Science vs Religion

Science is not the truth. Science is a way of discovering the truth.

How odd, that truth needs tecniques to be discovered

So, in that sense, the "truth" of science is just an illusion.

No, truth is truth. We use science to discover the truth.

"Truth" in the sense that I understand it is synonymous with "reality" - which is a state of being.

According to my lights as well.

Contrary to just "appearing" to be true, it is the state of "being" actual or true. Truth encompasses all things that possess actuality, existence or essence. Not just those things which have been subjected to the scientific method.

Correct. However, science provides proof.

Religion does not, and is irrational to boot. I do not need certainty. That is why I rely neither on science nor religion.
 
Xev,

***No, truth is truth. We use science to discover the truth.***

What science discovers is the appearance of truth... verisimilitude.
 
Cupid:
How does science discover the appearence of truth yet not truth itself?

And then, how can we discover truth?

Nelson: How does truth relate to love?
 
Nelson....

Love IS the Truth...

God's love? Or all love? And what is love? And would this make us dependant on the love of our fellow humans?

I do not think that would be a good strategy. Humans are fickle critters.

I answer this too... :
By looking at ourselves...

Observation, then. And how can we be sure that what we have learned is true?

Your theology, your 'system', is interesting. I do hope you keep developing it.
 
*Originally posted by Xev
Man, what is it with you and irony?
*

We're complete strangers.

*We 'believe' because we know that it works.*

You don't actually know, because you're just guessing or hoping that it works.
Basically, because there is the illusion that it works and because some people, whose stuff you've read, say it works, you assume it works.

*Should we always get what we want? Somtimes our wants can be destructive.*

Granted, yours might be, but for believers that isn't the case.

Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
(Psalms 37:4, KJV).

*Not getting what we want can lead to moral development.*

Let me see.
You're in dire need of food, so at that time, wanting food, i.e. starving to death will lead to moral development?
Your plane crashes in the Arctic, so at that time, wanting heat, i.e. freezing to death will lead to moral development?

I'll tell you what, you go ahead and develop morally.
I prefer to just get what I want.

*You need not describe the contents of your skull to us, Tony.*

I wasn't.
I was describing yours.

*By that logic, science is an excersize in futility.*

At least you see my point.

*you are alive now because of scientific advances, and you are using a computer..... *

I'm alive now because I was alive a minute ago and the minute before that, etc, and didn't die.
Scientific advances have nothing to do with my being alive, since people existed before there were any scientific "advances."

And, congratulations on your acute perspicacity.
I AM using a computer.
How can you tell?
Are you psychic?

*Your mindless attacks on everyone who disagrees are getting tiring. Why don't you post somthing of substance, and we can debate it?*

Well, first of all, we need to get to the point of you understanding that your knowledge of things is based on 1. things people told you and 2. they made those things up.
Once you get that, then we can debate some stuff.
As it stands, you actually still think that the stuff they told/tell you in school is true, even though it changes on a daily basis.

*Originally posted by blonde_cupid
If what you call "truth" is fleeting, with theories being discarded and/or replaced with other theories, then the truth that you speak of is synonymous with "verisimilitude" - which is not really the truth, but a quality. It is the quality of "appearing" to be true or real (a theory appears to be true and is accepted as true until the theory is proven to be false or a theory which appears more acceptable to mainstream science comes along).

So, in that sense, the "truth" of science is just an illusion.
*

That's it exactly.
Thanks, bc.

*Originally posted by Xev
How odd, that truth needs tecniques to be discovered
*

It doesn't.
Science only makes it seem that way.

*Correct. However, science provides proof.

Religion does not, and is irrational to boot. I do not need certainty. That is why I rely neither on science nor religion.
*

Science doesn't actually provide proof.
What science provides is red herrings, which are purported to be proof.

For example, science says that man is supposedly two million years old.
For proof, science offers a jaw and a knee joint located two miles or so apart, and at depths differing by several tens of feet, near Olduvai Gorge.

For any sane person that wouldn't even come close, but for science, that constitutes proof.

*How does science discover the appearence of truth yet not truth itself? *

That is called a lie, and science is full of them.
 
