Scientists discover that atheists might not exist, and that’s not a joke

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Jan Ardena said:
More importantly, I don't think anyone is an atheist in the true sense of the word.
I agree with the article.
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The article makes no firm claims that one can agree with.
The OP is an Abrahamic theist's dishonest misrepresentation of a piece of scientific research. As such it is typical - we see such posting frequently on science forums.
And it does not directly assert that atheists do not exist - that would create accountability, something such people avoid if at all possible (using, for example, weasel outs such as "true sense" of "atheist" that can mean anything required).
Instead, it asks bad faith questions phrased to frame the issue, and makes vague allusions to undescribed situations and categories.
 
Dr_Toad said:
'Bout as much as Jan, except she doesn't talk so damned much about inconsequential bullshit.

Silence is one gift from God that so many folks don't appreciate. Try lying on a mountaintop, so still that you can hear the wind over the vulture's wings as he investigates you.

See the world upside down at sunrise, then go whitewater canoeing.

Walk up on a coyote, a cougar or a bear, and ask them about gods.

Come back, and we'll talk.
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I'm ready to talk. I've experienced every single example you mentioned. Did not get much reply from the animals, as is to be expected. We had a lot of wild-life come to visit us. But then, we had bags of cat food which apparently is a favorite among almost all forest dwellers.

Except the vulture in my story was a Hammerhead shark swimming past and I felt its wake, but I have lain on a mountaintop as well as on the ocean floor.....:)
 
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I've never done the ocean thing. Every time I've been to the coast I get nipped by crabs, scraped by barnacles or stung by jellyfish.

And to think I once had dreams of being an oceanographer...

I think I like you. Just don't scrape me with barnacles. That shit hurts.
 
Now what kind of sin is that? Who's going to punish your soul if you do reject 'it'?

Funny as hell.
 
Jan Ardena said:
Professed atheists are.
Whether they can truly be atheists? I don't think so.

jan.
Click to expand...

Hi Jan
It is interesting to hear your view Jan it certainly helps understand you better.

I gather from all you have said you think we are born with the belief in a God somewhat like an instinct.

And that science even confirms this fact for you in your belief.

That condition of, lets call it, instinct I suppose is possible given superstition seems to go back a long way for humans.

The first seems to be worship of the female, understandable given at a basic level the female is the most important part if human survival.

Then animal worship again understandable for hunters.

Then Sun worship understandable for humans as they moved into agriculture.

Then as some of the humans saw profit in religion and opportunity to control the mob we find they become the Sun or at least a relation.

So superstition has a long history.

Humans could well evolve with a built in reliance on superstition I suppose and it certainly seems that you have this instinct or trait that enables you to believe things that say I would not.

I can imagine that the prospect of a genuine atheist must be rather confronting if indeed you have an instinctual acceptance of a God.

I understand that God must play a big role in your life and that your belief is so strong you can not, even as an exercise, consider a world without a God.

It is difficult for an atheist to understand that a theist actually really believes what we see as nonsense.



And so I think I can understand why you can not accept there could be someone who just does not believe in a God and that suggests your exposure to folk outside your world has been minimal or non existent.

Your beliefs are yours and you seem to manage the various problems with religion which for others like me would be a deal breaker.

I guess there are some theists that are reasonable people but I find it alarming when I watch utube or the Atheist Experience and observe the folk that are involved in religion.

It is the faith healers, the folk who talk in tounges, and the scientifically ignorant that worry me.

I suppose by themselves they are harmless but no doubt politicians have to pander to them to some degree such that they exert some influence.

The other types who concern me are those who seize on a part of the bible as being good teaching and yet ignore the stuff that is simply wrong..either as facts or as morality.

This suggests a disconnect with reality which is always dangerous for inoccent bystanders.

Then we have all the folk exploiting simple folk by asking for cash for a new jet or money to build another mansion and it is those people who make a mockery of religion both of themselves by standing out as liars and hypocrits and they make a mockery of the gulible folk who are the victim of their con job.

Then as I have said before when you look at the various utube vids all you seem to get are believers who just out and out lie.

And they do lie...

And then we have the anti science folk...they are so ignorant of science it is almost criminal...it is just that wrong.


I hope there is a God who turns up one day and rounds up all these evil folk exploiting simple folk and gives them a very very very stern warning not to be bad.

I do think the superstition instict will leave humans in time as there is no need for it these days.

I could see how it would have been helpful in the past.

