evidence and belief.

Show the evidence that God exists at all and everyone will be glad to learn more.
Given the standard of what he, you and many others demand in the in the name of "evidence", it is just like pointing to a tape measure and saying "show me infinity or negative four".

This is why they call it belief. You think you know something about God but it is an uncontrolled hallucination,
Umm evidence?
Of course the next question is whether all "beliefs" are "uncontrolled hallucinations", or merely the ones that challenge W4U's beliefs.

a subjective internal mental imagecreated by your own mind and not accesible to anyone else.
An attempt to explain this claim in terms of evidence would also be another event that would warrant a comfortable seat and a rather large bucket of popcorn.
 
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You perpetually try to ask why not when the question is why. You will not answer, you only try to sidestep.
IF you cannot explain god more than this & why you believe , we must conclude you do not actually believe in any god.
You may as well say you believe in a wisp of smoke.

<>
In the jokes thread you are posting countless google search engine cliches that cannot function as jokes unless you have a pretty clear idea of what God is.
So either (to afford you the greatest charity) you are spamming incoherent posts in this thread or that one.
Which is it?
 
To show how a position that lacks any prescriptive description becomes an automatic non-discussion point.
And all of Taoist and Buddhist insight is set aside as non-discussion points, along with atheism in general (there is no given "position" in general).

Ok. Back to my continuing contribution: the only substantial discussion based on the OP of this thread would be why such falsehoods are posted on science forums by theists.

In the jokes thread you are posting countless google search engine cliches that cannot function as jokes unless you have a pretty clear idea of what God is.
One particular God - the Abrahamic mono-deity. Are you claiming that there is no pretty clear idea of that God available to educated Westerners and underlying the OP falsehood that launched this thread?
 
And all of Taoist and Buddhist insight is set aside as non-discussion points, along with atheism in general (there is no given "position" in general).
Why?
You can't fathom anything prescriptive about them?

Ok. Back to my continuing contribution: the only substantial discussion based on the OP of this thread would be why such falsehoods are posted on science forums by theists.
You have been setting the scene with your swaggering indignation for some time now.
I think we are ready now for ACT 1.
 
One particular God - the Abrahamic mono-deity.
No.
Plenty of jokes there that are not even that specific.

Are you claiming that there is no pretty clear idea of that God available to educated Westerners and underlying the OP falsehood that launched this thread?
I am claiming that the same guy who is running around in this thread querying "which god?" does a fine job in not struggling with such q's in a separate thread.
 
Given the standard of what he, you and many others demand in the in the name of "evidence", it is just like pointing to a tape measure and saying "show me infinity or negative four".
Nope. Just take that tape measure (or anything really) and give us something you can prove. Anything.
Umm evidence?
Yes, evidence. Something that is required in the real world to substantiate belief.
Of course the next question is whether all "beliefs" are "uncontrolled hallucinations", or merely the ones that challenge W4U's beliefs.
There are plenty of valid beliefs. You may believe that the sun will rise tomorrow; there is plenty of evidence to support that. You may believe that Cthulu will stop the Earth's rotation at midnight. Is that an "uncontrolled hallucination?" That's a matter of opinion. Is it supported by evidence? No.
 
You're entitled to conclude what you like, just like God. The only difference is, God is perfectly correct. You are prone to error, just like any other human.

I bet this will go straight over your head.

Jan.
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It is not what I like. It is logical.
God is not correct until it gets up the courage to come out of hiding & show itself. What is it afraid of?

<>
 
Well where have we been and where have we got to.

Where have we arrived?

Clearly atheists exist and they fail to match Jans straw man of an atheist which he can only comprehend as folk who dont believe in his mythical made up God and reject something he just knows is real or exists...I am never sure exactly what Jan is putting forward and who knows what he is really thinking.

We are able to consider the folly where Jan and other theists find themselves and unable to escape teir circular arguemets... which is the failure to realise many folk simply do not buy the worn out God stories born out of superstition in the bronze age when folk did not know where the Sun went at night.

The God story has been demonstrated to be made up and the author of the creation event shown to report on an event when, by the creation story, there was no human present to witness the various steps this mythical God took to create the world... and the first human male from a mud pie and the first human female using a rib from that single human male...an extrodinary claim that remains an extrodinary claim because no one can offer evidence that God let in a sole, as yet to be created, human to have a box seat at creation and record the account.

And yet even with such a water tight presentation of facts the claims that a God exists continue and the attempt by any atheist here to exttact information about this mythical God fail due to the now undeniable sidestepping we now know is all the theists can do when asked a simple question as to why they have decided to in effect live in a world of superstition similar to the bronze age.

And I return here today and read the posts and notice the sidestepping continues and instead of restricting himself to throwing tomatoes Jan now throws meaningly one liners in the same fashion an ape throws his crap around his cage and at passers by.

So we find there is no lack of evidence to show atheists exist who simply dont believe in a God or Gods leaving Jans proposition demonstratably wrong and perhaps shows how casual Jan considered the proposition he put forward.