Xev,

God's love? Or all love? And what is love? And would this make us dependant on the love of our fellow humans?

Yes. Yes. God. No... because it's within us. And you need first to Love yourself, and then others (without being selfish, of course...). After you Love yourself and rediscover your Love, you can give it to other people.

It's all about rediscovering your true identity: Love... ;)

I do not think that would be a good strategy. Humans are fickle critters.

Not allways though... And once you learn what I stated above, you are on your way not to be... fickle critters... whatever is this... :p

Observation, then. And how can we be sure that what we have learned is true?

Because is within ourselves... If what you got in your Essence is not true, then, what's true??

Your theology, your 'system', is interesting. I do hope you keep developing it.

It's just naked Religion... is the interpretation of them... It's all of them without the cultural, language and all the background... ;)

Love,
Nelson
 
Xev,

Not getting what we want can lead to moral development.

You don't need to suffer to learn...
You can read the Bible... if you want...
Try to read Proverbs... it's the book of Wisdom written by Solomon.
The Book teaches lots of virtues and moral things... ;)

Well, first of all, we need to get to the point of you understanding that your knowledge of things is based on 1. things people told you and 2. they made those things up.
Once you get that, then we can debate some stuff.
As it stands, you actually still think that the stuff they told/tell you in school is true, even though it changes on a daily basis.

He has a point here... Science is allways developing... you can't rely in a Truth that is allways changing even though is progressing...

tony1,

1 Corinthians 13:4

"4 Love is patient, love is kind, and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant."

Sorry about that... but please, accept my criticism...

I feel you are being a little rude, impatient and arrogant with Xev...
If you want to preach the Gospel of Love and Compassion, do it by using it. Be patient and respect other people's beliefs. They carried those beliefs for a long time and just trying to destroy them, being them "right" or "wrong", is not good. Be humble and accept that each one have his or hers own belief, eventhough we both agree that our Religion is right.

Trying to change their beliefs by even insulting them, or insulting their beliefs just hurt them and cause a meaningless war that is worth nothing.

Love your "enemies".
(If they are your enemies, how can you Love them? They are NOT the enemy you are really trying to atttack... if you understand what I'm saying... ;))

Love,
Nelson
 
Tony:
You don't actually know, because you're just guessing or hoping that it works.
Basically, because there is the illusion that it works and because some people, whose stuff you've read, say it works, you assume it works.

It produces results, does it not? Do you think you could create a vaccine for polio with the New Testament?

Science and religion are separate, except when one tries to tread on the 'turf' of another, they do not conflict.

I'll tell you what, you go ahead and develop morally.
I prefer to just get what I want.

Mr.Id, eh?

I find morality more important than blind sensuality. To live with every want gratified the second you wish it, to live without morality, is to live the life of a brute.

You sound more like a Satanist than a Christian, and at least the Satanists do believe in morality.

I'm alive now because I was alive a minute ago and the minute before that, etc, and didn't die.
Scientific advances have nothing to do with my being alive, since people existed before there were any scientific "advances."

Why be so facetious and combative?
My point was that scientific advance allows medical advance.

Well, first of all, we need to get to the point of you understanding that your knowledge of things is based on 1. things people told you and 2. they made those things up.
Once you get that, then we can debate some stuff.
As it stands, you actually still think that the stuff they told/tell you in school is true, even though it changes on a daily basis.

Your arrogance is amusing, although your over-inflated ego is annoying.

I am a Skeptic. That means that I try (I try, I am not perfect) not to accept any proposition unless it has some sort of proof or validity. I question, I explore. I don't think anyone has a monopoly on the truth.

Not my teachers, not any scientist, not any human.

For example, science says that man is supposedly two million years old

No. Homo Sapiens is only about half a million years old.

For proof, science offers a jaw and a knee joint located two miles or so apart, and at depths differing by several tens of feet, near Olduvai Gorge.

Perhaps you could link to this? I am not sure of your argument.

Onto the affairs of better men:

Nelson:

Yes. Yes. God. No... because it's within us. And you need first to Love yourself, and then others (without being selfish, of course...). After you Love yourself and rediscover your Love, you can give it to other people.