I mean folk probably would not obey the law of the clan leader to not cut trees on the hill above the village but if you introduce a God of the mountain who will fry you if you cut down his trees ... well simple folk will stay off the mountain and not cut down trees...
If you gave them a valid reason not to cut down the trees because that will lead to landslides they would ignore reason...but instill fear of an angry mountain God and not one tree will fall...
And that principle is at play today as clearly there are many who fear hell and it would seem that cear prevents them from assessing the God claims rationally.

Then the fear of death...well religion fixes that fear with the promise of an afterlife.

A God has the advantage that a believer thinks they are being watched at all times and so the law is self policed to a large degree.

What amazes me is you and well all believers never wonder why God is not around...or why he can save a child apparently when he drops a miracle and yet lets thousands die and no one asks why would a God save one and ignore so many others...and then we have the wars...not Gods fault because those humans have free will...but how can humans have free will when God has revealed his plans thru prophesy which indicates free will must be set aside.

Anyways Jan it has been a priveledge to observe a live theist in your good self and learn about what you believe.

Alex
 
Dr_Toad said:
Now what kind of sin is that? Who's going to punish your soul if you do reject 'it'?
Click to expand...
Atheists?.......:biggrin:....... we have lots of experience in that. No option for repentance and absolution in the eyes of god. It becomes self-examination and the hardest thing to do is forgive yourself. Because you can never absolve yourself.
Funny as hell.
Click to expand...
I agree......:biggrin:
 
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Xelasnave.1947 said:
Hi Jan
It is interesting to hear your view Jan it certainly helps understand you better.

I gather from all you have said you think we are born with the belief in a God somewhat like an instinct.

And that science even confirms this fact for you in your belief.

That condition of, lets call it, instinct I suppose is possible given superstition seems to go back a long way for humans.

The first seems to be worship of the female, understandable given at a basic level the female is the most important part if human survival.

Then animal worship again understandable for hunters.

Then Sun worship understandable for humans as they moved into agriculture.

Then as some of the humans saw profit in religion and opportunity to control the mob we find they become the Sun or at least a relation.

So superstition has a long history.

Humans could well evolve with a built in reliance on superstition I suppose and it certainly seems that you have this instinct or trait that enables you to believe things that say I would not.

I can imagine that the prospect of a genuine atheist must be rather confronting if indeed you have an instinctual acceptance of a God.

I understand that God must play a big role in your life and that your belief is so strong you can not, even as an exercise, consider a world without a God.

It is difficult for an atheist to understand that a theist actually really believes what we see as nonsense.



And so I think I can understand why you can not accept there could be someone who just does not believe in a God and that suggests your exposure to folk outside your world has been minimal or non existent.

Your beliefs are yours and you seem to manage the various problems with religion which for others like me would be a deal breaker.

I guess there are some theists that are reasonable people but I find it alarming when I watch utube or the Atheist Experience and observe the folk that are involved in religion.

It is the faith healers, the folk who talk in tounges, and the scientifically ignorant that worry me.

I suppose by themselves they are harmless but no doubt politicians have to pander to them to some degree such that they exert some influence.

The other types who concern me are those who seize on a part of the bible as being good teaching and yet ignore the stuff that is simply wrong..either as facts or as morality.

This suggests a disconnect with reality which is always dangerous for inoccent bystanders.

Then we have all the folk exploiting simple folk by asking for cash for a new jet or money to build another mansion and it is those people who make a mockery of religion both of themselves by standing out as liars and hypocrits and they make a mockery of the gulible folk who are the victim of their con job.

Then as I have said before when you look at the various utube vids all you seem to get are believers who just out and out lie.

And they do lie...

And then we have the anti science folk...they are so ignorant of science it is almost criminal...it is just that wrong.


I hope there is a God who turns up one day and rounds up all these evil folk exploiting simple folk and gives them a very very very stern warning not to be bad.

I do think the superstition instict will leave humans in time as there is no need for it these days.

I could see how it would have been helpful in the past.

I mean folk probably would not obey the law of the clan leader to not cut trees on the hill above the village but if you introduce a God of the mountain who will fry you if you cut down his trees ... well simple folk will stay off the mountain and not cut down trees...
If you gave them a valid reason not to cut down the trees because that will lead to landslides they would ignore reason...but instill fear of an angry mountain God and not one tree will fall...
And that principle is at play today as clearly there are many who fear hell and it would seem that cear prevents them from assessing the God claims rationally.

Then the fear of death...well religion fixes that fear with the promise of an afterlife.

A God has the advantage that a believer thinks they are being watched at all times and so the law is self policed to a large degree.

What amazes me is you and well all believers never wonder why God is not around...or why he can save a child apparently when he drops a miracle and yet lets thousands die and no one asks why would a God save one and ignore so many others...and then we have the wars...not Gods fault because those humans have free will...but how can humans have free will when God has revealed his plans thru prophesy which indicates free will must be set aside.