We find the God story starts with a lie which is somewhat a recurring feature what with the flood story and its 800 year old human building a boat with his 100 year old sons.

And of course by the time one gets to read a second hand account of a God visiting a backwater in the Mediteranian the continued lies become so common that one tends not to notice how that qualifies the content.

These theists have no problem it seems accepting the superstitious explanations for their world by relying upon the superstitious stories from the bronze age...and one wonders if these modern theists know where the Sun goes at night given they are happy to ignore the accumulated knowledge of the modern era.

Our theists have proved themselves to be capable of making wild claims then throw poo at anyone who politely asks for some reason why they are so superstitious and rivetted in the bronze age.

Atheists are real and God is made up and that fact will stand and walk through the superstition down the road of eightenment whilst our theists side step and throw poo and make as much sence as their poo throwing cousin the ape.

There is only one God and that is Thor I know that in my heart and so does everyone else but they can only reject and deny him.

I joke of course...the fact is there are no Gods a fact that our resident theists are unable to sidestep or hit with their poo flings.

Alex
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I do not have a big problem with people living for 1oos of years. 1 of the many problems tho with the Holy Babble is most seem to have children only after 100s of years. Absurd.
While I have never known an adult who did not know where the sun goes at night, I have known many who do not know what stars are & are mystified by eclipses.
May the AllSeeing Eye Of AllFather Odin watch over you.

<>
 
Firstly, I wasn't angry.
Secondly. Didn't you read that description of God, given by SB (thanks SB). "God" with an upper-case G, is One.
So people can't worship God's. The idea alone is illogical.
What you meant to say was, "people have worshipped gods throughout history, right up to the present day.
Do you get it now.



How is it possible to have more than one God, if God is One, without a second.

Jan.
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How is it possible to have only 1 god when there are many gods.
Many gods is much more logical than 1 god. Nearly everything which exists, there are many of. Monotheism came into being by combining gods in order to claim a more powerful god than others.
People can & do worship gods as much as you worship your wisp of smoke.

<>
 
the only substantial discussion based on the OP of this thread would be why such falsehoods are posted on science forums by theists.

Yes indeed.

What is the motivation of the theist to mishandle the truth or let their delussions go untreated.

What is their motivation to side step requests to support their claims.

So open with their proclaimation that a God exists yet like a crab they walk sideways and right off the road to enlightenment in their efforts to avoid questions asked to seek what they hold to be the truth.

I do think the decent thing to do is to appologise when one finds they have made a false statement or presented an observation such that others may be mislead or be caused to arrive at a conclusion that is formed as a result of being mislead. ..it seems rather clear Jan could, perhaps should, notwitstanding his possible plea of inoccence or ignorance, and simply say he is sorry...his failure to say sorry would leave us with a sad conclusion about the motivation in his heart , er mind, perhaps reinforcing an initial conclussion that he has a lack of inoccent action rather than falling to his ignorance.

Nevertheless I think a greater question exists and that is why do theists think they fool anyone but themselves.


Alex
 
In the jokes thread you are posting countless google search engine cliches that cannot function as jokes unless you have a pretty clear idea of what God is.
So either (to afford you the greatest charity) you are spamming incoherent posts in this thread or that one.
Which is it?
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There is a count of the posts in the Jokes thread. They are certainly far from countless & the vast majority are not about religion.
YOU spammed the Jokes thread.
I do not need to understand the aliens who abducted you in order to post jokes about aliens. I do not need to understand your dog in order to post dog jokes. I do not need to understand your marriage to post marriage jokes.
Again, the jokes work fine. They are jokes in the Jokes thread. Get over it.

It does not matter whether I know what god is. I know that people have many different beliefs about god & gods. I have no way to know what god you refer to & what it is like unless you say.
Some silly people refer to the universe as god. For all I know you are referring to your left big toe.
Unlike you, I do not go on assumptions.
Being obtuse, obstinate & obnoxious does not get you anywhere except in your delirious dreamworld.

<>
 
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Like your God there is no bucket of sand it is just something you imagine...sand bucket and God.

Ouch! Much more of these crushing come-backs, I'll have to call up Aussie's God Talent.

Are you enjoying a little self talk Jan or are you suggesting that I find something better than the fact the whole thing is made up and a suoersytitious remnant of the bronze age when folk did not know where the Sun went at night.

Huh!

I would move on to even more revealing facts but I feel sometimes you have not completly accepted the facts I present.

I wonder why? :D

It is as though you ignore the facts I resent

No one likes sloppy seconds.

Look I did want to offer more facts to show its all made up but I cant fimd my bible to go to page two.

Look in the north side of your beard.

Jan I just want to be here when this thread gets to 100 pages so I can say. ..We have had 100 pages now and thanks to the side stepping of theists we have to conclude atheists exist and theists have no race car in the garage.

Good to see you have some ambition.

Have a good day Jan keep up the good work but if you can find the time see if you can find something to back up your various unsupported claims and take this thread to a whole new level.

You have a good day too, Alex.

jan.
 
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