You mean, that, the first thing a person has to do, is to love and accept themselves?

I er this or are you after the knowledge of God? Or both?agree somwhat. Have you reached this state?

It's all about rediscovering your true identity: Love...

I would say that things are a bit more complicated than that....certainly people love, but do they not hate, and feel indifference, as well?

I am not sure that people have only one true identity.

Because is within ourselves... If what you got in your Essence is not true, then, what's true??

How do we know what is in our essence? By looking into ourselves?

It's just naked Religion... is the interpretation of them... It's all of them without the cultural, language and all the background..

I would almost say that you are after the knowledge of God, not simply after religion.

(I am sorry if I ask too many questions of you)

However, not getting what one wants hurts, does it not? But suppose I want somthing that would hurt an innocent person?

In that case, I gladly accept the hurt. And perhaps Tony thinks that he never wanted somthing that could hurt another? I would be suprised.

Nor do I consider Tony an enemy. I think he is a jerk, but

*Leans over and whispers*

He keeps me honest. He is a grotesque caricature of a part of my personality that I do not like, and, seeing myself 'through a glass darkly' helps me avoid becoming like him.
 
Xev,

Science and religion are separate, except when one tries to tread on the 'turf' of another, they do not conflict.

I suggest you to look for the thread: " Science, Pscychology and Religion talk about the same thing... ".

You mean, that, the first thing a person has to do, is to love and accept themselves?

Yes... because if you don't Love not even yourself, how can you ever Love others? People that don't Love themselves and have relationships usually are abusers in them because they don't have any self-esteem. They don't Love themselves...

I er this or are you after the knowledge of God? Or both?agree somwhat. Have you reached this state?

Yes... I know by the Word that God made me to be like Him... so I discover Himself inside me, in the form of Love... for God is Love. He is within us... so discover my true self means discover God within me. The two things I'm after at, are the same... ;)

I would say that things are a bit more complicated than that....certainly people love, but do they not hate, and feel indifference, as well?

Yes... but that's because they didn't Loved first themselves. If they did, they would never hate, because they would never wanted to be hated... By Loving ourselves and learning to Love people Unconditionally, we spiritually grow up in the way of someday being like God. And we also improve our relationship with people... :D

I am not sure that people have only one true identity.

Depends of what you call identity. Everything depends of your concepts and perceptions. Each person is only one person. Looking like that we ought to find out that each one has only one identity. But "we" are allways changing. What it doesn't agree with a Truth. A Truth never changes.

We have a True identity that never changes (that is like God). But we are not aware of it. Is like what 1 Corinthians 13:12 says:

"12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but the I shall know fully just as I also been fully known."

We are like God. Our true identity. We now see it dimly... but someday we will see Him clearly with us. Never forget... God is Love. That's important. Our True identity is our Essence. What you know of yourself now with all your imperfections (I suppose you have...) it's just an imperfect copy of yourself. But you shall someday find your Essence.

Your knowledge that you have of yourself today is limited. Your Real you is perfect as God. You have this imperfect idea of yourself because of what Adam did in the Garden of Eden...
Well... that will take me lots of paragraphs to explain...
I suggest you to look up my thread: "For Christians of sciforum: "Lessons" for Christians." ;)

I'll talk about that later on that thread...

How do we know what is in our essence? By looking into ourselves?

Yes... and your Essence has no imperfection because it's made by the image of God, Love.
It's what the Bible means by Heart. It's your Essence.

I would almost say that you are after the knowledge of God, not simply after religion.

Sure! Religion is just one way to know God. It's easy if you feel that your Essence is Love. I felt, and that's why I know so much about Christianism even though I'm Christian since only a few months ago. It's in my Heart. So, I don't need the Bible to follow my path (even though it's good for remember...).

I am sorry if I ask too many questions of you

Don't feel sorry... I'm here to answer your questions. I Love you as I Love all people... it's a pleasure being helpful... :)

However, not getting what one wants hurts, does it not? But suppose I want somthing that would hurt an innocent person?