Anyways Jan it has been a priveledge to observe a live theist in your good self and learn about what you believe.

Alex
Click to expand...
There probably was religious abuse way back then as well. We cannot say, at such early time, it was mostly good or mostly bad. Evolution is not survival of the best. It is much more survival of the lucky. IF it is correct there was a superstition instinct, those with more of it may have just happened to survive & reproduce more.
Very little of it is clear-cut. 1 tribe may have survived attack by hiding in those trees while another may have been killed by the enemy creeping thru the trees.

<>

<>
 
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StrangerInAStrangeLand said:
There probably was religious abuse way back then as well. We cannot say, at such early time, it was mostly good or mostly bad. Evolution is not survival of the best. It is much more survival of the lucky. IF it is correct there was a superstition instinct, those with more of it may have just happened to survive & reproduce more.
<>
Click to expand...
There always was a superstitious instinct, an evolutionary extension from the fundamental instinct of "fight or flight" and yes, it would certainly aid in the evolution by natural selection of survival techniques.

Proof of "unseen imaginary beings" (superstition) can be found in the observed fact that during a thunder-storm, alpha male Chimpanzees vocally and by gesture warn and take aggressive defensive actions against the unseen enemy above, who makes him and his family scared with loud noses and throwing fire and water, making him wet and miserable, and angry...:eek:
su·per·sti·tion, noun
  1. excessively credulous belief in and reverence for supernatural beings.
    "he dismissed the ghost stories as mere superstition"
    synonyms:unfounded belief, credulity, fallacy, delusion, illusion; More
    • a widely held but unjustified belief in supernatural causation leading to certain consequences of an action or event, or a practice based on such a belief.
Click to expand...
 
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StrangerInAStrangeLand said:
We cannot say,
Click to expand...
Sure but we can make things up...guess how I learnt that.

I do think it is a pity that when God was made up they did not give him a female partner...I can see why they would not want a female partner given the unhealthy preoccupation with treating sex as a sin etc.

And one wonders why do the women of the world accept a God represented as male to the exclusion of one half of humans...does not seem well thought out.

I mean if I was inventing a God I would certainly have two....

I think there was a time where females got the role but something happened...

This notion that sex is sinful is strange.

And I think a damaging approach.

I think believers (generalisation warning) do not like sex education in school and there apparently is a relationship between early teenage pregnacy and lack of sex education...who would have thought???

And the use of the word Goddess...never in a religious role only associated with physical beauty...

I bet there many women who go to church with their partner and silently think "what a load of crap but if it keeps him happy (managable) I will not say a thing"...well they would know as they recognise bulldust much better than men more often than not.

I dont like the way religions treat women as inferior and seek to control them...in fact marriage should be banned and living together as couples banned to prevent one personality dominating the other.

If God has such a problem with sex you would think he could have implemented a better idea...given he had created humans in the begining why could he not keep doing that job...
Alex
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
Hi Jan
It is interesting to hear your view Jan it certainly helps understand you better.
Click to expand...

Hi Alex. I hope so.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
I gather from all you have said you think we are born with the belief in a God somewhat like an instinct.
Click to expand...

Something like that.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
And that science even confirms this fact for you in your belief.
Click to expand...

Without this belief, there is no science.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
That condition of, lets call it, instinct I suppose is possible given superstition seems to go back a long way for humans.

The first seems to be worship of the female, understandable given at a basic level the female is the most important part if human survival.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid you'll have to give more info. I'm not aware of this history.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
I understand that God must play a big role in your life and that your belief is so strong you can not, even as an exercise, consider a world without a God.
Click to expand...

No different to you.
The only difference is, I don't deny and reject it.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
It is difficult for an atheist to understand that a theist actually really believes what we see as nonsense.
Click to expand...

But it's not nonsense. You only pretend it is nonsense, because you are committed to denial and rejection of God.
Once you wake up and realize your foolishness, you'll be just fine.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
And so I think I can understand why you can not accept there could be someone who just does not believe in a God and that suggests your exposure to folk outside your world has been minimal or non existent.
Click to expand...

Oh but I do understand.
You just don't want to believe in God.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
I do think the superstition instict will leave humans in time as there is no need for it these days.
Click to expand...

I agree.
Unfortunately, I think eventually, the world will be overrun by real atheists. Then the shit will hit the fan.
People like yourself will realize what you have been fronting. :)

Anyway, I'll leave it there, as the rest of your post is neither here nor there.

jan.
 
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