Yes, it does... and I experience this by myself...
Indirectly? It seems really rare... if you ask God something, He will give you what's better for you. And that usually don't hurt anyone...
For example... if I want a girl, but she's not for me. And if God have someone better for me, it'll hurt me... but when I get the right one, I won't be hurt anymore...
It's hard to live with God's will and your free will at the same time... That's the only thing that worries me... eventhough I know He wants the best for me...

Nor do I consider Tony an enemy. I think he is a jerk

If he doesn't follow my advice of following the Word... he will most likely be a jerk...

If you Love anyone, how can you consider someone your enemy? ;)

Love,
Nelson
 
*Originally posted by TruthSeeker
1 Corinthians 13:4

"4 Love is patient, love is kind, and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant."

Sorry about that... but please, accept my criticism...

I feel you are being a little rude, impatient and arrogant with Xev...
*

Actually, she's fun to discuss things with, so I don't think rudeness, impatience and arrogance apply here.
Secondly, we just "met" a few hours ago, so there is an initial period of adjustment as "we" ascertain each other's standpoint.

*If you want to preach the Gospel of Love and Compassion, do it by using it.*

So far, I've been trying to figure out her devotion to cthulhu.

*Be patient and respect other people's beliefs.*

YOU are telling ME to be patient?

*They carried those beliefs for a long time and just trying to destroy them, being them "right" or "wrong", is not good.*

I don't think Xev's old enough to have carried her beliefs for a "long time."

*Be humble and accept that each one have his or hers own belief, eventhough we both agree that our Religion is right.*

Are you falling in love with Xev now?
Granted, if her icon is her own picture, she's a good-looking woman, but being a demon-worshipper is trouble with a capital T.

*Trying to change their beliefs by even insulting them, or insulting their beliefs just hurt them and cause a meaningless war that is worth nothing.*

What insults are you talking about?
She's basing the direction of her life on a fictional character in a book.
One needs to examine that.

*Love your "enemies".
(If they are your enemies, how can you Love them? They are NOT the enemy you are really trying to atttack... if you understand what I'm saying... ;))
*

She's not my enemy, if YOU get MY drift.

*Originally posted by Xev
It produces results, does it not?
*

Results aren't the determining factor.
GOOD results are.

*Do you think you could create a vaccine for polio with the New Testament?*

Wouldn't need to.
If everyone believed, and acted on, the NT, there wouldn't be anyone around with polio.

*Science and religion are separate, except when one tries to tread on the 'turf' of another, they do not conflict.*

Science is forever treading on the turf of religion by claiming to deal with knowledge, hence the conflict.
OTOH, if science left the turf of religion, it would be nothing, so the conflict won't end for the time being.

*Mr.Id, eh?*

Only from your POV.
From God's POV, I'm just being obedient.

Let them shout for joy, and be glad, that favour my righteous cause: yea, let them say continually, Let the LORD be magnified, which hath pleasure in the prosperity of his servant.
(Psalms 35:27, KJV).

Why would I want to displease God?

*I find morality more important than blind sensuality. To live with every want gratified the second you wish it, to live without morality, is to live the life of a brute.*

Your POV is blocking your view.
No one is talking about blind sensuality, although that reveals more about you than you might want to admit.

No one is talking about living without morality, either.

I have repented, which means my mind is CHANGED.
Thus, whenever you try to interpret what I'm getting at, you arrive at the incorrect conclusion, because my mind is not the same as yours.

*You sound more like a Satanist than a Christian, and at least the Satanists do believe in morality. *

See what I mean about incorrect conclusions?

*Why be so facetious and combative?
My point was that scientific advance allows medical advance.
*

So far, that "advance" has resulted in a major reduction in life expectancy, which is slowly returning to somewhere near normal.

Just out of curiosity, how can one be facetious and combative at the same time?
That's like fighting a funny war.

*Your arrogance is amusing, although your over-inflated ego is annoying.*

Glad to be of some positive influence in your life.

*I am a Skeptic. That means that I try (I try, I am not perfect) not to accept any proposition unless it has some sort of proof or validity. I question, I explore. I don't think anyone has a monopoly on the truth.

Not my teachers, not any scientist, not any human.
*

The giant, glaring exception to that is that the scientific method is untouchable.
You revere that even more than cthulhu.

*No. Homo Sapiens is only about half a million years old.*

Aside from the fact that that statement is completely baseless, I guess I should have said "genus Homo" rather than "man."

But that opens that can of worms.
What's the evidence for a half million years of Homo Sapiens?

*Perhaps you could link to this? I am not sure of your argument. *

Why do I need to link to that?
Are you unaware of Leakey's "work?"

*Onto the affairs of better men:*

Ah, such subtle snideness.

*And perhaps Tony thinks that he never wanted somthing that could hurt another? I would be suprised.*

Nope.
Every time I eat meat, some animal has to die.
Not only that, I often eat fruits and vegetables while they are still COMPLETELY ALIVE.

*He keeps me honest. He is a grotesque caricature of a part of my personality that I do not like, and, seeing myself 'through a glass darkly' helps me avoid becoming like him.*

Aw, shucks.
Let me analyze that.

There is a part of you that you do not like.
I am a grotesque caricature of that part, therefore you like me, because, if you didn't, I would be exactly like that part of you that you do not like.

Thus, if you do not like me, then I am exactly like you, and you know I'm not.
 
Tony:
I don't think Xev's old enough to have carried her beliefs for a "long time."

*Chuckles* Thanks Tony. Correct too, I have only formally been an athiest since September.

Are you falling in love with Xev now?
Granted, if her icon is her own picture, she's a good-looking woman, but being a demon-worshipper is trouble with a capital T.

Silly, silly Tony. It's not my picture. I look more like Velma from Scooby Doo than I do Xenia Seeberg.

I do believe that Nelson is safe from my feminine wiles. (If indeed I possessed such :D)

If everyone believed, and acted on, the NT, there wouldn't be anyone around with polio.

Polio is caused by a virus. What has it to do with the NT?

Science is forever treading on the turf of religion by claiming to deal with knowledge, hence the conflict.
OTOH, if science left the turf of religion, it would be nothing, so the conflict won't end for the time being.

Well, is religion testable? Hardly. So, this is really science's turf.

That is, on could say that there are different forms of knowledge.

I have repented, which means my mind is CHANGED.
Thus, whenever you try to interpret what I'm getting at, you arrive at the incorrect conclusion, because my mind is not the same as yours.

Indeed. I interpreted

I'll tell you what, you go ahead and develop morally.
I prefer to just get what I want.

As saying that moral development was unnecessary. My apologies.

As for blind sensuality, ah, I wish!

So far, that "advance" has resulted in a major reduction in life expectancy, which is slowly returning to somewhere near normal.

Pardon?

The giant, glaring exception to that is that the scientific method is untouchable.
You revere that even more than cthulhu.

No, it's not. The scientific method fails when applied to philosophy.

And would you please capitalize the 'c'?

What's the evidence for a half million years of Homo Sapiens?

Carbon dating. Do you want a link?

Why do I need to link to that?
Are you unaware of Leakey's "work?"

I was unsure of what you meant about jaws and knee joints located far apart. I've not studied the discovery of austrailopithicus in detail.

Nope.
Every time I eat meat, some animal has to die.
Not only that, I often eat fruits and vegetables while they are still COMPLETELY ALIVE.

So then we agree that somtimes our wants are best left unfulfilled?

Nelson:

Yes... because if you don't Love not even yourself, how can you ever Love others? People that don't Love themselves and have relationships usually are abusers in them because they don't have any self-esteem. They don't Love themselves...

Aye.

Yes... I know by the Word that God made me to be like Him... so I discover Himself inside me, in the form of Love... for God is Love. He is within us... so discover my true self means discover God within me. The two things I'm after at, are the same..

Ah, so that is how you interpret the whole 'in his image' thing? That humans are created in God's <i>moral</i> image, and not in God's <i>physical</i> image?

Interesting.

For example... if I want a girl, but she's not for me. And if God have someone better for me, it'll hurt me... but when I get the right one, I won't be hurt anymore...
It's hard to live with God's will and your free will at the same time... That's the only thing that worries me... eventhough I know He wants the best for me...

So, God gives you what you ask for, but only if you are asking for the right thing?

*Sighs* But then how can we know what the right thing is?

If you Love anyone, how can you consider someone your enemy?

Well I love my friends, and I consider Bin Ladin my enemy. It's possible.
 
tony1,

Actually, she's fun to discuss things with, so I don't think rudeness, impatience and arrogance apply here.

Really? Ask her...

So far, I've been trying to figure out her devotion to cthulhu.

Honestly... is not what it seems...

YOU are telling ME to be patient?

Yes... you are a little bit agressive... in words...

don't think Xev's old enough to have carried her beliefs for a "long time."

She may have them more deep in herself than you expect...

Are you falling in love with Xev now?

Don't even answer...
I Love people Unconditionally... But of course I Love Melissa. She is great. And only because I Love her, this doesn't mean I should forget everybody else...

Granted, if her icon is her own picture, she's a good-looking woman, but being a demon-worshipper is trouble with a capital T.

You... physically attracted like that? You should review your conception of Love...

What insults are you talking about?

Why don't you ask her? Doesn't she called you arrogant too? Ask her how is she feeling about the things you are telling her...

She's basing the direction of her life on a fictional character in a book.
One needs to examine that.

Agree with you... but be patient.
We are all children... threat everyone as Children of God...

She's not my enemy, if YOU get MY drift.

I know... but don't be rude with her...

Science is forever treading on the turf of religion by claiming to deal with knowledge, hence the conflict.

Science DEALS with knowledge. Religion deals with Wisdom. It's the whole concept of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil...


Ask her how she feels... ;)

Love,
Nelson
 
Xev,

But then how can we know what the right thing is?

By asking God. Even better... ask for Wisdom. Then, you'll allways know what's better for you... ;)
He Loves when we ask for Wisdom... :)

Well I love my friends, and I consider Bin Ladin my enemy. It's possible.

You consider him your enemy because you don't Love him. If you Loved him, you would not be able to consider him your enemy.
I'm not saying that it's easy to Love people like him... but it's possible when you see that they only hurt people because he was first hurt by someone else...

Love,
Nelson
 
No competion here, science deals with facts!!

religion deals with faith!

religion brought the dark ages, science brought us the Reinances

religion seeks to destroy knowledge, science only seeks to learn.

Lets suppose were the world would be today if, countries were run by the church.

no computers, no lights, no automobiles, no writing pens, no penicilin. What we would have is, deseases, poverty, missory, and even more wars.

Funny was it not this way in the middle ages?
 
Tony1

Last time you looked, you probably looked at a non-believer.
I'm not certain even you know what point you are trying to make with that comment. I know that you as an egocentric being have invented rules to define a believer and the non. You've never mentioned those rules only vaguely hinted. I think you lack conviction to sit down and pound out these rules. Fullfilling that goal you have at least in vanity neglected to share these rules.

Bill Gates is insane?
Way to go! In perfect Tony1 form: ignore the idea and add attempt at joke.

The ergot fungus is more widespread than I thought.
Study only applies to that which does not change.
Trying to study that which changes constantly is an exercise in futility.
Let's inspect fungus. We study change, otherwise we would lack need for study. Science books change, history progresses and Literature gains new words and works. The bible is the bible, no room for change. If this were not true then we should expect that text books would instead of changing, stay the same.

Wouldn't need to.
If everyone believed, and acted on, the NT, there wouldn't be anyone around with polio.
Yes! If everyone believed, and acted on, the NT, there wouldn't be anyone around with polio. I argue that the "with polio" is superfluous informationin that last statement.
 
You ask your god for the truth? You accept as truth something you get from someone else with no reason? Cool! Dude, have I got a story for you...!
 
blond_cupid:

<i>"Truth" in the sense that I understand it is synonymous with "reality" - which is a state of being. Contrary to just "appearing" to be true, it is the state of "being" actual or true.</i>

Then how can we ever hope to distinguish truth from appearance? Surely everything we perceive is only "appearance", in your terms, and we can't transcend that to get to anything real. What a depressing thought?

If "Love IS truth", how can you be sure it's not just the appearance of truth, like everything else?
 
Godless,

No competion here, science deals with facts!!

religion deals with faith!

Religion deals with faith... until what you believe turns out into a
fact... ;)

Science is based on illusions... it's why it's always changing. The Universe is allways changing. Why study something that is so unstable? It's lose time... as it will change tomorrow. The reality we have today will soon change... so why study it so much...?

Better look for a Truth... ;)

Lets suppose were the world would be today if, countries were run by the church.

Then... the world would be really peaceful, as the Essence of the church is Love and all other virtues... :)
It would be a very good world...

religion seeks to destroy knowledge, science only seeks to learn.

Really? Read Proverbs... it's the Book of Wisdom... ;)
And it teaches most of the virtues the whole Bible does...

no computers, no lights, no automobiles, no writing pens, no penicilin. What we would have is, deseases, poverty, missory, and even more wars.

It would be great if we didn't have all this pollution, noise, crowded cities all around the world, confusion, fear, war... I'll stop... it's making me sick... :(

Diseases...? We would cure all of them with faith... with faith we can even raise the dead! How would we have fear of simple diseases!?!?
Poverty...? If everyone were Christian, everyone will help each other! Christians never let their brothers when they need their help! Christians are all very giving, very generous!
?? Did you mean misery? Because if you meant, you can see the answer for that above...

MORE WARS!!!
What the heck...
We can destroy the world with Nuclear Bombs and you are worried about what war?!?!?


Christianism is based on Peace and ultimatly in...
LOVE

Love your enemies!

READ THE BIBLE!!!!

God! I never seen something like that...

religion brought the dark ages, science brought us the Reinances

What do you consider "dark ages" and "renascence"?
??? :confused:

What... do you like the way things are going nowdays?
We ARE in the "dark ages"...!!
One dummie press a button and...

BOOOOOMMM!!

You are in pieces... ;)

I don't understand your conceptions...

Destroy them and begin everything again, please... ;)


Adam,

You ask your god for the truth? You accept as truth something you get from someone else with no reason?

God IS the Truth... READ my other posts please...


James R,

Then how can we ever hope to distinguish truth from appearance?

Read my posts please...

Surely everything we perceive is only "appearance", in your terms, and we can't transcend that to get to anything real.

Look for the Truth within yourself. The only Truth you know that is true is from yourself.

If "Love IS truth", how can you be sure it's not just the appearance of truth, like everything else?

The same as above... ;)


Please you guys... read my posts... ;)

Love,
Nelson
 
Been there done that!!

I've read the bible son!! in fact I can tell you of allllll it's inconsistencies!!! fact, i've posted them here many, many times, I don't think I need to post them again.

Thruthseeker, funny name for someone who does not believe science!!.

If were not for science we wouldn't be communicating, if were not for science chances are most of us would have not survived many desceases, traumas, accidents, births.

The bible is a fairy tale, one which unfortunately can't be proven.

Show us emperical evidence of your god, show us emperical evidence of the supernatural, show me that god actually exists outside your very own mind!!.

You can't!! fact is you've got to "believe" in god, and it takes "faith" to believe that your assertions are true!!.

Science on the other hand, deals with facts, theories become realities, things change yes, there's no such thing as an absolute.

And it's a good thing things change, or otherwise scientist wouldn't be able to develop better drugs, science wouldn't discover anything new, scientists would be able to develop better technologies.

If you don't like it so much, stay in your cave!! sell the damn computer, "it was developed by science!" sell your freaking car, it took science to create it!, stop using electricity, It took science to discover this too!!.

Facts is fact, science is the ultimate search for facts!!

Faiths is belief in the assertions of others, which claim to have knowledge, in certain areas of the realm of supernatural.

faith is subjective at it's purest scence!!.

science is objective, which it takes a precedence at observation of problems, or sircumstances.

Read your history, find out what religion has done to the world, how many religious wars have their been?

religion--burning witches, Fact--they were innocent women.
The Inquisition--the slaughter of innocent men& women forced to believe in Jesus!!

Yea!! nice world this would be!! if churches ran countries!!

Why the hell do you think the Immigrants came to this freaking country?
Religious prosecution!!! Yo Idiot!!
 
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